New boiler, unsure which make to go for.

[stolt]

hi, i owndering if anyone can offer advice on a new boiler installation. Our house is about 16 years old and the boiler has been playing up over the last two years (red pop out switch geenrally pops out 9 times a day when the heating and water is on)

The house has a convential boiler, with the boiler downstairs in the utility room and the hot water tank in a cupboard in the hallway and the cold water tank in the loft. We have a pump fitted also in the cupboard to feed water to the showers. oh and its a five bedroom house.

I've seen several threads about worcester bosch boilers having a good reputation. I have a local plumber whos worked on our bathroom a couple of years back and he said they were ok and will pop round and have a look.

are there particular models to go for as i say its quite a large house. Also heard of power flushing, should that always be done and is that something that is done as standard or will people generally cut corners and not do it if they feel it doesnt need it.

[stolt]

thansk for all the replies so quickly. the boiler we currently have is a Ideal abeilt 17 years old but upto until then its been going strong and looked after us. i appreciate as with everything that you can never tell what one you ned up with and whether it goes wrong. But interesting to here about issues gaining entry and thigns like that, probably would put me off if i have a issue and plumber comes to look at it and then they want extra because of the headache servicing it.

[stolt]

hi all, ive since had one quote from a plumber that our bathroom fitter used.

what do you guys think of this price.. im going to try to google the boilers see if i can get more info.

the problem we have is the old boiler has thee wires and he todl my wife that all new boilers have four wires and of course he needs to put the overflow to a nearby drain rather than just outside the wall.

we have had a thought about putting the boiler in the loft, it wouldfree some space downstairs plus the wiring means he just has to drop that down and not disturb the downstairs too much which has all been decorated and said that without having t lift out chipboard flooring upstairs he can go up and through one fo mydaughters wardrobes into the loft with the additional wire.

To supply and fit new conventional boiler in existing boiler space in utility room . Including copper, fittings and magnetic filter (magna clean). Run condense pipe to sink. Full power flush to whole heating system, using x800 cleanser and x100 inhibitor.
Brick up old flue hole.
All my works come with 1 year guarantee.

Glowworm 30 hx (5 year warranty) £2200
Vaillant ecotec plus 428 (7 year warranty) £2400
Worcester grecnstar 27 RI (5 year warranty) £2450

he said the works in the loft might be more expensive but unless there are any massive reasons why it cant go there, just dont here of it alot and makes me wonder why i guess a leak means the whole house is ruined rather than just downstairs.

[stolt]

thanks for all the replies on this. I never spoke to the plumber but hopefully i can get him round at the weekend so i can have a chat.

dont a boiler need a outside wall or i guess it can go up through the top of the cupboard into the loft out the roof.

anyone by any chance have that particular valiant ecotec plus 428 fitted?

everyone has mentioned making sure about the powerflush. I guess the cleaners etc are recognised by most of the enigneers on here as godo to use.

thanks

[stolt]

i was looking for reviews and cam across this....

The ecoTEC Pro 28HE part of Vaillants entry level combination boiler range is ideally suited to 2/3 bedroom semi-detached homes with 1 bathroom and an en-suite. The AquaComfort system used by this high efficiency combi provides impressive hot water performance, delivering instant hot water at constant temperatures.


one its combi boiler and i have a hot water tank up there, secondly the blurb says ideally suited to a 2/3 house whereas mine is a 5 bed house with two receptions rooms, so perhaps needs to have a more heavy duty boiler.

[stolt]

i will get a couple more quotes, perhaps one from an accredited worcester fitter.

so hard to tell isnt on what to go for, my main issue is that as we have a normal conventional boiler but ive been quoted on combi boliers and years ago i had a bad experience it was always losing pressure. so really just want a like for like.

Edited by stolt on Tuesday 28th April 23:14

[stolt]

Rickyy said:

Vaillant's installer scheme is hardly difficult to get on to. It took a ten minute chat with the rep in a merchants and I walked away being able to offer 7 years on the Ecotec Plus and 5 on the Ecotec Pro.

To look at a Worcester and a Vaillant side by side, the Vaillant is by far the better engineered and easier to work on.

But Vaillant have not been without their problems. Recent models have suffered with:

• Expansion vessel failure
• Burner door seals failing, causing further damage and potential Carbon Monoxide issues
• Condensate trap connectors going brittle and leaking, filling the bottom of the boiler up with water
• Rubber hoses splitting

Worcester also have had problems:

• Left hand manifold cracks, causing a spray of mains water inside the boiler casing
• Flow turbine adaptor failing, causing a leak of mains water on the right hand side of the boiler
• Fans seem to die after 5-6 years
• A few cases of the mystery EA fault appearing on CDI Classics, which has happened to two I have fitted

Credit to both manufacturers, when a fault becomes common, they do take steps to modify part to prevent it happening again.

I've probably fitted ~50 Worcesters in the last 3 years and only been called back to two, for the EA fault code mentioned above. Worcester attended next day on both occasions.

I stopped fitting Worcesters because I don't like the new compact range, they aren't very well laid out and look like they'll be expensive to repair.

OP, the installer is correct about the wiring. Most older boilers just had a switched live, neutral and earth. Modern boilers, with low water content heat exchangers, need the pump to run on after the burner has stopped, to prevent it warping. That is why the extra wiring is needed, a permanent live and a pump live. So 5 cores in total. The actual wiring is very simple, it's the physical running of the wire that is the issue.

Fitting the boiler in the loft may be an issue. You have an open vented system by the sounds of it, so the feed and expansion tank for the heating needs to be higher than the boiler. Easiest way around this is to fit a system boiler, which has an internal pump and expansion vessel, meaning the heating system is pressurised, doing away with the feed and expansion system for the heating. It's basically a combi without the hot water capability.

The guides you've been looking at are probably for a combi, the suitability for the size of homes is based upon their hot water performance. A 24kw combi for example would only produce enough hot water for one hot tap to be used at once, but would easily heat a 5 bedroom home. So a 24kw conventional boiler should be adequate to heat your home.

thanks for the detailed reply, really appreciate that. are those boilers combi boilers then or what i call conventional boilers. As i say we have a hot tank upstairs and the ideal/plan was to keep that. As i say i had a combi years ago and it was nothing but problems.

so undecided on what to go for, as expected so many reviews and reccomendations for both.

[stolt]

Rickyy said:

I'd advise keeping it as conventional set-up for a 5 bed home. Not the prettiest option, but could you run the extra wires in external trunking up the side of the house, into the attic and down to the airing cupboard?

yeah its possible as the boiler is in the utility room, above that one of daughters rooms with built in wardrobes in there so his plan was to go up through the ceiling into the wardrobe up and through that into the loft and then along into the airing cupboard im assuming.

the next problem is he has to take a pipe to the drain, theres no outside drain but there is a sink in the utility but next to that is a washing machine, my worry is trying to drag that out and damaging the floor so that was my thought on putting it in the loft or perhaps airing cupboard.

[stolt]

Rickyy said:

Putting it where the old boiler is sounds ideal if there is an easy route for the wiring and drainage. The only time a washing machine damages flooring is when it's dragged across lino, if you tip it back on to its hind legs and walk it out, it shouldn't damage a thing.

Putting a boiler in a loft is always a last resort. It'll be a lot more work in your case. If the boiler ever develops a fault, it's a pain having to clamber up there to reset it all the time and it's liable to frost damage.

ok cheers, yeah the wife did say imagine if we had the same issue with the the new boiler as we have we the old and have to keep pushing the switch in, it would mean coming upto the loft as you say to mess around with the boiler.

its just us protecting some amitco floor which was laid in the utility room and have visions of it being scratched by plumbers etc, didnt think it through and should have done it first.

[stolt]

had another plumber round tonight, he fits bosch only. I was discussing about powerflush and he said unless we have cold rads at the bottom which normally denotes sludge in them then he reccomends doing otherwise just stick with a magaflow which he will fit in the airing cupboard upstairs.

whats everyones views on the powerflush. worth doing anyway or just sticking with the magnaflow?

thanks

[stolt]

moles said:

If the system is clean then a waste of time but dirt/sludge is the worst thing you can leave in a system and it will cause no end of trouble to the new boiler if there is any left in there. The maganacleans are good but they don't trap 100% of sludge. Maybe take some rads off downstairs and flush a hose through them see what comes out would be my approach.

ok cheers, personally it was something i was willing to do but this other plumber put doubt in my head.

dont have to drain down the system do i for that, i can just turn the valves each end and then have a bucket handy..

Edited by stolt on Friday 1st May 23:45

[stolt]

been watching magnaclean demo and powerflushing on youtube for an idea on how it works..