US based vendors want an additional £10k owing to Brexit!
Discussion
Hi chaps,
A bit of a grumble as it were and a gauge of opinions.
I've mentioned in another thread that our house purchase is proceeding ok. Mortgage approved, survey done (just waiting for the report - pre Brexit valuation btw). However, I've just had some (bad) news from the estate agent.
The owners of the house are based in the US and owing to recent events with the weak £ against the $ they state they will be losing too much money and as such request an additional £10k on top of the asking price to "comfortably proceed"!
My understanding of the Brexit situation was that house prices would be expected to drop a touch. As such, for me to pay more for something that is now worth less doesn't strike me as a particularly good deal.
We got a reasonable price on the house (just under asking price), but certainly not enough for me to 'happily' pay an additional 10k. Moreover, the mortgage is already arranged for the required amount and I'm getting stung with significant SDLT as well so 10k logistically will be hard to find.
The house currently has tenants in it. The vendors state if the sale doesn't go through, they'll continue to rent it out. Fair enough for them.
It's a nice house, a very nice house in fact with much (epic) garage potential. However, I can't justify another 10k especially in the current climate.
What do you guys reckon?
Grumble grumble.
A bit of a grumble as it were and a gauge of opinions.
I've mentioned in another thread that our house purchase is proceeding ok. Mortgage approved, survey done (just waiting for the report - pre Brexit valuation btw). However, I've just had some (bad) news from the estate agent.
The owners of the house are based in the US and owing to recent events with the weak £ against the $ they state they will be losing too much money and as such request an additional £10k on top of the asking price to "comfortably proceed"!
My understanding of the Brexit situation was that house prices would be expected to drop a touch. As such, for me to pay more for something that is now worth less doesn't strike me as a particularly good deal.
We got a reasonable price on the house (just under asking price), but certainly not enough for me to 'happily' pay an additional 10k. Moreover, the mortgage is already arranged for the required amount and I'm getting stung with significant SDLT as well so 10k logistically will be hard to find.
The house currently has tenants in it. The vendors state if the sale doesn't go through, they'll continue to rent it out. Fair enough for them.
It's a nice house, a very nice house in fact with much (epic) garage potential. However, I can't justify another 10k especially in the current climate.
What do you guys reckon?
Grumble grumble.
Thanks chaps, appreciate the opinions. 
It's difficult as it's a nice house. My gut feeling is 'not a chance'. My wife echoes the sentiment.
I've gone through the building survey report. Nothing too terrible has come up. Roof will need re-slating at some point in the next couple of years (~£10k cost) but otherwise nothing of major concern or unexpected given the age of the house.
There's a lot to like about the house, but it's not perfect.
It's difficult as it's a nice house. My gut feeling is 'not a chance'. My wife echoes the sentiment.
I've gone through the building survey report. Nothing too terrible has come up. Roof will need re-slating at some point in the next couple of years (~£10k cost) but otherwise nothing of major concern or unexpected given the age of the house.
Piersman2 said:
Go back and politely tell them that due to the Brexit vote and market uncertainties etc... the house is worth £10K less than when your offer went in, and that all things considered you're prepared to keep to the existing offer to facilitate a quick sale for them. If they hang around though, you may not be able to proceed at this price in the near future.
I've certainly been concerned about the potential drop in value. However, from my point of view, the commitment to the offer has been made and even if the value was to suffer in the short term, one has to take the rough with the smooth.There's a lot to like about the house, but it's not perfect.
Thank you all for taking the time to reply, your opinions are appreciated. 
It will be interesting to see how they react to this as 10k will probably need to be spent to reslate the roof in the next couple of years. In view of this (and the current housing uncertainties) they should be desperate to sell.
The vendor has been a bit bothersome during the entire situation tbh. As mentioned they currently rent the house out and kept pushing to get the mortgage/survey done asap as they had a pencilled in completion date of end of July (presumably when the tenancy ends). Their fall back position has always been 'we'll just continue to rent it out instead'.
Indeed, though it seems to me they would rather sit on it as a rental than sell at this price and that's their fall back/default position.
If that's the case, so be it. We'll simply continue to rent and take our time to look for another house. By that point perhaps prices will drop a touch, we'll have more saved up for a deposit and perhaps buy something bigger/better.
Again, thanks for your opinions chaps, I'll be speaking to the estate agent tomorrow.
Cudd Wudd said:
I agree with all of the above.
I'd also be emphasising the roof point picked up on the survey as further evidence as to why any price change should be in your favour.
Absolutely. I'm glad I did the full survey in the end, gives me some ammo.I'd also be emphasising the roof point picked up on the survey as further evidence as to why any price change should be in your favour.
It will be interesting to see how they react to this as 10k will probably need to be spent to reslate the roof in the next couple of years. In view of this (and the current housing uncertainties) they should be desperate to sell.
Ean218 said:
I would have a word with the Estate Agent. They will have seen a marked reduction in activity since the vote and may even have had a deal or two unravel already.
They will therefore be more on your side than usual and if you indicate that you were actually thinking about lowering your offer or walk away then the agent will do everything in his power to sort the vendor out.
I spoke to them on Monday when they informed me of the developments. I could hear the frustration in the estate agent's voice.They will therefore be more on your side than usual and if you indicate that you were actually thinking about lowering your offer or walk away then the agent will do everything in his power to sort the vendor out.
The vendor has been a bit bothersome during the entire situation tbh. As mentioned they currently rent the house out and kept pushing to get the mortgage/survey done asap as they had a pencilled in completion date of end of July (presumably when the tenancy ends). Their fall back position has always been 'we'll just continue to rent it out instead'.
FrankAbagnale said:
Above £2m prices were softening long before brexit.
Perhaps I need to increase my budget and try and pick up a bargain! AyBee said:
Can I have £10k please?
They've basically just asked you for money because of their personal situation - the fact that they are converting £ to $ is of no relation to the house sale. I'd tell them to FO and I suspect they'll back down.
Indeed. I've read the emails from the vendor to the estate agent (they forwarded them to me) and the content is much about not foreseeing the leave vote (and the effect on the £), potential conversion to dollars, US tax obligations and them mitigating their position. They seem aware that we may very well pull out.They've basically just asked you for money because of their personal situation - the fact that they are converting £ to $ is of no relation to the house sale. I'd tell them to FO and I suspect they'll back down.
DonkeyApple said:
walm said:
Foxtons issued a massive profit warning two days ago.
Point to that and drop your offer by £10k.
The vendors are utter morons.
Absolutely. You have the actual advantage. They are overseas and selling into what is now an uncertain market. They were too dumb to hedge their fx risk, that's their fault and they will pay for it. And if you fancy a punt you can also make them pay an additional idiot tax for trying it on. I'd knock your offer down and sweat them out a little bit. Point to that and drop your offer by £10k.
The vendors are utter morons.
If that's the case, so be it. We'll simply continue to rent and take our time to look for another house. By that point perhaps prices will drop a touch, we'll have more saved up for a deposit and perhaps buy something bigger/better.
Again, thanks for your opinions chaps, I'll be speaking to the estate agent tomorrow.
ColinM50 said:
So if the deal doesn't go ahead and they're happy to carry on renting the house out, will they expect the tenants to pick up their f/x "losses"? I think not. As others have said, call their bluff and say no. But it's easy for us to say, we haven't got your wife bleating and moaning at you every day
She's been cool and quite adamant that we shouldn't pay more to be fair. We both like the house however if it doesn't happen it doesn't happen. We're both quite realistic.walm said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
It's a negotiation. The other side have pointed out quite reasonably that the background to the transaction has changed and they want to renegotiate. Whether or not OP agrees he needs to deal with the situation. At the end of the day these late stage rengotiations are far from uncommon and it's just a matter of working through it.
Realistically OP has three options, because just saying "no" is a high risk strategy,
a) Find a strong counter-argument to support the original deal, put that argument to the other side and see if the deal can stick, or
b) Show understanding and agree to meet them half way, or
c) Just suck it up - if the pain of having to start again would be too great.
Disagree.Realistically OP has three options, because just saying "no" is a high risk strategy,
a) Find a strong counter-argument to support the original deal, put that argument to the other side and see if the deal can stick, or
b) Show understanding and agree to meet them half way, or
c) Just suck it up - if the pain of having to start again would be too great.
The vendors need to make a strong argument to raise the price. They are the ones putting the whole chain at risk, not the OP.
FX moves is NOT any sort of argument at all.
And you missed:
d) Lower your offer because consumer confidence is shot, jobs are more at risk and housing transactions will dry up.
There's no major chain. We currently rent and are looking to buy. As mentioned previously, if the sale falls through we'll continue to rent and take our time in finding another house.
I'll be speaking to the estate agent tomorrow. Will keep you guys updated.
walm said:
As a follow up...
i.e. if you are moving to Zimbabwe it's probably sensible to keep your savings in GBP!
Keeping this as my back up option for the time being. i.e. if you are moving to Zimbabwe it's probably sensible to keep your savings in GBP!
Tallow said:
Again, to take this back to the OP's first post, I would suggest that the American vendors are in a similar situation: They would be much better off looking to close as soon as they can so they have something liquid to work with. If it was me I would remind them that if the deal goes south or there is protracted negotiation, they have the most to lose. They would be well advised to push for completion as fast as possible - both because of this and because of potential uncertainty in the property market over the longer term.
I'd be half tempted to threaten a reduced offer in view of the roof situation but tbh, I just want things to proceed and am not interested in rocking the boat.
I'll let you guys know how I get on.
I've spoken to the estate agent this morning. He was understanding (and a little annoyed by the entire situation truth be told). I explained to him about the roof and stated that as a gesture of goodwill we would be happy to honour our original offer.
Apparently they'll let me know how the vendors want to proceed by the end of the day.
I'll be more annoyed if they want to proceed as it suggests to me they are chancers. If they do pull out it suggests either genuine concerns on their part. I'll lose the money for the survey but not a massive amount in the scheme of things.
Will keep you chaps updated. Thanks again for all those who have contributed to the thread.
Apparently they'll let me know how the vendors want to proceed by the end of the day.
I'll be more annoyed if they want to proceed as it suggests to me they are chancers. If they do pull out it suggests either genuine concerns on their part. I'll lose the money for the survey but not a massive amount in the scheme of things.
Will keep you chaps updated. Thanks again for all those who have contributed to the thread.
Update:
Estate agent has been in touch and reportedly the vendor has replied that they genuinely don't think they can afford to sell it at the current asking price. Here is the email from the estate agent and the vendor that has been forwarded to me:
I'll email them on Monday to confirm 100% that we won't be paying more.
You win some, you lose some.
Estate agent has been in touch and reportedly the vendor has replied that they genuinely don't think they can afford to sell it at the current asking price. Here is the email from the estate agent and the vendor that has been forwarded to me:
estate agent said:
> As per your discussion with my colleague, please see the email below which we have received from the vendor.
>
> I can confirm the vendor has, this afternoon, made contact with our Lettings Department in regards to listing the property for rent if required.
>
> I understand your reluctance to offer a further £10,000, however, if you could outline your final stance on this matter to enable us to take this to the vendor and move things forward swiftly. If there is any further flexibility on your offer, please do let me know.
>
> Kind regards
>
> I can confirm the vendor has, this afternoon, made contact with our Lettings Department in regards to listing the property for rent if required.
>
> I understand your reluctance to offer a further £10,000, however, if you could outline your final stance on this matter to enable us to take this to the vendor and move things forward swiftly. If there is any further flexibility on your offer, please do let me know.
>
> Kind regards
vendor said:
I understand their position - it's highly regrettable that the pound has fallen so sharply and with the announcement by the Bank of England that interest rates will be cut to stabilize the economy, there is no chance of short term recovery.
As we are US tax payers, and the IRS has a punitive approach to fx 'gains', we are uniquely disadvantaged by the surprise fall. It's effectively wiped thousands from our equity (and we'd already factored in a big tax bill at the 1.46 rate - now at 1.33). We'd also factored the roof into our asking price.
I feel for the buyers, as they, like us have been affected by circumstances outside their control. I understand their reluctance to up the price, but we wanted to give them an opportunity to proceed nonetheless.
Please share the contents of this email with my apologies.
We'll be putting it into the rental market straightaway.
Oh well. *shrug*As we are US tax payers, and the IRS has a punitive approach to fx 'gains', we are uniquely disadvantaged by the surprise fall. It's effectively wiped thousands from our equity (and we'd already factored in a big tax bill at the 1.46 rate - now at 1.33). We'd also factored the roof into our asking price.
I feel for the buyers, as they, like us have been affected by circumstances outside their control. I understand their reluctance to up the price, but we wanted to give them an opportunity to proceed nonetheless.
Please share the contents of this email with my apologies.
We'll be putting it into the rental market straightaway.
I'll email them on Monday to confirm 100% that we won't be paying more.
You win some, you lose some.
^
Just in the process of emailing them.
For whatever reason, they seem intent on pulling out and putting up for rent again. Whether this is owing to greed, stupidity or ignorance is unclear. Regardless, the outcome is the same.
Final email to the estate agent this morning asking for clear confirmation either way.
Edit to add, these are the original emails the estate agent forwarded to me from the vendor.
t?
Just in the process of emailing them.
For whatever reason, they seem intent on pulling out and putting up for rent again. Whether this is owing to greed, stupidity or ignorance is unclear. Regardless, the outcome is the same.
Final email to the estate agent this morning asking for clear confirmation either way.
Edit to add, these are the original emails the estate agent forwarded to me from the vendor.
vendor said:
We've woken up to yet more weakening of the pound, which regrettably directly impacts our tax position in the US (it's a complex IRS piece of tax legislation, but essentially the value of the usd vs sterling at the time of sale directly affects what we owe).
We can no longer afford to sell at that price and are seriously considering withdrawing and continuing to rent it.
I'm sorry to put the buyer in this position, but we'd need another £10,000 in order to comfortably proceed.
Please can someone call (not email) him to explain this.
We can no longer afford to sell at that price and are seriously considering withdrawing and continuing to rent it.
I'm sorry to put the buyer in this position, but we'd need another £10,000 in order to comfortably proceed.
Please can someone call (not email) him to explain this.
vendor said:
We appreciate your comments regarding the volatility of the housing market, and have considered these, however the value of the pound for us has considerable ramifications for us, most obviously for our US tax obligations (the current fluctuation has increased our tax bill massively) but also the value of the proceeds of the sale should we decide to convert to USD. It's just not a risk we feel comfortable taking at the moment, as with the English conveyancing system's protracted nature, there is additional potential downside FX risk for us - we have no idea where it will settle on completion date.
I realise the buyer may pull out entirely, but I'd like to offer him the opportunity continue to proceed at the higher price. Please offer him our apologies - we did not foresee a 'leave' vote and its resultant financial consequences, but like everyone else, we need to take action to mitigate our position.
Still bullsI realise the buyer may pull out entirely, but I'd like to offer him the opportunity continue to proceed at the higher price. Please offer him our apologies - we did not foresee a 'leave' vote and its resultant financial consequences, but like everyone else, we need to take action to mitigate our position.
t?Edited by g3org3y on Monday 4th July 09:18
It's official. Vendors have pulled out.
I've contacted the mortgage company and the solicitor. Ball ache but these things happen. Wife and I are annoyed but we'll get over it. We'll be keeping an eye on the housing market over the upcoming months. It'll be interesting to see how things pan out.
Thank you to all who have contributed to the thread.
I've contacted the mortgage company and the solicitor. Ball ache but these things happen. Wife and I are annoyed but we'll get over it. We'll be keeping an eye on the housing market over the upcoming months. It'll be interesting to see how things pan out.
Thank you to all who have contributed to the thread.
Bit of an update:
As mentioned the house was put on the rental market (with the same estate agents who were doing the sale). It has been advertised from the day of the deal falling through.
Looks like they've not had any interest as it's still on the rental market and today they've dropped the rent by £100/month (now £1650/month).
Oh well.
As mentioned the house was put on the rental market (with the same estate agents who were doing the sale). It has been advertised from the day of the deal falling through.
Looks like they've not had any interest as it's still on the rental market and today they've dropped the rent by £100/month (now £1650/month).
Oh well.
Piersman2 said:
Just sit tight and wait for the phonecall. I waited out my seller for 3 months back in 2008 before he came back to me and asked if my offer was still on the table.
IMVHO, the house in question doesn't really lend itself to the rental market. It'll be interesting to see how things progress.Jockman said:
Is your offer still on the table?
If the estate agent contacts me, perhaps. But it will be notably reduced. Firstly for the inconvenience caused to me (both money and time) and secondly...because...er...brexit. 
20k off the original offer should just about cover it. 
I thought it would be nice to give an update to this thread.
After the Bexit/10k debacle, the vendors did indeed put the house back on the rental market.
It took them a few months to find tenants and had to drop the rent by around £100-150/month (sorry can't remember exactly but recall the drop on Rightmove and feeling a bit pleased about it).
When idly browsing Rightmove a couple of months ago I noticed the house had come back on the market. Now completely empty, no tenants in situ and ready for sale.
To add context, when we were looking at this a couple of years back, it was listed as offers in excess of 550k. We had the offer of 545k accepted.
This time round they have listed it as 'guide price' 595k! This lasted 1 month. At the beginning of October, the price was dropped to 575k. Seemingly no takers as from the start of Nov they have dropped down to 550k.
Absolute chancers at 595k.
With the current downturn in the housing market, I will be interested to see if they continue to struggle and further drop the price. Karma? We'll see...
After the Bexit/10k debacle, the vendors did indeed put the house back on the rental market.
It took them a few months to find tenants and had to drop the rent by around £100-150/month (sorry can't remember exactly but recall the drop on Rightmove and feeling a bit pleased about it).
When idly browsing Rightmove a couple of months ago I noticed the house had come back on the market. Now completely empty, no tenants in situ and ready for sale.
To add context, when we were looking at this a couple of years back, it was listed as offers in excess of 550k. We had the offer of 545k accepted.
This time round they have listed it as 'guide price' 595k! This lasted 1 month. At the beginning of October, the price was dropped to 575k. Seemingly no takers as from the start of Nov they have dropped down to 550k.
Absolute chancers at 595k.
With the current downturn in the housing market, I will be interested to see if they continue to struggle and further drop the price. Karma? We'll see...
As an aside we ended up buying a house in a different (much better) location and are delighted with it. That's not to say that we wouldn't have been happy in the house that is the subject of this topic, but the one we've bought is notably better. All worked out in the end it seems
cat with a hat said:
Hoofy said:
g3org3y said:
As an aside we ended up buying a house in a different (much better) location and are delighted with it. That's not to say that we wouldn't have been happy in the house that is the subject of this topic, but the one we've bought is notably better. All worked out in the end it seems
Do a pisstake offer, £20k under the current asking price. Say it's owing to Brexit.
it would be great if they dropped the price slightly more and then you did that.
I'm keeping an eye on it.
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