El cheapo chimney liner

[princeperch]

So I'm going to get the chimney lined for a small 4kw stove. Some of the quotes I've seen are eye watering - 3k odd.

Anyway what I'm thinking of doing is installing the liner down the chimney with a friend, and then get building control in the inspect and approve when the stove is all connected up. I reckon subject to any unforeseen issues, I can get the lot in and signed off for about 800 quid. Yes going on the roof is risky but I can feed the liner to a friend on the roof through my loft windows, so if we go steady hopefully it'll be ok.

I don't want to spend mega bucks on the premium liner, the cheaper one will do.

At the lower end of the market the thickness of flexible liner seems to vary.

These are the two I've narrowed it down to.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Flue-Liner-Kit-Installat...

The 316 grade is a recognised budget liner.

This other one is also cheap but doesn't seem to have a grading as such and is a bit thinner

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321608736140?var=5108700...

If I go with either will my house burn down?

I'll bung up some pictures shortly of course so you can see how wrong it'll all go.

[princeperch]

I'm all for people earning a good living but some of the quotes I've seen are taking the p.

Eg one installer tried to sell me 316 grade liner at 20 quid a metre. 350 quid for a hearth.

500 quid to knock out the infill of the breast render and plaster.

100 quid to design deliver and install the hearth.

2 chimney sweeps at 65 quid a pop?

The hard part is getting on the roof and popping the liner in. Once you've done that you just need to follow part J to the letter..

[princeperch]

Thanks chaps. For those that got their chimney lined and who posted here, what
Liner did you get?

[princeperch]

well I just paid £12.00/m inc vat and delivery for the 316 liner which seems very fair. 10m winging its way to me now. i'll pick up the other required bits off ebay or wherever.

picked up some nice limestone the other day too for the hearth which was a fraction of the price of slate.

[princeperch]

I got my limestone hearth from B and Q, a big slab of it for 12 quid.

I got my stove off ebay, £150.00, new, 4.5kw. I'm sure from what all the stove shops said from when I spoke to them that it will explode in my face and kill everyone in a 10 mile radius.

we shall see.

[princeperch]

dickymint said:

princeperch said:

Thanks chaps. For those that got their chimney lined and who posted here, what
Liner did you get?

11 metres of 5" Duraflue 316


http://duraflue.co.uk/

Paid £325 for the complete kit and fitted it with a friend (He's done loads.) Kit included the tapered cone to help it up.

We chose to feed it up the chimney with Him on the roof and me down. He said it was the easiest He'd done and He hardly did any pulling with me doing the pushing.

Did the building control bloke sign it off without issue? Or did your mate sign it off?

[princeperch]

I've got to change the chimney pot over too as well as bunging the liner down but at least we can get to the stack easily enough through on of my loft windows

[princeperch]

All fair points

My mate was a builder now a surveyor, he roughly knows what he's doing

You can almost reach out and touch the chimney stack its that close to the window, got a suitable ladder to go out the loft, and will also have an 8m ladder below as a precaution if it goes wrong and he needs to get off the roof

(I won't be going on the root myself!)

[princeperch]

building regs say for a small stove (as I have 4.5kw) if its defra approved (i.e clean burn - mine isnt) OR you do not intend to burn anything other than smokeless fuel (as I do, but my stove isn't defra approved) than 5'' (125mm) flue is acceptable under part J

[princeperch]

I have just received a very strange reply from the building control officer of my council who seems to be conceding that he, as a building control officer, isn't in a position to approve the stove on his own in his capacity as, er, building control officer. he also seems to be trying to circumvent the fixed cost building control notice. its all very odd.




Dear Mr Perch,

We are not in a position to take responsibility for the safe installation of solid fuelled stoves. Nevertheless, we have a duty to ensure that all reasonable steps have been taken to ensure that the installation is safe and complies with the requirements of Part J of the Building Regulations.

Normally, the person on whose behalf the work is being carried our would employ an installer registered with one of the competent person schemes recognised by the Government (APHC, Benchmark, BECSA, Certsure, HETAS, NAPIT, OFTEC or Stroma), who would carry out all the necessary checks during installation and issue a certificate to confirm that the installation is safe and compliant.

When an installation is carried out by an installer not registered with one of the competent person schemes, a building regulations application must be deposited with the local authority and the applicant must demonstrate to the local authority that the installation is safe and satisfactory. There will be a charge due based on the cost of the works, including the cost of the appliance and flue.

To do this, the local authority can inspect some of the physical elements, but the applicant must provide supplementary evidence, from a person who is qualified to do so, that the installation: appliance, flues and chimneys are safe and compliant. The supplementary evidence will consist of a series of test reports undertaken and signed by a suitably qualified person, who may be an independent engineer who is a member of one of the relevant competent persons schemes or an appropriately trained chimney sweep who is a member of a trade organisation such as NACS or APICS.

The tests and test reports required are:
1. A visual test of the flue, or if not visible, a coring ball or sweeping test.
2. For any appliance other than an open fire, a spillage test.
3. A smoke test of the flue.

The local authority would only be able to issue a completion certificate once the inspections of the physical characteristics and measures have been carried out by the local authority and copies of appropriate test reports have been received and deemed to be satisfactory.

I hope this answers your queries.

[princeperch]

my response:

Dear lazy building controller,

Thanks for your prompt response.

I am a bit confused.
I thought that the role of Building Control is to ensure notifiable works (such as the install of a stove) meets the building regulations.
Part J of the building regulations states in the "Notification of Work" section that the "self-certification scheme" (by a HETAS professional) is an exception to notifying work to Building Control.
If I were to find a HETAS installer to sign off on my stove, then I clearly wouldn’t need to pay building control anything.
I am aware of colleagues who have had their local council inspect similar installations in the past and I am a bit concerned that Building Control appear to be suggesting that there is no expertise available in house to assess if the installation meets building regulations or not.
I was anticipating your response would be along the lines that you would attend, inspect the physical aspects of the install, together with a type 1 smoke test and a form detailing the installation as per the Appendix in the building regulations.
I appreciate that this is something you and your colleagues might not be faced with very often, but can you have a rethink and come back to me please. It seems duplicitous and against the requirements of the building regulations for me to have to pay a HETAS professional to come out and then have to pay Building Control to also come out.

I look forward to hearing from you

Best

P Perch Esq

[princeperch]

andy43 said:

building control said:

I'm scared of fires and I want my mummy.

Christ. How can they even consider charging you when you still have to find a hetas man who will inspect and issue paperwork. I suspect you will struggle to find anyone hetas approved who's prepared to sign off DIY work anyway - same as getting an electrician to certify somebody else's first fix.

I think this bloke has got it wrong and hopefully he will realise shortly.

what i'll be doing is tendering my 140 quid shortly to cover the building notice and then if we need to have a bun fight about whether he as the BC officer should be approving it or whether he really can insist on me having to pay 100/150? quid to someone to carry out the tests he say are required then that's what we will have to do..

[princeperch]

NDA said:

Just as an aside - possible an unhelpful one, I'm not sure...

One of my oldest mates had his house burn down - completely down - just before christmas. Lost everything, but wasn't injured and was insured.

The cause was a poorly fitted cheap chimney liner.

His house is still a burned out shell whilst he deals with his insurance company - they've still not settled.

He was lucky his kids were not at home - anyone upstairs wouldn't have made it.

So it's just a view to say tread with care and get the job done properly rather than cheaply - and I'm really not trying to be a smart-ass, just passing on some info.

all noted, believe you me if I were truly going to do it on the cheap I would have just done it and told no one about it! I'm trying to play the game and do it properly but don't want to pay 140 quid to someone to simply measure the size of the hearth the stove sits on (which is basically what BC matey boy is proposing) after having paid a HETAS or registered sweep 150 quid to come and do the hard work!

[princeperch]

Just spoke to a sweep £120 for the three tests the BC officer wants done

Not the end of the world but still fking annoying given it can't be beyond the wit of man for the BC bloke to do them himself

[princeperch]

Well the liner is in now. Tried fitting it without rope but it wouldn't go in, once we got the rope on it and I was pulling from downstairs it was a five minute job.

Few school boy errors on the way though.

1) even if you have swept the chimney before hand as I had done, do not under estimate how much crap and soot will come down that chimney when you start the business end of proceedings. My wife went mental and it tool me 3 hours last night to clean the front room up


2) try and unkink the liner before you're on te roof. It comes in a coil when delivered and its not great to have to fk about uncurling it on the roof


3) its a long way down so borrow or buy some safety harnesses don't use an old coil of twin and earth like my mate did attached to his jeans wrapped round the chimney stack


4) bring all the tools up with you or have them close to hand its a ballache yo have to keep nipping down to get a chisel or whatever

5) we had a velux window that we could use to pass tools out and get the liner onto the roof. Made thins considerably easier. I'm not sure I would have liked to have undertaken this task having to lug that and the chimney pot etc over the roof. Its also easier using power tools like the angle grinder when someone else is there keeping an eye out and who can kill the power if needs be



Still it's in now so all we need to do tody is fabricate a closure plate from hardibacker and connect it all up then get the pros in to test it.

[princeperch]

[princeperch]

Yes I made sure it was the right way up!

[princeperch]

It's all about the draw.

From the sounds this donkeys dick has been making since install I'm expecting my little stove to take off like a rocket ship

[princeperch]

[princeperch]