Deal Fallen through...such a stupid system.

[russy01]

Spent the last few months negotiating really hard to get our perfect 4 bed detached village house - needs lots of work but is 99% what we have been looking for.

Recently sorted a deal, got the solicitors involved and have the mortgage all sorted. All was well until some random chap who viewed the house ages ago has been and crashed the party and offered 10k more. He has made his intentions clear that he is willing to pay over and above asking price and is backed with his parents cash.

Vendors whilst apologetic have pulled out and pretty much said they want more money and I have to pay up and join a bidding war with this chap if we want the house. We're pretty stretched and can't afford much more.

Pissed off doesn't explain it, sorting out particulars over the weekend and deciding what colour to paint what and now we are back to the beginning!

Really pissed off with how people can do this, I now have to pay Natwest and my solicitor £300-£500 for the work they have already done and I don't get the house I want.

A deal should be a deal.


Sorry pointless thread, just need to get it off my chest.

[russy01]

Joey Ramone said:

You have my sympathies. However, I'm a firm believer that when one door closes, another one opens. It may well be that this wasn't meant to be your perfect house, and the latter is still waiting for you to discover it.

I'm a firm believer of this. Something similar happened with my first house and it ended up as a blessing.
However in my area (sleepy Somerset villages) each village only really has a handful of houses, so when they come up you have to be on it - it took 12months of looking for this one to pop up!

So I really am a bit annoyed, but oh well.....watch this space it could out to be a blessing yet.

[russy01]

untruth said:

Which village? A Somerset export wants to know! (Sympathies etc!)

Wells area.

[russy01]

untruth said:

russy01 said:

Wells area.

Ah yes, grew up In Westbury and family still live in Westbury & Wookey Hole respectively. You're right, there's approximately 1/2 a house a year available per village and often they're entirely unsuitable. I wish you luck!

Just been browsing rightmove and there is a half decent looking 4 bed in Westbury sub mendip, might go have a nose.
We're looking at the wookeys/Westbury/Easton/Priddy etc - we'll just have to keep an eye out and hope our buyer (buying to let) is happy to hold on for a bit.

[russy01]

Dave_ST220 said:

Yes it's st, I've got the t shirt of losing money etc etc. However, sit back, can you afford to go higher? If they only come up once in a while sometimes it's better to swallow pride & up your price. Only you can decide.

My old family home was completed on a hand shake. The bloke was offered more but said he had already done a deal. That doesn't happen any more that's for sure!!!

Good luck.

We went round last week for a final look round the house, wanted to measure up a few things to get an idea for the renovation. We ended up staying for an hour, chatting about this and that, moaning about the agent etc - the chap had even started writing a manual for all the heating and aircon systems for me.
We got on really well (turns out we are similar age to their children etc) and left with a handshake, so I really thought in this eventuality they'd honour our deal - especially seeing to this point we were the only offer etc. It shows what a few quid can do to somebody.

As for paying more for it. I'll be honest, we are stretched by 10k more than I want to be as it is. I also have had to cut my DIY fund down to £8k for the short term AND we are getting married in August - so there are just no pennies left in the piggy bank. Plus I don't think it's worth more, we'll just have to sit tight.

[russy01]

RobDickinson said:

The UK system is st.

Here both parties agree and sign a contract, with conditions that need to be met, with severe penalties on both sides if someone pulls out. Checks can take a week, whole process can be done in 10 days. Much better.

Agreed, much better.

[russy01]

Part of me is a massive vengeful bd, so I'm already ready plotting plans to piss them off.

But at the same time part of me wants to just move on and find a new pad and let them have it - if it's not supposed to be etc.

The thing which pisses me off the most however is the "system". I've been shafted twice now.

Buying my first house - I made a deal and started proceedings, the gov had dropped stamp duty for my price level to get people buying. So all was looking good and I'd be £2k better off.
Several weeks in some tt come along and offered more all in cash, the solicitors wanted the extra cash as all proceeds were going to charity (deceased estate). So they cancelled on me and went with this bloke, the bloke disappeared and they never heard from him again - however the solicitors insisted they give this bloke 6 weeks to turn up with the cash.
So 6 weeks later they hadn't heard a thing and we got the thumbs up again, however by this date the gov. brought stamp duty back in, so it cost me another £2k. To top it off 10weeks later the gov. decided it was too early to bring stamp duty back so they dropped it again.
So this knobs offer cost me £2k! I see his companies vans about from time to time, going to let the tyres down one day!

[russy01]

scenario8 said:

I must have forgotten a time when a stamp duty holiday period was halted and then re-instated. Without sounding too pompous, I don't have much delaings at that kind of value. When did that happen exactly?

(It sounds like you had a problem with politicians during that period mostly. Surely you can understand the logic behind the solicitors' actions?).

I was 21 and it was my first house, so only £175k. It was all the way back in early 2010. I understand why they do it, but it certainly didn't help me, it would have really helped me and 20 yr old GF at the time who were desperately saving to make it work. Nowadays it seems like first time buyers get deposits chucked at them by the gov, all we wanted was £1750 stamp duty back!

As for the solicitor, yes I agree why they did it but it was handled very badly. We had a mortgage offer sorted and were ready to go at Full asking price. They then had one phone call from a local builders firm who wanted to buy it to sell on who offered £2k more, they didn't even go in and prove they had the funds. So the solicitors made no attempt to contact the guy and just gave them 6 weeks hoping this chap would come back - he didn't.

[russy01]

untruth said:

russy01 said:

Just been browsing rightmove and there is a half decent looking 4 bed in Westbury sub mendip, might go have a nose.
We're looking at the wookeys/Westbury/Easton/Priddy etc - we'll just have to keep an eye out and hope our buyer (buying to let) is happy to hold on for a bit.

Russy, small world and all that... just looked on RightMove. One of the houses for sale is next door to the house I grew up in (and mum still owns), and one backs onto it. If you want some (very) local insight and info drop me a PM.

I assume you mean Bell close? One of my work colleagues parents live there so I have some insight.
I'm tempted to have a look at both houses although I have to say I'm not completely sold on the close, ones £315 and the other £379 if we are on about the same houses.

[russy01]

prand said:

russy01 said:

Part of me is a massive vengeful bd, so I'm already ready plotting plans to piss them off.

But at the same time part of me wants to just move on and find a new pad and let them have it - if it's not supposed to be etc.

The thing which pisses me off the most however is the "system". I've been shafted twice now.

Buying my first house - I made a deal and started proceedings, the gov had dropped stamp duty for my price level to get people buying. So all was looking good and I'd be £2k better off.
Several weeks in some tt come along and offered more all in cash, the solicitors wanted the extra cash as all proceeds were going to charity (deceased estate). So they cancelled on me and went with this bloke, the bloke disappeared and they never heard from him again - however the solicitors insisted they give this bloke 6 weeks to turn up with the cash.
So 6 weeks later they hadn't heard a thing and we got the thumbs up again, however by this date the gov. brought stamp duty back in, so it cost me another £2k. To top it off 10weeks later the gov. decided it was too early to bring stamp duty back so they dropped it again.
So this knobs offer cost me £2k! I see his companies vans about from time to time, going to let the tyres down one day!

What's your current position and ability to proceed quickly from this point - particularly compared to the other buyer (who as mentioned above, may be nowhere near a position to purchase yet)?

If you have a fair agent and a reasonable seller you may be able to present a strong case, that you are able to move as quickly and as flexibly as the seller needs, perhaps with a small increase in sale price as a goodwill gesture?

Also, if the house ticks enough boxes, and you really want it then why not divert more cash from DIY/Wedding to the house? If you are so desperate for the perfect house, then go for it, with everything you have, then worry about the other items later (wife to be may not agree...) e.g. £8k of DIY - is it really necessary to do all your planned refurb from day one? The house is obviously habitable...

My house is sold, the buyer is buying to let and has his mortgage offer. I have my mortgage offer sorted and was just having to wait for the solicitor to do the searches etc. I am ready to go and wanting to move ASAP.
This other chap has a buyer for his house (but is in a chain), he doesn't need a mortgage for the rest as his parents are giving him cash.
The vendor has no chain as he is moving into his parents house (who are going into an annexe he's built). So the proceeds of the sale is going into the bank (he's already retired).

I've already put my case forward and the chap (whilst apologetic) just wants the extra money. I offered an extra £2.5k (in cash or on the sale price) and he still said no, he wanted the extra £5.5k from the other chap.

At this point I had to draw a line. The house whilst nearly perfect for us is still only worth a certain amount, I'm not paying over the odds for it - I'm also only 25 and don't want to be spending every penny on the house.
We could throw in all our Reno money but this would still only match the other offer and he made it clear he would then try and get the other chap to outbid etc - he's just gone from being happy with my offer to a bit greedy.
Plus throwing all our cash in means we'd have to live in the house in its current state, which isn't great! I also have no sight of any spare money in the coming months with the wedding coming up, so the major works wouldn't get done for at least a year.

[russy01]

untruth said:

russy01 said:

I assume you mean Bell close? One of my work colleagues parents live there so I have some insight.
I'm tempted to have a look at both houses although I have to say I'm not completely sold on the close, ones £315 and the other £379 if we are on about the same houses.

The 379 one is next door to the house I grew up in (converted barn to left of it). Used to go down the moors with the kid who lived in it! The 315 one I'm pretty sure I've been in too! Someone on Bell Close has got an amazing old 1920s (maybe 1900s even) car.

FWIW, Station Road is actually pretty busy (you've gotta love tractors in silaging season - I do, but that's another story) and Bell Close is quieter comparatively though a bit curtain peaky because of its cul de sac. The price difference is a bit baffling in that regard.

We deal with a company in lodge hill business park, so have seen that it's pretty busy down there. I'll go have a look and see what they are like, only been on a drive by so far and I wasn't excited.

[russy01]

Wacky Racer said:

Would it be possible for the solicitors to give you a "credit" for £300 towards their costs of when you eventually find another house...(I understand that if they have laid out for disbursements, land searches etc, the answer would almost certainly be no).

I'm having this discussion tomorrow, but hopefully yes. If they are a pain they will be losing all the company work, so they best be considerate.

[russy01]

Jobbo said:

russy01 said:

scenario8 said:

I must have forgotten a time when a stamp duty holiday period was halted and then re-instated. Without sounding too pompous, I don't have much delaings at that kind of value. When did that happen exactly?

(It sounds like you had a problem with politicians during that period mostly. Surely you can understand the logic behind the solicitors' actions?).

I was 21 and it was my first house, so only £175k. It was all the way back in early 2010. I understand why they do it, but it certainly didn't help me, it would have really helped me and 20 yr old GF at the time who were desperately saving to make it work. Nowadays it seems like first time buyers get deposits chucked at them by the gov, all we wanted was £1750 stamp duty back!

As for the solicitor, yes I agree why they did it but it was handled very badly. We had a mortgage offer sorted and were ready to go at Full asking price. They then had one phone call from a local builders firm who wanted to buy it to sell on who offered £2k more, they didn't even go in and prove they had the funds. So the solicitors made no attempt to contact the guy and just gave them 6 weeks hoping this chap would come back - he didn't.

The first time buyers exemption from SDLT (on purchases below £250k) wasn't withdrawn then reintroduced; it was continuous from 25 March 2010 to 24 March 2012. Not sure you have the full story if you completed between those dates but still paid £1750 SDLT.

The minimum level was raised to 175k. So any purchase under 175k didnt have to pay - we put the deal through at £174,950 so would have been ok. Then for a few month period this went back down to 125k or whatever it was before going back to 175k I think it was.
Im not lying, changes occured and I lost out - not the end of the world, but still annoying.

[russy01]

Bolebroke said:

Ah! The world is simple when you are 25....an agent values the house at X and so you very cleverly bid X-y and feel outraged that someone else bids X+ y.....a house or car or stamp collection is worth what it's worth. Don't blame the other guys who can afford more than you and need/ want it more than you. The system per se might be flawed in your experience but in reality all it does is allow the property to trade at its worth at any one point in time. Might be cheaper next time, might be more. Prices are not static. In the past we paid cash up front to get London houses off the market. Didn't want to and loathe some vendor but we got what we as a family needed.

Sorry I'm so young and naive! You're obviously a very wise man (you even use algebra )....what other life lessons can you teach me sir

If you actually read the OP Im not bitter at the other buyer - if hes got more money to spend on the house, then good on him. But in reality if I wanted the house more I could raise enough cash within a few weeks to buy half the house again - BUT that's not my point.

What im pissed about is how everything can be all go one second and then dead in the water the next. It seems daft that you can have a deal, start paying money to action the deal and then some clown can come along and st all over it.

Whilst its sounds silly and old-fashioned I am most disappointed about the vendors attitude towards the deal. Whilst I fully understand most people would do the same in his position (i.e take the extra 6-8grand) I still find it sad. As far as I was concerned we had a deal, we shook in his garden and nearly stayed for dinner! Call it naive but I thought that an increased offer of less than 1.5% would be ignored considering the ball was rolling.
I wasnt too surprised when he said he wanted me to match this new offer, but what really disappointed me was when he made it clear that he wanted my counter offer to start a bidding war with this new buyer, as he believed this other chap had pretty much unlimited funds.

As I said previously, its bit of a pointless thread and was only started to vent a bit of anger!

KTF said:

Did you not get it taken off the market as a condition of accepting your offer?

Would have made no difference pal. The chap viewed outside of the agency, literally knocked on the door and got shown round. He then left it a couple weeks and randomly called the estate agent last week and placed the offer. The estate agent decided that it was only fair to pass the offer on even though the sale was agreed.

Edited by russy01 on Wednesday 23 April 10:34

[russy01]

Dave_ST220 said:

russy01 said:

If you actually read the OP Im not bitter at the other buyer - if hes got more money to spend on the house, then good on him. But in reality if I wanted the house more I could raise enough cash within a few weeks to buy half the house again - BUT that's not my point.

In which case I'd read my post again. You don't know this would turn into a bidding war. If it's taken a year to find the right house it seems silly to lose it over what in houses is a small amount on cash.

russy01 said:

What im pissed about is how everything can be all go one second and then dead in the water the next. It seems daft that you can have a deal, start paying money to action the deal and then some clown can come along and st all over it.

& as mentioned in this thread the same can happen to the vendor on exchange day, when you consider exchange & completion can happen on the same day that's pretty stty! Some in this thread are even suggesting you do the same!

To me it seems you should be upping your offer, reading over everything you have stated.

Now we have had a night to calm and settle down a bit, we are discussing the best options. But thanks for your input.

[russy01]

boxst said:

I wonder if the seller was annoyed. You mentioned 'several months of hard negotiation' so maybe he was unhappy with the deal but took it and was then happy when someone else came along so he could show you the house was worth more?

The deal I negotiated didn't really take long. What took the most time was getting the right money for my place and then getting the final numbers sorted, so a couple grand here and there so everybody felt like they got a fair deal.

[russy01]

scenario8 said:

JQ said:

russy01 said:

boxst said:

I wonder if the seller was annoyed. You mentioned 'several months of hard negotiation' so maybe he was unhappy with the deal but took it and was then happy when someone else came along so he could show you the house was worth more?

The deal I negotiated didn't really take long. What took the most time was getting the right money for my place and then getting the final numbers sorted, so a couple grand here and there so everybody felt like they got a fair deal.

So you'd not actually sold you own house when you agreed to buy the new place?

Hmm. Not that it makes the OP's life any easier but this little truth changes my perspective on the story at least a little.

There will always be other options, OP. I appreciate you want to purchase in a very limited market, so my adivce would be to letter drop (even door knock - you never know who knows someone who might be interested) and to maintain a very very good relationship with local agents (and solicitors). You might also want to consider continuing with your own sale (to completion if necessary) so that you are in a position to proceed as soon as the next 99%er appears on the horizon.

Of course I sold my house - I wouldn't have started legal proceedings and have the new mortgage arranged if my old house wasn't sold.

I made an offer on the new house whilst my house was still for sale, but under offer (had 2-3 people offering). A week or so later I accepted an offer on my house, so we confirmed the deal with the vendor for the new house and then started to proceed immediately.

[russy01]

scenario8 said:

russy01 said:

scenario8 said:

JQ said:

russy01 said:

boxst said:

I wonder if the seller was annoyed. You mentioned 'several months of hard negotiation' so maybe he was unhappy with the deal but took it and was then happy when someone else came along so he could show you the house was worth more?

The deal I negotiated didn't really take long. What took the most time was getting the right money for my place and then getting the final numbers sorted, so a couple grand here and there so everybody felt like they got a fair deal.

So you'd not actually sold you own house when you agreed to buy the new place?

Hmm. Not that it makes the OP's life any easier but this little truth changes my perspective on the story at least a little.

There will always be other options, OP. I appreciate you want to purchase in a very limited market, so my adivce would be to letter drop (even door knock - you never know who knows someone who might be interested) and to maintain a very very good relationship with local agents (and solicitors). You might also want to consider continuing with your own sale (to completion if necessary) so that you are in a position to proceed as soon as the next 99%er appears on the horizon.

Of course I sold my house - I wouldn't have started legal proceedings and have the new mortgage arranged if my old house wasn't sold.

I made an offer on the new house whilst my house was still for sale, but under offer (had 2-3 people offering). A week or so later I accepted an offer on my house, so we confirmed the deal with the vendor for the new house and then started to proceed immediately.

Well, you confused me with talk of "months of hard negotiating" and now "a week or so later". A very minor point in the grand scheme of things but it appeared you had spent months not being in a position to proceed within your stated period of months of hard negotiating. Where have all these months come from, then? Or is it simply a case of months since you were proceedable and the wheels of conveyancing have been grinding terribly slowly to the point that a new offerer has appeared before you inched towards exchange?

Lets not worry about it chap. Started the thread to let off a bit of steam and have a moan - not to go through the intricate details of the whole process.

[russy01]

TA14 said:

Dave_ST220 said:

Agents will the see you as a time waster & you're unlikely to get any info from them again.

Is that as opposed to someone, who, having sold their own house spends months of hard negotiating?

Ok, so I'm a time waster now?

[russy01]

R6VED said:

I feel for you buddy I really do.

My wife and I bought our first house last February, we looked at over 30 houses and offered on about 5 and lost out for various reasons.

At the time on each we were mightily pissed off and almost gave up looking in frustration.

We ended up in the biggest best house for the lowest price in the nicest area :-) I negotiated £25k off the £245 asking price (it was empty) and they even turned down a higher offer as we were mortgage approved and ready to go immediately.

I drive past one of the houses we missed out on everyday and thank my lucky stars we didn't end up in it.

Best of luck.

Cheers pal.

We're fine about it now, bit put out of joint - but that's life. However its funny how you turn things round in your mind and start picking holes in the original plan to make yourselves feel better! Whether its correct or not I am not sure, but we're now unsure on whether it was the right house or not??

Anyway our luck might be about to take a turn. As I have said previously not many suitable houses come up for sale in my area, however yesterday two good looking candidates which fit the bill were put on the market yesterday! I made contact yesterday and plan to view the houses today/tomorrow.