Pension consolidation and management
Discussion
Hi all,
I have a couple of tiny workplace/personal pensions from previous employments that are currently being ignored, probably incurring charges. I've ignored them because they're probably <£20k combined and all were setup by employers with me just nodding and signing my name. Having no understanding of them makes me feel detached from them, and pensions in general.
However, I want to bring them back under my control, and combine them. Because of the low-value, I want to self-manage, and not pay fees for somebody else to choose my funds for me. The aim now is not to maximise return or minimise risk, just to bring all the schemes into one place under my control, for that feeling of ownership and responsibility. I'd be happy to chuck the lot at Fundsmith for a while until I learn more. Is a SIPP the best wrapper for funds?
I realise there may be penalties for rolling three small pensions into one, but unless I get visibility of them they're not doing anything useful anyway. I'm hoping that seeing them in action will force me to grow them with further contributions.
So, I need a recommendation for a good online self-managed SIPP provider with low fees for small pots, but all the whistles and bells and admin tools I could hope for on the online portal so I don't have to move providers again for the forseeable future. I know HL are popular here, but they seem quite pricey. Is it worth it?
And a final newbie question if I may, because Google hasn't helped: Do all providers allow access to all funds, or could I find myself locked out of certain funds by the SIPP provider I choose?
Thanks Finance!
I have a couple of tiny workplace/personal pensions from previous employments that are currently being ignored, probably incurring charges. I've ignored them because they're probably <£20k combined and all were setup by employers with me just nodding and signing my name. Having no understanding of them makes me feel detached from them, and pensions in general.
However, I want to bring them back under my control, and combine them. Because of the low-value, I want to self-manage, and not pay fees for somebody else to choose my funds for me. The aim now is not to maximise return or minimise risk, just to bring all the schemes into one place under my control, for that feeling of ownership and responsibility. I'd be happy to chuck the lot at Fundsmith for a while until I learn more. Is a SIPP the best wrapper for funds?
I realise there may be penalties for rolling three small pensions into one, but unless I get visibility of them they're not doing anything useful anyway. I'm hoping that seeing them in action will force me to grow them with further contributions.
So, I need a recommendation for a good online self-managed SIPP provider with low fees for small pots, but all the whistles and bells and admin tools I could hope for on the online portal so I don't have to move providers again for the forseeable future. I know HL are popular here, but they seem quite pricey. Is it worth it?
And a final newbie question if I may, because Google hasn't helped: Do all providers allow access to all funds, or could I find myself locked out of certain funds by the SIPP provider I choose?
Thanks Finance!
Thanks.
For anyone else stumbling across this thread later, I found another good comparison of brokers.
http://monevator.com/compare-uk-cheapest-online-br...
EDIT: and another http://www.comparefundplatforms.com/
For anyone else stumbling across this thread later, I found another good comparison of brokers.
http://monevator.com/compare-uk-cheapest-online-br...
EDIT: and another http://www.comparefundplatforms.com/
Edited by TartanPaint on Sunday 12th March 15:33
I have a plan now, and would greatly appreciate any feedback and a good old sanity check, because I’m learning as I go here…
I have opened an account with AJ Bell/Youinvest.
I filled in the forms for HL based on PH's recommendation, and was very tempted by the tools and excellent looking website, but changed my mind at the last minute. Youinvest website looks ok and is easy to navigate and find funds etc. It charges 0.25% vs 0.45% for HL. Youinvest do charge per trade, but I think my number of trades will be minimal, just one per month at £1.50 per trade for funds, and while that’s quite high as a % of my monthly contribution, I think over the year I’ll beat HL costs, especially as my pot grows.
There are definitely a few even cheaper options (e.g Close Bros, 0.25% with no trade fees for funds), but I discounted a few with confusing websites or limited fund choice.
Anyway, I’ll see how I get on with youinvest and move in a year when I have more experience.
SIPP:
I’ve submitted the details of my old workplace pensions (only about £23k total, sadly, but no exit or transfer fees to pay!) to Youinvest and I think those are now in the process of transferring.
I’m about 27 years away from my target retirement of 65, so I’ve got some aggressive contribution to do. I’ll have some property income to help in retirement, and I guess some unquantifiable inheritance at some point, but this SIPP needs to be given some attention.
Because I don’t know what I’m doing, and don’t intend to gamble beyond the basic acceptance of stock market risks, I plan to select a basic “couch potato” mix of a few index funds (still researching the fine details of this), and I plan to pay into only one of these funds each month, to keep trade fees to a minimum. I’ll pay into the lowest % value in the mix to rebalance the split each month.
Any salary bonuses or pay rises will up contributions, rather than improve my lifestyle. In theory.
Any advice on a blend of funds would be appreciated, but I accept that’s investment advice territory, and beyond what can reasonably be expected for free on a forum with limited information given. I believe the basic idea of “couch potato” is (approx your age %) domestic bonds, a domestic index tracker and a world index tracker, and a few smaller embellishments I’ve noted by inspecting e.g. Vanguards Target Retirement fund make-up. I haven’t read any books/advice that have been specifically updated post-Brexit; does this basic mix still hold true, or would I be better tracking e.g. S&P500 instead of FTSE?
Now, timing. It looks lousy to me. I’ll be buying in at 1yr highs, but I think I should just suck that up and get in ASAP for the long term, and rebalance bonds/index funds as necessary.
I will also be doing this old workplace pension consolidation for my wife. I’ll set her up with her own youinvest account, and put everything into Vanguard Target Retirement 2050 for ease of maintenance, at least for a year or so until I get the hang of this. I might try a different SIPP provide for her so we can compare.
ISA:
I’ve also opened an ISA, and will move the full £15k allowance from my cash emergency savings account into this. For the ISA, I was thinking Vanguard LifeStrategy 80% or 100%. I know I shouldn’t really gamble with an emergency fund, but even if its value falls in the short term, I can live with that. It won’t be touched unless I have bigger problems than how much I’d lose by cashing it in.
After that I probably won’t be using my annual ISA allowances, because I have no short/medium term savings goals at the moment. I will be splitting my monthly income between SIPP and mortgage overpayments. I’m doing this without really knowing which is best. It feels like the pension contributions will work harder than the mortgage overpayments in the long run, but lots of advice says to pay off your debts first. I will do a bit of both until I figure out how to build a spreadsheet that compares outcomes in the long term. I’d like to have some science behind that choice, but in the mean time all advice is most welcome.
Junior ISAs:
I’ll open a couple of these for the kids (age 3 and 1) and do much the same as my ISA, but with modest contributions each year towards university costs etc. Their grandparents are also contributing annually and they suggested premium bonds for their gifts, but I can hopefully do better than that in a stocks ISA. I accept the risk that it’s their money, not mine, when they turn 18. I’ll have to trust them and advise as best I can when the time comes.
Any glaring holes (edit: other than not starting this when I was 18!) or total misunderstandings in my plans? Thanks in advance, Finance!
I have opened an account with AJ Bell/Youinvest.
I filled in the forms for HL based on PH's recommendation, and was very tempted by the tools and excellent looking website, but changed my mind at the last minute. Youinvest website looks ok and is easy to navigate and find funds etc. It charges 0.25% vs 0.45% for HL. Youinvest do charge per trade, but I think my number of trades will be minimal, just one per month at £1.50 per trade for funds, and while that’s quite high as a % of my monthly contribution, I think over the year I’ll beat HL costs, especially as my pot grows.
There are definitely a few even cheaper options (e.g Close Bros, 0.25% with no trade fees for funds), but I discounted a few with confusing websites or limited fund choice.
Anyway, I’ll see how I get on with youinvest and move in a year when I have more experience.
SIPP:
I’ve submitted the details of my old workplace pensions (only about £23k total, sadly, but no exit or transfer fees to pay!) to Youinvest and I think those are now in the process of transferring.
I’m about 27 years away from my target retirement of 65, so I’ve got some aggressive contribution to do. I’ll have some property income to help in retirement, and I guess some unquantifiable inheritance at some point, but this SIPP needs to be given some attention.
Because I don’t know what I’m doing, and don’t intend to gamble beyond the basic acceptance of stock market risks, I plan to select a basic “couch potato” mix of a few index funds (still researching the fine details of this), and I plan to pay into only one of these funds each month, to keep trade fees to a minimum. I’ll pay into the lowest % value in the mix to rebalance the split each month.
Any salary bonuses or pay rises will up contributions, rather than improve my lifestyle. In theory.
Any advice on a blend of funds would be appreciated, but I accept that’s investment advice territory, and beyond what can reasonably be expected for free on a forum with limited information given. I believe the basic idea of “couch potato” is (approx your age %) domestic bonds, a domestic index tracker and a world index tracker, and a few smaller embellishments I’ve noted by inspecting e.g. Vanguards Target Retirement fund make-up. I haven’t read any books/advice that have been specifically updated post-Brexit; does this basic mix still hold true, or would I be better tracking e.g. S&P500 instead of FTSE?
Now, timing. It looks lousy to me. I’ll be buying in at 1yr highs, but I think I should just suck that up and get in ASAP for the long term, and rebalance bonds/index funds as necessary.
I will also be doing this old workplace pension consolidation for my wife. I’ll set her up with her own youinvest account, and put everything into Vanguard Target Retirement 2050 for ease of maintenance, at least for a year or so until I get the hang of this. I might try a different SIPP provide for her so we can compare.
ISA:
I’ve also opened an ISA, and will move the full £15k allowance from my cash emergency savings account into this. For the ISA, I was thinking Vanguard LifeStrategy 80% or 100%. I know I shouldn’t really gamble with an emergency fund, but even if its value falls in the short term, I can live with that. It won’t be touched unless I have bigger problems than how much I’d lose by cashing it in.
After that I probably won’t be using my annual ISA allowances, because I have no short/medium term savings goals at the moment. I will be splitting my monthly income between SIPP and mortgage overpayments. I’m doing this without really knowing which is best. It feels like the pension contributions will work harder than the mortgage overpayments in the long run, but lots of advice says to pay off your debts first. I will do a bit of both until I figure out how to build a spreadsheet that compares outcomes in the long term. I’d like to have some science behind that choice, but in the mean time all advice is most welcome.
Junior ISAs:
I’ll open a couple of these for the kids (age 3 and 1) and do much the same as my ISA, but with modest contributions each year towards university costs etc. Their grandparents are also contributing annually and they suggested premium bonds for their gifts, but I can hopefully do better than that in a stocks ISA. I accept the risk that it’s their money, not mine, when they turn 18. I’ll have to trust them and advise as best I can when the time comes.
Any glaring holes (edit: other than not starting this when I was 18!) or total misunderstandings in my plans? Thanks in advance, Finance!
Edited by TartanPaint on Sunday 12th March 15:37
Ginge R said:
Without risk, there would be no variable or even high returns. We'd have a stagnant economy too; why invest in fledgling companies if there's no added reward for the added risk..?
Instead, we'd all be in a Corbyn-Bond, where everyone gets a whopping 2% like it or not, and our money is spent for us by the apparatchik. Sounds scary, but the closer we creep towards a cashless society, the more likely it becomes.
How right you are, comrade Ginge.Instead, we'd all be in a Corbyn-Bond, where everyone gets a whopping 2% like it or not, and our money is spent for us by the apparatchik. Sounds scary, but the closer we creep towards a cashless society, the more likely it becomes.
I feel a bit arrogant for deciding to go it alone and self-manage in interesting times. Fingers crossed... if it doesn't work, I'll be giving Fiveraday a go, I promise!
Still deciding what to do in terms of funds. I've still got time as the old pension cash will take another week or so to appear in the new SIPP.
No conclusions yet, but some interesting observations about my own behaviour and thinking:
1) I cannot stop seeing patterns where rationally I know none exist. I cannot stop mentally extrapolating the averages off the right-hand side of the graph. I've concluded that the FTSE is definitely too high, and will drop again. I've concluded that GBP is temporarily undervalued and will rise again. I have ZERO experience or knowledge from which to draw these conclusions. It's just obvious from the graphs, init? Lesson: Humans are dumb at pattern recognition. 3 reds, so it must be a black next, right?
2) I cannot easily disconnect short term timing from long term thinking. It should not matter over 25 years what the hell the FTSE is doing this year, but I still cannot bring myself to click "buy" on a FTSE index tracker fund at such a high point. I can't help thinking about the long term impact of any head start I would get by waiting for it to drop before buying. Of course, this is crystal ball stuff, but the thought of being 20% down after 1 year is nightmare stuff. I guess psychologically I need to see a year 1 increase to justify the decisions I've had to make about my family's future. Year 2 can do what the hell it likes because that's just fluctuations. So mentally, I am prepared for fluctuations long-term, but I can't seem to deal with the thought of a negative year in year 1. Crazy, huh?
3) Related to the last point. Bonds are such low return at the moment, I should definitely only have 20% max at this stage. On the other hand, equities are expensive right now, so I should definitely buy 100% bonds and wait for a good time to buy equities. This is stressful. I hate the sense of anxiety that comes from operating outside my comfort zone where permanent damage might be done.
4) As mentioned previously, I'm flip-flopping hourly between thinking fund managers are geniuses and worth every penny to remove this stress, and thinking they cannot possibly know the future and are working only for themselves, and I'd be mad to trust them with my future (no offense to any reading... I'm sharing my crazy thoughts for your amusement, that's all).
Even having read every "idiot's guide to SIPPs" on the entire interwebs, I'm still almost certain to get it hopelessly wrong.
No conclusions yet, but some interesting observations about my own behaviour and thinking:
1) I cannot stop seeing patterns where rationally I know none exist. I cannot stop mentally extrapolating the averages off the right-hand side of the graph. I've concluded that the FTSE is definitely too high, and will drop again. I've concluded that GBP is temporarily undervalued and will rise again. I have ZERO experience or knowledge from which to draw these conclusions. It's just obvious from the graphs, init? Lesson: Humans are dumb at pattern recognition. 3 reds, so it must be a black next, right?
2) I cannot easily disconnect short term timing from long term thinking. It should not matter over 25 years what the hell the FTSE is doing this year, but I still cannot bring myself to click "buy" on a FTSE index tracker fund at such a high point. I can't help thinking about the long term impact of any head start I would get by waiting for it to drop before buying. Of course, this is crystal ball stuff, but the thought of being 20% down after 1 year is nightmare stuff. I guess psychologically I need to see a year 1 increase to justify the decisions I've had to make about my family's future. Year 2 can do what the hell it likes because that's just fluctuations. So mentally, I am prepared for fluctuations long-term, but I can't seem to deal with the thought of a negative year in year 1. Crazy, huh?
3) Related to the last point. Bonds are such low return at the moment, I should definitely only have 20% max at this stage. On the other hand, equities are expensive right now, so I should definitely buy 100% bonds and wait for a good time to buy equities. This is stressful. I hate the sense of anxiety that comes from operating outside my comfort zone where permanent damage might be done.
4) As mentioned previously, I'm flip-flopping hourly between thinking fund managers are geniuses and worth every penny to remove this stress, and thinking they cannot possibly know the future and are working only for themselves, and I'd be mad to trust them with my future (no offense to any reading... I'm sharing my crazy thoughts for your amusement, that's all).
Even having read every "idiot's guide to SIPPs" on the entire interwebs, I'm still almost certain to get it hopelessly wrong.
Small update.
I'm starting to regret setting up my accounts with AJ Bell / Youinvest...
They're an information black hole. Nothing I do seems to get a confirmation email to say it worked. Everything seems to take an age to actually happen.
Pensions are supposedly transferring into the SIPP. I understand that can take a while, but I haven't got so much as a confirmation email to say that's in progress. There's nothing on the portal showing the status either, nor any hint that the transfers exist. I requested an update using the message system. No answer. Looks like I'm going to have to actually pick up a telephone to find out what's going on...
I transferred cash to a JISA yesterday (debit card transaction) and it hasn't appeared yet, nor has it left my bank account. They say it can take a day (which is ridiculous for a debit card payment, but ok). Nor do I have any email record of the transaction taking place. Nor does the pending transaction show on the portal anywhere. Nor could I change the billing addressee from my daughter's name to mine (why would they think a JISA holder is making their own payments in?)
The portal is riddled with mistakes and also shows error pages very often. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt on the errors because of the time of year, but the broken features are just poor implementation.
I have zero confidence that anything is actually happening. It might well all be fine in the background, but the customer/user experience is p*ss poor so far.
I'm holding on to the hope that this is all one-time setup stuff, and that the monthly management tasks later will be more straight forward. I think I'll be looking to try somewhere else in a year regardless.
I'm starting to regret setting up my accounts with AJ Bell / Youinvest...
They're an information black hole. Nothing I do seems to get a confirmation email to say it worked. Everything seems to take an age to actually happen.
Pensions are supposedly transferring into the SIPP. I understand that can take a while, but I haven't got so much as a confirmation email to say that's in progress. There's nothing on the portal showing the status either, nor any hint that the transfers exist. I requested an update using the message system. No answer. Looks like I'm going to have to actually pick up a telephone to find out what's going on...
I transferred cash to a JISA yesterday (debit card transaction) and it hasn't appeared yet, nor has it left my bank account. They say it can take a day (which is ridiculous for a debit card payment, but ok). Nor do I have any email record of the transaction taking place. Nor does the pending transaction show on the portal anywhere. Nor could I change the billing addressee from my daughter's name to mine (why would they think a JISA holder is making their own payments in?)
The portal is riddled with mistakes and also shows error pages very often. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt on the errors because of the time of year, but the broken features are just poor implementation.
I have zero confidence that anything is actually happening. It might well all be fine in the background, but the customer/user experience is p*ss poor so far.
I'm holding on to the hope that this is all one-time setup stuff, and that the monthly management tasks later will be more straight forward. I think I'll be looking to try somewhere else in a year regardless.
I'm still finding Youinvest portal to be rather rubbish.
No actions seem to generate a confirmation of any sort, either on the portal or by email. And anything "in progress" like cash transfers inwards, you just have to hope and pray the action you performed was successful and wait till the next day to see if anything happens. 1 out of a handful has failed because I couldn't tell whether to resubmit (and risk two transactions occurring). It's absolutely cr*p to be honest.
I did get a response from Youinvest support about my pension transfers. They haven't even started yet. I'm pretty furious about that.
Despite filling in all the forms online during the SIPP applciation AND following the instructions they sent to fill in further forms online (the same information again), they actually need a paper form filled in too. Which is fair enough (HL require a paper signature too), except Youinvest don't send you the form you need when you open the SIPP (they claim they did, but I've checked... they actually sent a link to download the paper form, but the link is broken and takes you to the online form instead, which I did complete and submit, thinking that's what they wanted. Total cr*p, and a waste of 6 weeks.
So, all in all, they're not winning my affections, but I'm stuck with them now.
Pension transfers still pending.
I've put the kids' JISA funds into LifeStrategy 80 for now. I'll shift it to LS60,40,20 over the years as they get closer to receiving them.
I'm about to put my ISA allowance into LifeStrategy 20, but I can't work out from the website how to pay the trade fees from separate cash, not from my ISA allowance, or whether I can pay more than the £20k into the ISA to cover fees. It's just not clear how to do this, so I've had to go back to support for help. Again, not impressed with the lack of usability. I did a quick Google search and it seems HL have all the help you could need on how to do this if you're an HL customer, but Youinvest don't make it clear.
No actions seem to generate a confirmation of any sort, either on the portal or by email. And anything "in progress" like cash transfers inwards, you just have to hope and pray the action you performed was successful and wait till the next day to see if anything happens. 1 out of a handful has failed because I couldn't tell whether to resubmit (and risk two transactions occurring). It's absolutely cr*p to be honest.
I did get a response from Youinvest support about my pension transfers. They haven't even started yet. I'm pretty furious about that.
Despite filling in all the forms online during the SIPP applciation AND following the instructions they sent to fill in further forms online (the same information again), they actually need a paper form filled in too. Which is fair enough (HL require a paper signature too), except Youinvest don't send you the form you need when you open the SIPP (they claim they did, but I've checked... they actually sent a link to download the paper form, but the link is broken and takes you to the online form instead, which I did complete and submit, thinking that's what they wanted. Total cr*p, and a waste of 6 weeks.
So, all in all, they're not winning my affections, but I'm stuck with them now.
Pension transfers still pending.
I've put the kids' JISA funds into LifeStrategy 80 for now. I'll shift it to LS60,40,20 over the years as they get closer to receiving them.
I'm about to put my ISA allowance into LifeStrategy 20, but I can't work out from the website how to pay the trade fees from separate cash, not from my ISA allowance, or whether I can pay more than the £20k into the ISA to cover fees. It's just not clear how to do this, so I've had to go back to support for help. Again, not impressed with the lack of usability. I did a quick Google search and it seems HL have all the help you could need on how to do this if you're an HL customer, but Youinvest don't make it clear.
It took a few attempts to get a straight answer from AJ Bell/Youinvest on the ISA fees:
Trade fees will be deducted from your £20,000 ISA balance. You cannot maintain a separate pot of cash from which you pay your fees. You cannot oversubscribe the ISA to cover fees.
That's rather cr*p!
According to their website, HL allow you to buy using your full £20,000 allowance and pay your trade fees from a separate cash account.
I'm going to calm down a bit and consider whether to just move to HL, or throw the whole bloody lot at Ginge and get back to my day job...
From http://www.hl.co.uk/investment-services/isa/freque...
Trade fees will be deducted from your £20,000 ISA balance. You cannot maintain a separate pot of cash from which you pay your fees. You cannot oversubscribe the ISA to cover fees.
That's rather cr*p!
According to their website, HL allow you to buy using your full £20,000 allowance and pay your trade fees from a separate cash account.
I'm going to calm down a bit and consider whether to just move to HL, or throw the whole bloody lot at Ginge and get back to my day job...
From http://www.hl.co.uk/investment-services/isa/freque...
HL FAQs said:
How can I pay fees from outside my ISA?
If you choose not to hold cash within your account or do not wish to use cash from within a tax wrapper (ISA/SIPP) to pay fees, you can choose to have all fees collected from the Fund & Share Account.
To choose this option:
Go to the 'Account Settings' section of your account
Select the ‘Fee and Minimum Cash Balance’ tab
Follow the proceeding onscreen instructions
Click on 'Fee collection options'
Follow the onscreen instructions to edit your fee collection method
If you choose not to hold cash within your account or do not wish to use cash from within a tax wrapper (ISA/SIPP) to pay fees, you can choose to have all fees collected from the Fund & Share Account.
To choose this option:
Go to the 'Account Settings' section of your account
Select the ‘Fee and Minimum Cash Balance’ tab
Follow the proceeding onscreen instructions
Click on 'Fee collection options'
Follow the onscreen instructions to edit your fee collection method
Edited by TartanPaint on Thursday 13th April 16:50
I've left my SIPP, ISA and a couple of JISAs with YouInvest, after a rocky start with their transfer service and some website annoyances.
I don't need to interact with it much. Most of my frustrations have evaporated over time without me moving to HL in a rage. I guess I got used to it.
I don't need to interact with it much. Most of my frustrations have evaporated over time without me moving to HL in a rage. I guess I got used to it.
Well, they're doing artificially well right now because the funds are doing well. +10% roughly. That's partly the funds and partly lucky entry timing. I have no expertise in choosing funds and didn't choose the timing either, so I could just as easily be 10% down by now. 
But it's a long game. Watch the man, not the dog, as they say.
But it's a long game. Watch the man, not the dog, as they say.
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