Neighbourly Relations

[Thorodin]

Sorry for the length, I thought the full picture might be helpful:

My new (elderly) neighbours are becoming a problem. They moved in two years ago and, with their three sons (who are not living there), gutted the place, a semi-detached bungalow. The usual noise and multiple skips were a permanent fixture but we thought ok, they are entitled and we want to remain on good terms.

Then they built a raised deck, about three feet of the ground, from which they had uninterrupted view right into our bedroom. This happened when we went on hols for a fortnight, they had asked us when we were actually going too, so it seemed just a bit planned. I asked him if he had applied for any planning consents or guidance and he said no, it didn’t need it. All contact had been most amicable up to this point.

I wasn’t happy and went to the council office to ask what to do, taking photos and measurements including heights and dimensions etc. Planning Officer said it contravened building regs and retrospective permission should be sought. Had a quiet chat with him, it was courteous as ever and I didn’t mention I had been to the council, he is by nature non-committal, and told him it was unreasonable and intrusive and he should see the council.

His sons turned up and we had a, er, chat, and they amended the structure to only just come into sensible-land. Turns out they are a building firm with another council’s contracts and with precise knowledge of planning and regs.

Relationships then changed and we were blanked on every occasion, a studied silence now prevails. They (three sons) have now been working in the loft for a month with many 8x4 plaster and ply sheets, insulation boards. Loads of joists and battens and two Velux windows, seems like several rooms-worth. Can anyone tell me if planning permission is need for habitable rooms up there, other than for storage? Don’t want to make a poor situation worse but can’t help thinking a liberty is being taken by those that should know better. We’ve lived here 12 years now and this is a blight. Thanks.

[Thorodin]

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated. We moved here 12 years ago as our final move, we are elderly too, and things were peaceful at last.

We moved from a hell hole of a drunkard's route from several boozers to the bus routes etc. The public behaviour and damage was just shocking. We found this place by accident, I did a fair sized job three doors away (I was a stained glass craftsman in business) and this place became vacant when the owners took a job in Scotland. Couldn't believe my luck, we thought we were settled.

It's a nice small 1930's estate of bungalows, some semis and some detached with bags of character. Two (out of 40) have rooms in the roof. We can't face moving again at our time of life and would prefer to get on with our neighbours. We think they are private l'lords with a portfolio and developing for multi-occupancy to sell on or let. The two places are attached as semis. They have been working in there continually for two years now. Their vehicles have their company advertising on them with details of the inner London borough they contract for. It's depressing and a worrying time but we appreciate people should be able to do what they want in their own home. Needs careful handling I think.

[Thorodin]

Bill said:

Agreed with the suggestions they're knobs who won't care what you think who are doing it up to sell. I wonder if the parents are living in it so there's no capital gains to pay. (Ie they buy, sons do it up - who pays for this bit? They then sell and pocket the profit tax free that they can transfer to the sons without duty if they live another 7 yrs, assuming it even registers for death duty.) You might yet have the last laugh when the revenue take a good look.

(Or I might be over thinking things... )

Grateful for all these replies but this one struck a chord and prompts what I hadn't thought of previously.
The elderly couple who we originally thought were the owners do sleep here but only about three nights a week - their car goes missing for two or three days on end every week - and one of the son's vans is permanently parked on the drive. I haven't got a problem with their tax planning, that's none of my business, and don't want to 'not get on' with anybody. Also not really concerned about overlooking the garden, it's a garden and we aren't naturists. Well, not these days anyway. Maybe they will sell to a larger family and add to general mix.

Edited by Thorodin on Friday 29th July 13:56

[Thorodin]

boyse7en said:

I'm not trying to come across as antagonistic, and I understand the issues you have with the decking and being overlooked, but what is the problem to you if they are doing a loft conversion? Once the inevitable noise etc of the building work is done I can't see that it will make much or any difference to your house or living arrangements. You can approach the council to see if planning is needed or has been obtained, and they will probably require Building Regs to sign off on various aspects of the construction work too, so you could check that this has been done.

You didn't come across as anything even approaching antagonistic!
The opening tale about the decking was merely to provide some indication as to their preparedness to ignore the niceties that most of us hopefully would use. It was only later that we became aware of their business activities and the alarm bells started to tinkle in the distance. The way that was done, especially asking us when and for how long we would be away, fostered the thought about their willingness to dispense with permissions which may or may not be required.

As we are not familiar with this field we can only guess and I thought on here might give us some insight. Indeed it has, too. For instance I was unaware of the 'party wall' situation (thanks for that) and we intend to follow that up. We couldn't care less how people next door live, it's their house after all, but we do care about people taking liberties which might conceivably be against our interests.

We did approach the council about the decking and had photos and dimensions. The planning officer said retrospective permission might be required and did we want to open a complaint. We declined at the time and as the neighbours agreed to modify the structure we accepted that and took it no further.
Thanks for your interest.

[Thorodin]

Esseesse said:

Same happening around me (Bedford), many many 70's bungalows being developed and having extra floors or dormers added. I guess house prices have got to a point that it's well worth it, and also these 70's buildings have decent sized rooms and plots unlike the local rabbit-hutch new stuff.

I can see the attraction of maximising a place and don't blame anyone for doing so. The bungalow was built 1935 and has a 100' garden, garage, three large bedrooms, new bathroom (built by me by taking down the wall between it and the WC) and a dressing room, small kitchen and separate dining room and very large lounge. The elderly (seems to be a lot of them!) chap who bought it from new died in hospital a couple of months before we bought it. The chap had always lived on his own and had nothing done to it, apart from the occasional wallpapering, so all the original tiling and floor tiles, brass/copper door furniture and original hand plastered covings were intact in every room. It was like a time warp and exactly what we wanted - being Art Deco freaks. We just want to avoid problems in the future in the nicest possible way and don't want to prejudice future relationships with our neighbours.