Wood pellet/bio mass boilers etc...

[jason61c]

Right, I've had a chat on the phone this AM.

A boiler with 5 year warranty(swiss made) delivered and setup etc is £8.5k.

We can claim back 22600kwh at 12.2p for 7 years. Meaning the boiler and install cost is paid for in year 3.

Basic maths(man maths), means that over 7 years we can have our total heating install cost(£12k with boiler) and about £9k extra back on top.

Now this seems quite bonkers to me. What do I need to check? I can store about 2 tonnes of bags at once, the above price was with a 600l hopper.

How can I work out how many tonnes I'll need to buy per year?

[jason61c]

Mr Whippy said:

Is the subsidy fixed for the 7 year term?

Also what happens at the end of 7 years when the subsidy is gone? Is it still competitive with for example a 50% increase in the fuel costs?

I guess you can always swap again in the future though.


Why not look at GSHP and solar perhaps? If you have the space both on the floor and in the roof?!

Dave

Its index linked, so currently 12.2p/kwh. When its gone you just don't get any feed in rates. Fuel costs so far have been very very firm at about £240tonne. GSHP just doesn't stack up for me, regarding solar, they're a public eyesore on the nation

[jason61c]

FlipFlopGriff said:

Is the 22,600kwh from your EPC? If so yes multiply by 12.2p for the annual total. Payments are quarterly for 7 years. Just had ours confirmed about a week ago. The biomass provides hot water and heating so the 2 heat demands are added to calculate the payment. We had an electrically heated boiler on a timer for hot water before and our electric bill has dropped about £30pcm by binning this and we've turned the 2 dehumidifiers off (didn't have any heating prior to the biomass) which is another £20pcm saved on electric.
You need to jump through a few hoops - have a Green Deal assessment which will give you an EPC & Occupancy assessment, installer must be MCS approved (for the items you are installing (ie some are just PV, some just air source, others cover multiple technologies)), the kit you are installing must be MCS approved, and your recommendation section on your EPC must not state install loft or cavity wall insulation (if applicable). From memory that's it.
I'd get in quick before they realise and do what they did with PV and reduce the payouts.
FFG

Yes, although it seems it might be on the low side, as our house is solid walls, no cavity etc, so i'll take it as a minimum really.

It seems a no brainer, at 9k commissioned for the boiler with a 750ltr hopper, £3k to plumb the rest of the house against getting £21k+ back over 7 years. I'm just researching boilers etc etc now.

[jason61c]

Thanks FFG. We've almost the same requirement. 350odd year old farmhouse, 198sq M internally.

This is what I've been quoted...

http://www.rainbowheatandpower.co.uk/products/effe...

Again not the cheapest but 'apparently' well proven etc.

[jason61c]

RedLeicester said:

OP - I assume you'd be replacing non-grid heating, as that's one of the prerequisites for the RHI?

captainzep said:

-I'm also very interested in a biomass boiler setup. -But in my case a log-fired one simply because I'm likely to be self-sufficient in logs -which would increase RHI income and remove concerns about price shenanigans within the industry re. pellets. My man maths suggests ours will have paid for itself within 4 years. Any installation for us would be hand in hand with an extension although another option is to build a little outhouse for the boiler/tank as so many people seem to do in Scandanavia etc. But like the OP, I'd be interested to hear other people's views and experiences too.

We did this, albeit three years ago now. 37kw combined log/pellet boiler. Will pay off in another 18 months without the RHI, with the RHI it looks like it'll return the install cost and then roughly the 70% again on top.

Approx cost on pellets per annum - £1800
Approx cost buying in split wood per annum - £1500
Approx cost buying in greenwood - £400 per annum
Approx cost of using our own wood - my time and a few gallons of two stroke.

We originally just looked at log boilers but decided to go for one with pellet backup - our main holidays are in the winter, so the boiler can still run itself and prevent the house from freezing into a little ice block, and also as an enticing resale option for those terrified by logs or simply for an alternative for us if we were to get lazy!

ERM, sort of, we don't have any type of heating so it should be ok

[jason61c]

RedLeicester said:

As long as you *can't get* mains gas - they tightened down the rules for the RHI shortly before launch and basically it ruled out anyone who had mains supply heating as an alternative...

I think there's a mains connection in the road, however there's no mains gas to the house, should be ok!?

[jason61c]

RedLeicester said:

Hmm, they've tweaked that yet again! Sods.

I'm trying to find it, but there's definitely a reference elsewhere about RHI only being applicable to those *removing* Oil/LPG/electric and not mains gas. On the flip side, as in your case they can hardly expect a homeowner to fork out whatever number BG or whomsoever picks out of a hat to get connected to a main.

I've just been reading thought it, we'll be fine, as you say, its for on or off grid. They do say the savings will be best for those off grid or on oil though.

Just need to decide on the boiler. My best mate owes me, he's got his own gas firm so If I budget 3k for radiators/plumbing and 'payment' then I've just got the boiler cost.

The quote was 9k for

Effecta Komplett III 25kW Light Right Side Pellet Hopper Inc. 1 Heating Circuit with Auger "S" Plan £7,786.00
Commissioning £588
Deliver £590
Medium 750ltr hopper £600
Starter Kit - Effecta 20kW - Ø130mm Twin Wall Straight Length 1 metre - Ø130mm Twin Wall Seal, 130mm
Wall Bracket, CMI, 130mm
Finishing Kit - Effecta 25kW - Ø130mm Twin Wall
700.00 110.00 3.00 18.00 260.00
700.00 440.00 12.00 36.00 260.00

Came to 11k, however with 'discount' 9k.

Thats from www.rainbowheatandpower.co.uk who are a part of http://www.treco.co.uk/

Would it make sense to pay a bit more and use a company like this who have been selling biomass boilers for 30+ years etc?

[jason61c]

Woody3 said:

Jason - can I asked who you phoned? Think I might need to give them a call tomorrow.

I'm in a similar situation (meant to be choosing the plumber on Wednesday to install oil boiler and wood burning boiler stove with Thermal store), but having read this, starting to have second thoughts...

Yes no worries.

I've been dealing with http://www.treco.co.uk/ ask for a guy called Colin.

Its a long established company. They've set up another http://www.rainbowheatandpower.co.uk to deal with the growing domestic demand.


To be fair they're the best company I've spoken to today, about 4 others were instantly wanting to do a survey, couldn't give a price for a boiler and commissioning and were quite annoying.

Its a big amount of cash for me as we've a whole house to renovate, a garage to build. However this effectively gives us a whole free heating system and 10k ish to spend on the house over 7 years. Thats 10k I haven't had to pay tax and NI on.

I 100% would seriously consider it.

[jason61c]

We've decided to take the plunge..... Just waiting on some firm quotes following some site surveys. I'll create a thread to detail how it all goes and works out or not!

[jason61c]

CK11 said:

I think we are going to down the same route
Have you decided on a make/ model? Etc
What size house are you trying to heat?

Hi, house is 195sq M ish...

I'm going for an Effecta

http://www.rainbowheatandpower.co.uk/products/effe...

or Ariterm

http://www.renove.co.uk/our-products/ariterm-wood-...

They're both swiss so a bit cheaper than some German makes, but a fair chunk more than an MCZ type thing.

We're going for one of those as they've got a proven history, 5 year warranty and are two of the 3 most common boilers in their home country.

where we have struggled is avoiding a 'bandwagon' company to supply and fit, however now we've 3 good places giving us firm quotes who have a track history of fitting and looking after them. Plenty of cowboys about. Also plenty who want to charge over the top because of the RHI scheme.

What have you been looking at? Are you aware its very likely people who join the RHI scheme after January that they will likely face a 10% rate reduction? Its already been announced that commercial rates are dropping by 20%.