Extension plans (one day a build thread!) - thoughts
Discussion
We are planning to extend our house in the next two years to accommodate our expanded family. My uncle is an architect and drew us up some basic ideas based on our spec:
- at least one extra bedroom
- a hallway
- a good entertaining space with views to the garden to be able to see the children when cooking etc.
- Space and lots of it
Would welcome any thoughts - sorry for the numerous pics, these were our current choices for downstairs and up.
We also have a semi-converted loft space i.e. dumping ground with an office desk, which could be fully converted to a bedroom or even become the master suite.
- at least one extra bedroom
- a hallway
- a good entertaining space with views to the garden to be able to see the children when cooking etc.
- Space and lots of it
Would welcome any thoughts - sorry for the numerous pics, these were our current choices for downstairs and up.
We also have a semi-converted loft space i.e. dumping ground with an office desk, which could be fully converted to a bedroom or even become the master suite.
Thanks guys.
Answers:
We are fully aware of the scale and potential cost of the project. We love the house and don't plan to move so return is not an issue at present, although I think we would see the cost back in the value increase.
We live in a popular Hertfordshire town called Harpenden. House demand is constant here as it's 25 mins from London and has great schools. To upgrade to a new house with the same level of space as these plans would likely be £200k+ plus stamp and fees.
We bought this place for £260k in 2008, it's now "valued" at £350k and mortgage is currently £200k.
I am no builder or structural engineer so would value your guidance on what the biggest obstacles are. What would you change to reduce the complications? Scrap the hallway?
Answers:
We are fully aware of the scale and potential cost of the project. We love the house and don't plan to move so return is not an issue at present, although I think we would see the cost back in the value increase.
We live in a popular Hertfordshire town called Harpenden. House demand is constant here as it's 25 mins from London and has great schools. To upgrade to a new house with the same level of space as these plans would likely be £200k+ plus stamp and fees.
We bought this place for £260k in 2008, it's now "valued" at £350k and mortgage is currently £200k.
I am no builder or structural engineer so would value your guidance on what the biggest obstacles are. What would you change to reduce the complications? Scrap the hallway?
barryrs said:
First port of call for me would be to get your neighbors on side as i would say the works will trigger the requirement for a party wall agreement. If my neighbors approached me with similar plans i would be looking for a commitment to monitor any potential structural movement and perhaps an insurance policy that would encompass any potential damage to my property.
Construction wise if you have accepted the scale of the build then i dont think there is much you can do to simplify it. A lot will depend on how much support that existing end wall is providing to the roof, ceilings and first floors.
Thanks for the reply.Construction wise if you have accepted the scale of the build then i dont think there is much you can do to simplify it. A lot will depend on how much support that existing end wall is providing to the roof, ceilings and first floors.
Funnily enough our attached neighbours (it's a semi cottage) are planning exactly the same sort of thing so we have discussed the need for insurance and agreements to be put in place.
Busa mav said:
Be interested to see if there is a neighbouring property close by to the right.
If so your 2 storey ambitions are likely to take a hit.
There is. Our outer wall is about 3m width from her garage and then the rest of her house is the garage width away.If so your 2 storey ambitions are likely to take a hit.
The previous owners of our house gained planning permission for a 2 storey extension before we bought it so was I naively thinking we would have no problem? I guess it depends if our neighbour kicks up a stink?
Mark thanks for the comments.
It's funny what happens when a completely fresh set of eyes has a gander as I completely agree with your point about the views - this was a priority for my wife (keeping an eye on the children etc.
I think part of the reason for the kitchen being laid out as it is presently is compatibility with the upstairs plan. We did discuss the positioning of the dining table for a while last night but my wife had the final say in that she wanted the whole area to be one big entertaining zone i.e. it would not be a formal dining area.
The question of the downstairs toilet also played a part i.e. cost implication of moving it from it's current position - although moving it to the hallway obviously frees up the garden wall space for a full-length bi-fold job.
I agree with your comment about the middle room being a bit wasted in that it is pretty much a carbon copy of the front room (except it will be for the kids and the front room is the adult zone).
Fortunately we are only at planning stage so the internal layout can be moved around to our hearts content.
Food for thought.
A few other questions to throw out there:
1. Anyone got a roll-top bath and is it totally impractical? The main bathroom will largely be used by the kids but my wife has always wanted one
- my worry is if we have to put a shower in too to counter the impractical bath the bathroom will feel cramped. No shower and we will end up with the kids in our en-suite!
2. Entrance to our en-suite from the walk in wardrobe seems logical but without a window is there a risk of creating damp clothes?
3. I have the front lounge marked as an adult zone containing some decent tech - does it look a big enough space to fit a projector and possibly a wood-burner?
It's funny what happens when a completely fresh set of eyes has a gander as I completely agree with your point about the views - this was a priority for my wife (keeping an eye on the children etc.
I think part of the reason for the kitchen being laid out as it is presently is compatibility with the upstairs plan. We did discuss the positioning of the dining table for a while last night but my wife had the final say in that she wanted the whole area to be one big entertaining zone i.e. it would not be a formal dining area.
The question of the downstairs toilet also played a part i.e. cost implication of moving it from it's current position - although moving it to the hallway obviously frees up the garden wall space for a full-length bi-fold job.
I agree with your comment about the middle room being a bit wasted in that it is pretty much a carbon copy of the front room (except it will be for the kids and the front room is the adult zone).
Fortunately we are only at planning stage so the internal layout can be moved around to our hearts content.
Food for thought.
A few other questions to throw out there:
1. Anyone got a roll-top bath and is it totally impractical? The main bathroom will largely be used by the kids but my wife has always wanted one
- my worry is if we have to put a shower in too to counter the impractical bath the bathroom will feel cramped. No shower and we will end up with the kids in our en-suite!2. Entrance to our en-suite from the walk in wardrobe seems logical but without a window is there a risk of creating damp clothes?
3. I have the front lounge marked as an adult zone containing some decent tech - does it look a big enough space to fit a projector and possibly a wood-burner?
shimmey69 said:
personally if possible i would add a small enclosed front porch so you can then get rid go dividing wall on front sitting room, as that hall will be a big wasted space, same as middle room, open the whole down stairs out as far as possible as it will make feel a lot bigger, if you want to have a private room then you can get nice full height room dividers to assist in.
The porch will stop the walking straight into the room feel.
Hi ShimmeyThe porch will stop the walking straight into the room feel.
It's something we have discussed to death but ultimately both agreed we have both always wanted a nice hallway to give the house a touch of gravitas. It is a compromise given the size of the house but I think is in keeping with a Victorian style house. If it was totally open plan I wouldn't know how to fill it to avoid making it a bit empty!
SAB888 said:
If you are removing the gable end wall, what is supporting the floors, roof etc? There are no beams shown and with it being open plan, no walls to support beams anyway.
I have posed the question to my architect but I assume the reason is these are planning plans and building regulation plans are to come?SAB888 said:
Yes, they are sketch or Planning drawings as you say and don't show detailed info. I was just wondering how it was going to be done. I suspect large steel beams, but was wondering how it was going to work out, (supporting the floors, roof etc, because I suspect your floor joists go from side to side and would be supported on the gable end wall).
Hi, yes the architect confirmed these are just planning drawings and that support will be achieved using large steel RSJ's.Our house won't be falling down!
Hopefully.
Mini-update:
Our plans have been approved by St Albans DC so we can start taking the next steps. We had a builder come round to guestimate based on the planning drawings and as B7NNS / Muncher suggested, we are well into the £100-150k region...
However, research on houses sold in our town revealed that to purchase a house with the equivalent floor space would likely cost us £400k (over and above the value of our current house) - 3 beds in Harpenden average £600k!
So we are going to take deep breaths and 'invest' in our lovely little home (soon to be big hopefully!).
Our plans have been approved by St Albans DC so we can start taking the next steps. We had a builder come round to guestimate based on the planning drawings and as B7NNS / Muncher suggested, we are well into the £100-150k region...
However, research on houses sold in our town revealed that to purchase a house with the equivalent floor space would likely cost us £400k (over and above the value of our current house) - 3 beds in Harpenden average £600k!
So we are going to take deep breaths and 'invest' in our lovely little home (soon to be big hopefully!).
mattdaniels said:
How is it going to compare against other properties in the road? ie. is there a danger you are "over building" the property?
Matt, our street has a hotch-potch of properties - all shapes and sizes. The original houses are mostly Edwardian terraces but there are also 60s and 70s builds further down.A fair few have had extensions done too.
The good news is the attached property to ours has also had planning permission for a similar scheme so we at least retain a sense of proportion with our neighbours.
And yes, it is daunting!
BoRED S2upid said:
Can't believe your removing the gable wall and extending rather than a normal side 2 story extension or a wrap around extension the cost will be dramatically more expensive.
We definitely need a build diary if your still going down this route it's a massive structural job. Make sure it's tendered correctly and the builders have experience of such a job.
Oh don't worry, there will be a diary for sure!We definitely need a build diary if your still going down this route it's a massive structural job. Make sure it's tendered correctly and the builders have experience of such a job.
Should be getting a structural engineer out in the next couple of weeks to assess the likely work required.
It did throw me when the builder said we would effectively be demolishing 75% of the external house...
BUT, how else do we achieve the internal requirements? A wrap around or bolt on extension won't give us the open space we want.
barryrs said:
Just another potential issue thats worth checking now.
Whats the depth of the sewer alongside the house and does it serve any other dwellings?
The depth of the sewer may well dictate the depth of your footing as you wont be allowed to apply any loading onto it.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Pages 7 & 8 have some handy illustrations.
Heh, heh....the sewer will have to be moved as it currently runs along the alleyway which will become internal space. Fortunately it doesn't serve any other houses.Whats the depth of the sewer alongside the house and does it serve any other dwellings?
The depth of the sewer may well dictate the depth of your footing as you wont be allowed to apply any loading onto it.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Pages 7 & 8 have some handy illustrations.
Another expensive job!
BoRED S2upid said:
Yes it will you can still chop great holes in the gable wall use massive lintels to give you openings between the existing rooms and the new rooms in the extension but you leave enough of the existing house intact not to have to demolish 75% of it.
Similar effect massive cost savings and you can remain living in the house as the wrap around gets built and is watertight before the holes are cut through. With this plan your going to have to move out it's such a big structural job.
Ok, well that sounds promising. I have emailed my architect about this so he can raise the options with the structural engineer. Will wait and see what they come up with.Similar effect massive cost savings and you can remain living in the house as the wrap around gets built and is watertight before the holes are cut through. With this plan your going to have to move out it's such a big structural job.
P.S. you can tell already I am a complete novice at this sort of thing so fresh perspectives are very useful and appreciated. Hoping to learn a lot along the way!
SAB888 said:
Why don't you just build over the sewer rather than divert it?
Is it a good idea to have the drainage running under the internal section of the house? The run is unreliable and blocks quite often - having drain covers under the floorboards would be a nightmare in that situation, no?AC43 said:
Edited by AC43 on Saturday 18th October 10:33
Edited by AC43 on Saturday 18th October 10:33
Edited by AC43 on Saturday 18th October 10:34
I tend to agree with the bathroom, particularly given we will have our own en-suite - it seems a bit unfair to impose our aesthetic wishes on the children in what will effectively be their bathroom!
Re the loft, that is the long term plan but unfortunately funds do not permit at present. We will be boarding it out and doing some preparatory work up front.
Just to move this on a bit I now have planning permission and building plans drawn up and have the build out to tender. Final plan below (except I want to move the door to bedroom 3 to the top of the stairs as it wastes room space being in the middle):
We are resigned to the fact that this is likely to be a £150k+ job but it would likely cost at least twice the price to move in the area we live. We love the house and want to stay so are willing to go through the pain of effectively rebuilding the damn thing!
Thoughts?
We are resigned to the fact that this is likely to be a £150k+ job but it would likely cost at least twice the price to move in the area we live. We love the house and want to stay so are willing to go through the pain of effectively rebuilding the damn thing!
Thoughts?
So bit of a reality check as our first quote came in on Saturday morning...(caveats - he prices to worst-case / top-spec scenario so there is room for savings; Harpenden-premium presumably applied)...
£160k exc VAT (not including kitchen and fitting of, furnishings, cost of moving out etc..)
Stroke-inducing.
£160k exc VAT (not including kitchen and fitting of, furnishings, cost of moving out etc..)
Stroke-inducing.
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