Woodstove, I want BIG, installer says I'll melt, thoughts?

[cheddar]

Hi all, info first - I've got a new freestanding woodstove going in next week, the house is relatively small but open plan with 15 ft cathedral ceilings and zero insulation or double glazing (that's coming later when I renovate). It's freezing in here in Winter, I can maybe get up to 18 degrees tops with the current (old and rubbish) inbuilt woodfire roaring its head off, in the mornings it's between 6 and 10 degrees in the living room/kitchen - the hallway and bathroom get down to around 2 degrees.

I want the 'mothership' 26kw woodstove but my installer reckons I'll melt, I said I'd just open doors to the hallway, bedroom and bathroom (although I can't imagine it getting that hot), he says it's still too big. I'm conscious that if I install something smaller I'll struggle to heat the place. Can't I just turn the big one down? Surely too much heat heat beats too little?

Any constructive input would be appreciated chaps.

Living room pic here, new stove being installed where the telly is:

[cheddar]

Mmmmm......

Ok, thankyou, I'm hearing you - a little more info first.

Above the ceilings there is tin, just corrugated tin, you can hear small birds walking on it, the walls have nothing in them and they're 'thin', the floors are wood and there's no underfloor insulation plus I'm remote, exposed and at about 300 metres elevation. In the past 2 winters I've run the heat pump and wood stove simultaneously to try and heat the place but they only just manage it, that's with all curtains closed and any adjoining doors closed plus towels at the bottom of the doors to stop the draughts. It's cold in here, I've owned old garages with better thermal efficiency.

[cheddar]

^^^^^^^^^^

Ok, I'm going to see some and to talk with the experts who'll call me mad - noted all the advice so far, thankyou, I'll report back later.

[cheddar]

singlecoil said:

Main issue is how big are your logs, you need to chose a stove that has a door that is big enough.

Quite big but don't have to be - the mighty stove that I like has a 100 litre firebox and the company blurb quotes "You can even burn a small tree!"

[cheddar]

Thankyou to all for the quality input, plenty of diverse and humorous opinion from "Get a big one!" to "Get flip flops".

Regarding insulation, I can't get tradies out here, I'm remote, they're very busy and over the last 18 months I've been let down by three of them, the short term cost effective solution is to install a wood stove.

The 'rated output' on the stoves I've been quoting is the 'maximum' output and as there's heat loss up the flue the 'real' outputs will be lower.

I've dismissed the 26kw stove (sorry to those who were dying to see a nuclear power plant in my living room) however, I've only stepped one rung down the ladder and now strongly considering a 23.4kw model.

Reasons: It has to have a cooktop as we often lose power, it needs to take big logs (this model can accept logs up to 600mm/2feet in length) it must have a 12 hour burn time and I'm anxious about installing something that struggles to heat the house.

Am I wrong to think that I can just turn it down, open doors or even windows to regulate the heat?

I understand I'm might be compromising with longer a heat up period, higher fuel use and possible overkill but without knowing the sweet spot beforehand (it's not like we test drive these things) I'm still leaning towards more power.

I'm speaking to manufacturers today, most retail outlets just seem to quote brochure specs and I'd prefer more thoughtful input.

My permit application must go in by Monday (installers schedule etc) so I have until then to decide, I only get one crack at this.

[cheddar]

I spoke to an excellent, experienced installer today who said that the 'max' output ratings are measured using softwood (pine etc) and that the stove I'm interested in will produce up to 32kw's of heat if hardwood is used.

That made me perspire a bit.

[cheddar]

Decision made and stove purchased.

23.4kw, 76 litre log capacity, takes logs up to 2 feet long.

Pick it up on Thursday, 220kgs apparently, hope to have it installed either next Friday or the following Monday. The installer is fitting a protective heat shield behind it so that the house doesn't burn down.
As soon as it's been inspected and signed off by those that inspect and sign off I'll fire it up to burn off the stinky coatings and then give it a proper go to see if I've created Olaf's hyper sauna.

Thanks to all for the excellent, varied, advice - I'll report back with pics and temps.

Oh, do any of you use 'stove top fans', beautiful little self powered units that you sit on your stove top and push warm air to your chosen area?

Like this:

http://www.stovetopfan.co.uk/

Or this:

http://valiantfireside.com/get/premiair-4-blade-he...

[cheddar]

Simpo Two said:

cheddar said:

Oh, do any of you use 'stove top fans', beautiful little self powered units that you sit on your stove top and push warm air to your chosen area?

Like this:

http://www.stovetopfan.co.uk/

Or this:

http://valiantfireside.com/get/premiair-4-blade-he...

Yes, very handy if the stove is in a cavity. I have one.

Of course yours will just melt

I think your space is big enough to soak it up, but downstairs will be hotter than upstairs - so someone's idea of a ceiling fan might be an idea.

Thanks simpo - I've got the ceiling fan:

[cheddar]

A few of you have questioned my lack of insulation.

When I renovate I'll insulate but I can't get a builder for a while, the stove will do in the meantime, it's a cost effective short term solution.

[cheddar]

sparkythecat said:

To help you run your stove at best efficiency, get yourself a simple flue thermometer like this.
Costing only £4-5 they are magnetic and stick on the single walled part of your flue immediately above the stove. Just vary the amount of wood and air going into the stove to keep the needle in the sweet spot.

Thanks Sparky - I'm onto that, probably going with a 4 blade stove top fan/flue thermometer combo on a deal for £60.

I'm also getting a infrared laser thermometer for spot temps plus my weather station for indoor temps in different areas.

I like measuring things.

[cheddar]

guindilias said:

What model is this beast of a stove? I'm fascinated to see what something that huge looks like!

Edit - and this being PH, HEAT MATTERS!, I think you are legally obliged to get a Stirling engine powered stovetop fan... brilliant bits of kit!

Edited by guindilias on Saturday 21st February 19:24

It doesn't look that big in the pictures and it's functional rather than stylish, pic in the link below, and, yes, I've ordered the stove top fan.

http://woodsman.co.nz/wood/woodsman/tarras-mk-iii

[cheddar]

guindilias said:

That looks awesome, and I would disagree that it looks functional rather than attractive - looks great!
Are you getting the back boiler ("wet back") as well? You could probably heat the whole house with it if you find it's too hot for one room...

They do a 'wet' version of the same model but my cylinder's too far away from my woodstove to efficiently run it.

I've got a wet back coal range in the kitchen.

Bugger to run, does the job:

[cheddar]

PugwasHDJ80 said:

KemP said:

Dude you are going to cook your self with the oven. We have a 7KW burning thing. The lounge where the fire is is 65sqm. I'm sat in a tee shirt most days and we dont run the thing full pelt. I live in Norway.

I hope you have a good source for firewood your doing to burn through it like you would not believe.

But that'll be because the house is well insulated

We have a 13kw heater in a room that we were guaranteed needed no more than 5max

Our house in a 18c country house with single glazed Ali windows with gaps in the frames, our walls are porous when the wind blows.

When it's cold or blowy we find the stove too small and wish we had a 17kw version

It also heats the room upstairs!

Pugwash, I think you're right and having less heat than you'd like always irks whereas having too much heat gives you choices.

I'll stick my neck out here and say that on cold days I don't believe my new stove will heat the whole house.

[cheddar]

Craikeybaby said:

Has the OP melted yet?

Heat shield for curtains taking longer than expected to fabricate due to, erm, potentially high temps.

Picked up the woodstove today, supplier said I must have a big house as he rarely sells this model, took four rotund men to get it on my truck:

[cheddar]

HotJambalaya said:

how do you get it off the truck?

I've been asking myself the same question.

I managed to get the hearth off:

[cheddar]

Installation confirmed for Tuesday, many men coming to carry it in.

Final run for the old girl:

[cheddar]

Update

Ready for new stove:



Old clunker gone:



New one in:





Got flue issues (man flue?) so not finished yet, installers need to build an elbow joint to circumvent a ceiling joist, should be finished Friday.

Edited by cheddar on Tuesday 3rd March 21:20

[cheddar]

Beyond Rational said:

cheddar said:

Does this photograph indicate the estimated safe operating distance?

Made me chuckle.

I'm about 15 metres away from it when I took the pic.

It is big, the firebox internals are 730mm corner to corner.

[cheddar]

Eleven said:

On Friday cheddar will be toasted cheese.

It'll be finished and ready on Friday but the permit man has to come out and put a tick in the go box before I can lower the rods into the reactor.

[cheddar]

Heavy rain and wind stopped play, installers not coming until Monday