Big Outbuilding In Neighbours Garden
Discussion
Please feel free to move to correct forum if applicable.
Our next door neighbours on one side are building what is best described as a large summer house / workshop outbuilding in the back garden. We're fortunate in that where we live the back gardens are quite large and separated by mature hedges and trees, so it's not the size of the building that's the problem.
The issue is that they've decided to build it at the end of the garden where the hedgerow stops and a wooden fence approx 5.75ft high starts, so it can be seen over. The building comes right up to the fence; there's not a handspan gap between our fence and the back wall of this building. Furthermore, the roof pitches down towards our garden and it's so close it looks as if rain will simply come off the roof and over the fence, draining into our lawn. They are equally close to the fence at the back but that backs onto a playing field, so doesn't really bother anyone.
The roof - when finished - will be at least 3m high. It's currently taller than the playing field fence and I've measured that to be 3m tall. The floor area looks quite large too, so combined with the height and proximity, from what I gather some planning regs might be breached or required.
We moved in a year ago and aren't on bad terms with them, nor do we wish to cause ill feeling, but they have enough room to put the building in the centre of the garden rather than right next to the only part of the boundary that can been seen over. They said that they didn't really get on with the previous owners, and I've discovered that may be because they objected to a 2 storey extension that our neighbours wanted to build back in 2009. That would lead me to believe they must be aware of planning regs.
In a nutshell, what would you do? It's not the size but the location, especially where space is available to site it a little further away from the boundary. I'll post some photos later if possible.
Our next door neighbours on one side are building what is best described as a large summer house / workshop outbuilding in the back garden. We're fortunate in that where we live the back gardens are quite large and separated by mature hedges and trees, so it's not the size of the building that's the problem.
The issue is that they've decided to build it at the end of the garden where the hedgerow stops and a wooden fence approx 5.75ft high starts, so it can be seen over. The building comes right up to the fence; there's not a handspan gap between our fence and the back wall of this building. Furthermore, the roof pitches down towards our garden and it's so close it looks as if rain will simply come off the roof and over the fence, draining into our lawn. They are equally close to the fence at the back but that backs onto a playing field, so doesn't really bother anyone.
The roof - when finished - will be at least 3m high. It's currently taller than the playing field fence and I've measured that to be 3m tall. The floor area looks quite large too, so combined with the height and proximity, from what I gather some planning regs might be breached or required.
We moved in a year ago and aren't on bad terms with them, nor do we wish to cause ill feeling, but they have enough room to put the building in the centre of the garden rather than right next to the only part of the boundary that can been seen over. They said that they didn't really get on with the previous owners, and I've discovered that may be because they objected to a 2 storey extension that our neighbours wanted to build back in 2009. That would lead me to believe they must be aware of planning regs.
In a nutshell, what would you do? It's not the size but the location, especially where space is available to site it a little further away from the boundary. I'll post some photos later if possible.
onomatopoeia said:
bobtail4x4 said:
it needs to be a metre from the boundary and under 30m2 to be exempt B Regs anyway.
I think the metre from the boundary only applies if it constructed from combustible material.
Just to be clear it's not the design, size or construction that I have a problem with; it's at the far end of the garden that we only use for dumping grass clippings anyway. Plus as said above, when finished at least it's not going to be a wall of concrete peeking over the fence.
Where I think there might be an issue - and a few of you have confirmed my suspicions, is it's too big to be that close.
I'll get my facts straight and pop round for a friendly word. If it all kicks off I'm not worried as I'm a powerfully built company director and my wife is handy with frozen sausages and a hammer.
Where I think there might be an issue - and a few of you have confirmed my suspicions, is it's too big to be that close.
I'll get my facts straight and pop round for a friendly word. If it all kicks off I'm not worried as I'm a powerfully built company director and my wife is handy with frozen sausages and a hammer.
I think some people have gone a little bit off topic.
To answer your question the building needs to be at least 1m from the boundary and if it is closer than 2m then it needs to be no higher than 2.5m. The building looks to be a dual pitch room so can be up to 4m high. If it is mono pitch it can only be 3m high.
It does look to be closer than 1m from the boundary if indeed the fence is on the boundary and if this is the case they are in breach of permitted development rights.
To answer your question the building needs to be at least 1m from the boundary and if it is closer than 2m then it needs to be no higher than 2.5m. The building looks to be a dual pitch room so can be up to 4m high. If it is mono pitch it can only be 3m high.
It does look to be closer than 1m from the boundary if indeed the fence is on the boundary and if this is the case they are in breach of permitted development rights.
Busa mav said:
Before you go see him , as somebody has already suggested, look on the council web site and do a planning search.
They may have got planning approval within the last 3 years.
Easiest search is "your council name planning search"
Done that. The search turned up a previous application by them for a 2 storey extension which was rejected, and an appeal which was also rejected. They may have got planning approval within the last 3 years.
Easiest search is "your council name planning search"
That's what caused the frostiness between them and the previous owners of our house.
Busa mav said:
MonkeyMatt said:
I think some people have gone a little bit off topic.
To answer your question the building needs to be at least 1m from the boundary .
There is no such requirement in PD allowances for an outbuilding , it can be built tight to the boundary if it is under 2.5m high.To answer your question the building needs to be at least 1m from the boundary .
magooagain said:
It will be interesting to see what sort of roof is going on. It looks as though it may need some more chunky rafters to support the load ,which may make it higher.
He is taking the mick really by not having a chat about how close it is to your boundary.
This is what annoyed us. A polite word beforehand would have worked wonders. Now we simply think they are taking the piss.He is taking the mick really by not having a chat about how close it is to your boundary.
Busa mav said:
MonkeyMatt said:
I think some people have gone a little bit off topic.
To answer your question the building needs to be at least 1m from the boundary .
There is no such requirement in PD allowances for an outbuilding , it can be built tight to the boundary if it is under 2.5m high.To answer your question the building needs to be at least 1m from the boundary .
Busa mav said:
abitlikefiennes said:
Busa mav said:
MonkeyMatt said:
I think some people have gone a little bit off topic.
To answer your question the building needs to be at least 1m from the boundary .
There is no such requirement in PD allowances for an outbuilding , it can be built tight to the boundary if it is under 2.5m high.To answer your question the building needs to be at least 1m from the boundary .
Busa mav said:
abitlikefiennes said:
Sorry! But the 1m distance does come into play if the material is combustable, which this well and truly is.
we were talking about planning , which is totally different from building regs.I outlined the difference and the restrictions in an earlier post.
That post surely can't be any clearer.
Busa mav said:
ok,
Planning.
Its over 2.5m high and it is within 2m of the boundary , It definitely needs planning approval.
Building regs.
Its less than 1m from the boundary , it needs to have the side wall in non combustible material , or be lined internally to provide 1/2 hr fire resistance.
It looks to be more than 30m2 , so it needs building regs anyway.
Planning.
Its over 2.5m high and it is within 2m of the boundary , It definitely needs planning approval.
Building regs.
Its less than 1m from the boundary , it needs to have the side wall in non combustible material , or be lined internally to provide 1/2 hr fire resistance.
It looks to be more than 30m2 , so it needs building regs anyway.
From what i can tell from the posts so far it either falls foul of one or more planning regs and/or a building reg, so either way they need to have a sit down and rethink their plans.
TA14 said:
He may believe that he's just within the rules, esp if his ground is slightly higher than your ground: if you said that the double doors were 1.9m wide and high then the length would be 3x1.9=5.7 and at 5.2m wide that's just under 30m2, with 1.9m high doors plus 580mm for the mono-pitch roof is just under 2.5m. If he's just outside those dims he may think that he's got away with it...
The ground is pretty level and I'm certain it's taller than 2.5m at the highest point. If you can make out the wire mesh fence in the background, that is the edge of a playing field and it runs the length of all the houses on this side of the road. I measured the height of it in our garden and it's at least 3m tall. The top of his roof is higher than this mesh fence.xstian said:
Although its a bit close to the fence, its not that bad. He could have moved it 1 meter away from the fence and put the high part facing you and it would have been just as bad, if not worse.
In reality what are you really going to be able to do about it now? It might not be right, but it looks like he has built too much now to want to move it. Make sure he fits some guttering and directs the water away from you fence and put some trellis or something up and get on with enjoying your life.
What am I going to do? Firstly have a polite word with them, then get the council planners in to check and if they say it's fine I'll let the matter drop, plant some hedges and carry on with things.In reality what are you really going to be able to do about it now? It might not be right, but it looks like he has built too much now to want to move it. Make sure he fits some guttering and directs the water away from you fence and put some trellis or something up and get on with enjoying your life.
If the council pull him up on anything, then he'll be the one who has to worry about what to do, not me. I'd rather it was as you said; further away and with the high part facing. That way we wouldn't have the entire pitch of the roof to look at.
An important factor is the complete lack of manners. We've seen him out there sawing and chopping and he's looked up (and quickly dived out of view again) and not once did he casually mention his plans. Even if the structure turn out exactly the same we wouldn't have minded so much had we have known, but to build something that imposing so close to your dividing fence and not acknowledge it is bad form.
Edited by abitlikefiennes on Tuesday 26th May 20:39
xstian said:
By all means have a quick chat with him about it, but if he refuses to move it, you can't win. If you report him to the council and he has to take it down, you are going to fall out with him. If the council say it is OK and can stay, you will still fall out with him.
The part about getting on with enjoying your life, a unfriendly neighbour can soon put a stop to that. I'm sure there are some people on here who can tell you some stories about bad neighbours.
Having thought about it, as they didm;t have the courtesy to mention it to us, I'm going to skip the chat part too. He wasn't going to move it on my say so. I've contacted the council planners - they can pay him a visit.The part about getting on with enjoying your life, a unfriendly neighbour can soon put a stop to that. I'm sure there are some people on here who can tell you some stories about bad neighbours.
If they say it's fine that's okay with me, I won't harbour any ill feelings but I may reserve the right to think they were a bit rude in assuming they could go ahead without thinking their neighbours might have thoughts on the matter.
They are an odd couple anyway, we say hello if we pass in the street but that's all. Certainly not a couple who's friendship I am bothered about.
CorradoTDI said:
It's so close the gutter will either be sitting on or overhanging the fence - can't be legal surely?
Who owns the fence?? I'd be tempted to raise the end part of the fence to the same height as the rest but you might not be able too once the roof's on.
The boundary is ours on that side so we can do what we like.. I'm interested to see how he's going to tackle the back wall and guttering.Who owns the fence?? I'd be tempted to raise the end part of the fence to the same height as the rest but you might not be able too once the roof's on.
Gafferjim said:
So, as long as it passes the required regs / permissions applicable to it,[/b] it certainly can be right next to your fence (with gutters!)
It can be right next to the fence if it's under a certain height, a certain square footage and not made of combustable materials (which this is). I feel that this fails on at least 1 of those points.Alex@POD said:
Actually, it doesn't fail on anything, not yet anyway. The rules state that if it is over a certain size, close to your boundary and made of principally combustible materials, then building regs apply. That just means he has to board the inside in fireproof materials and provide big enough doors to escape, that kind of thing. It doesn't mean it's going to be illegal.
It might fail on this (from Planning Portal) - If an outbuilding is within 2m of the property boundary it should not exceed 2.5m in height.I don't object to the building per se; I object to it being so close when there is plenty of space elsewhere in their garden to site it.
Trophy200 said:
What would worry me more is the likely end use for this building.
It looks capable of housing some serious and possibly noisy kit which, given his stated occupation earlier in the thread, suggests this may be a joinery workshop.
Not sure I'd like that so close to my property.
Just a thought.
Trophy200
This was my first thought too, which is why I want to nip it in the bud sooner rather than later. He's a carpenter by trade and works off site at the local prison but I bet you any money this is going to be a workshop.It looks capable of housing some serious and possibly noisy kit which, given his stated occupation earlier in the thread, suggests this may be a joinery workshop.
Not sure I'd like that so close to my property.
Just a thought.
Trophy200
Alex@POD said:
abitlikefiennes said:
Alex@POD said:
Actually, it doesn't fail on anything, not yet anyway. The rules state that if it is over a certain size, close to your boundary and made of principally combustible materials, then building regs apply. That just means he has to board the inside in fireproof materials and provide big enough doors to escape, that kind of thing. It doesn't mean it's going to be illegal.
It might fail on this (from Planning Portal) - If an outbuilding is within 2m of the property boundary it should not exceed 2.5m in height.I don't object to the building per se; I object to it being so close when there is plenty of space elsewhere in their garden to site it.
SAB888 said:
So he definitely hasn't applied for Planning? As I said yesterday, I'd be talking to Planning and if it's an illegal structure, they can enforse removal of it. It's fairly certain that the LA will find out about it one way or another and it's better for all concerned to do it properly. It seems too big to get away without Planning.
Definitely no planning applied for. Checked the city council website yesterday and the most recent application for this road was for our other neighbours brick extension which was built earlier this year and isn't near our boundary. Before that was even started all the households were sent a letter outlining the plans and telling us where they could be seen etc., so I would say that as we haven't received any such notice in this instance then he hasn't gone through any official channels.I contacted the LA yesterday. I'll pop a note through their door tomorrow politely outlining our concerns so they have a tangible record of the points we want raised.
astroarcadia said:
OP, how long is your garden?
Whats the general outlook from the back of the house?
More pics needed!
This is where I look like I'm moaning for no good reason. Before I go further; Whats the general outlook from the back of the house?
More pics needed!
a) I'm pretty sure this will be a full-on joinery workshop so there will be all sorts of drilling, sawing, hammering, sanding and all the noise and dust that ensues; and
b) It's still too big to sit it right next to the boundary and wilfully ignore planning consent and the goodwill of your neighbours.
In relation to point a, after some bad news from the hospital today the last thing my wife needs over the next year is a f**king sawmill at the end of the garden.
Anyway, the area in question is in the far left-hand corner of this pic.
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