This time next year (Peckham townhouse renovation)
Discussion
Three years ago I started my build thread on a studio renovation in Chamonix, which is now for sale. Now I'm starting something on a bigger scale. We completed on an early Victorian four-storey townhouse in Peckham last week. The property has only had three owners since it was built in 1843 and the last owners were an artist family who used the lower two floors as studio space. The whole place needs substantial renovation which is why it appealed to me.
Here's how it's presented in the agent's brochure.
The plan is to create a potential 'forever home' and continue the house's tradition of long family ownership. The property had a lot going for it (location, value, potential etc) so we stretched ourselves financially when it came to buying it. As a consequence the renovation budget is fair, but less than I'd like to be working with for something of this scope. Buoyed by the success of the Chamonix renovation I'm taking on design and PM duties again, supplemented with a professional designer and project manager, Jeff. He's mostly there to sanity check my design, polish it for technical presentation and to fill in the substantial gaps in my technical knowledge. This is clearly on a much bigger scale than my last project and definitely requires some more professional help. This time around I've no interest in doing the heavy lifting. I'll leave that to the pros and concentrate on the bigger stuff where I can actually add value.
A planning application was submitted in July and I'm expecting a response on that at the end of next week. The design includes a modest and, I hope, uncontroversial rear extension to the lower ground floor only. I've deliberately played that very safe to minimise the chance of planning hiccups. A tender pack went out to three contractors at the start of the week and, all being well with planning, party wall notices will be sent next week. If those go through without issue then we could begin work in November. If there are any disputes then it will probably run into December. I'm told the work will take 6 months (26 weeks) but I'm braced for more like 9 months. All said and done I hope to be moving in by 'This time next year (Rodders)'. We're living in a rental while the work takes place so I'm keen to finish as efficiently as possible. Not just for financial reasons but mostly because the rental doesn't have a dishwasher and I hate washing up.
Here's a snapshot of the plans:
Level 0
I work from home and my wife also spends many hours in the evenings and at weekends working from the kitchen table. The new layout includes a substantial office space that will work for 4-5 people (should I expand my freelance design work into something larger) and will double as my man cave. I cycle a bit and there'll be an area of the office dedicated to this, with my bikes displayed appropriately. This arrangement also keeps the lower ground floor as the 'engine' of the house, separating the office from the home as much as possible.
The rest of the floor is extended to give a large kitchen and dining area, with a dedicated larder, a small bathroom and a little snug tucked in the back corner. The rear is a 3-panel sliding door arrangement and there's a skylight above the dining area. The layout of the kitchen itself is just a placeholder arrangement. I'll be working on that in the future.
The whole floor currently has low ceilings, at around 2.2m. I'm planning to excavate down to take that to somewhere between 2.4-3.0m, depending on costs. The structural engineer seems happy with that and we've dug two inspection pits last week to see where and what the foundations are like. Those reports are due shortly but the current floor is suspended, around 700mm above the foundations.
Level 1
This level gets a dedicated utility room at the rear and two large reception rooms: one for adults and one more for kids. We'll keep some of the period features like the two fireplaces and the decorative ceilings and covings, all of which need a lot of TLC. The kid-friendly reception will double as a library, with storage up to 1m height and then shelves and displays above.
Level 2
The bedroom level. One family bathroom in the centre with two double rooms and a single. One of the doubles will have an en-suite. We haven't started a family yet but when we do we expect to need some help from a nanny/au pair/night nanny as both of us have relentless work schedules. This is why one of the doubles has an en-suite. The 'baby's room' is offset from our own sleeping area on the next floor, which I hope will help with sleep.
Level 3
A master suite with a bedroom, bathroom, seating/reading/TV area and a large dressing room. Currently the ceiling height is around 2.1m but I'm removing the ceiling completely, redoing the roof, to open up a lot of height. At the ridge line the ceiling height will be 4.1m, with exposed beams.
Here's how it's presented in the agent's brochure.
The plan is to create a potential 'forever home' and continue the house's tradition of long family ownership. The property had a lot going for it (location, value, potential etc) so we stretched ourselves financially when it came to buying it. As a consequence the renovation budget is fair, but less than I'd like to be working with for something of this scope. Buoyed by the success of the Chamonix renovation I'm taking on design and PM duties again, supplemented with a professional designer and project manager, Jeff. He's mostly there to sanity check my design, polish it for technical presentation and to fill in the substantial gaps in my technical knowledge. This is clearly on a much bigger scale than my last project and definitely requires some more professional help. This time around I've no interest in doing the heavy lifting. I'll leave that to the pros and concentrate on the bigger stuff where I can actually add value.
A planning application was submitted in July and I'm expecting a response on that at the end of next week. The design includes a modest and, I hope, uncontroversial rear extension to the lower ground floor only. I've deliberately played that very safe to minimise the chance of planning hiccups. A tender pack went out to three contractors at the start of the week and, all being well with planning, party wall notices will be sent next week. If those go through without issue then we could begin work in November. If there are any disputes then it will probably run into December. I'm told the work will take 6 months (26 weeks) but I'm braced for more like 9 months. All said and done I hope to be moving in by 'This time next year (Rodders)'. We're living in a rental while the work takes place so I'm keen to finish as efficiently as possible. Not just for financial reasons but mostly because the rental doesn't have a dishwasher and I hate washing up.
Here's a snapshot of the plans:
Level 0
I work from home and my wife also spends many hours in the evenings and at weekends working from the kitchen table. The new layout includes a substantial office space that will work for 4-5 people (should I expand my freelance design work into something larger) and will double as my man cave. I cycle a bit and there'll be an area of the office dedicated to this, with my bikes displayed appropriately. This arrangement also keeps the lower ground floor as the 'engine' of the house, separating the office from the home as much as possible.
The rest of the floor is extended to give a large kitchen and dining area, with a dedicated larder, a small bathroom and a little snug tucked in the back corner. The rear is a 3-panel sliding door arrangement and there's a skylight above the dining area. The layout of the kitchen itself is just a placeholder arrangement. I'll be working on that in the future.
The whole floor currently has low ceilings, at around 2.2m. I'm planning to excavate down to take that to somewhere between 2.4-3.0m, depending on costs. The structural engineer seems happy with that and we've dug two inspection pits last week to see where and what the foundations are like. Those reports are due shortly but the current floor is suspended, around 700mm above the foundations.
Level 1
This level gets a dedicated utility room at the rear and two large reception rooms: one for adults and one more for kids. We'll keep some of the period features like the two fireplaces and the decorative ceilings and covings, all of which need a lot of TLC. The kid-friendly reception will double as a library, with storage up to 1m height and then shelves and displays above.
Level 2
The bedroom level. One family bathroom in the centre with two double rooms and a single. One of the doubles will have an en-suite. We haven't started a family yet but when we do we expect to need some help from a nanny/au pair/night nanny as both of us have relentless work schedules. This is why one of the doubles has an en-suite. The 'baby's room' is offset from our own sleeping area on the next floor, which I hope will help with sleep.
Level 3
A master suite with a bedroom, bathroom, seating/reading/TV area and a large dressing room. Currently the ceiling height is around 2.1m but I'm removing the ceiling completely, redoing the roof, to open up a lot of height. At the ridge line the ceiling height will be 4.1m, with exposed beams.
jeremyc said:
Not enough car parking. 
There's always a compromise and this, sadly, was the big one. No garage. Not even a driveway. In fairness though, Central London living sucked all the joy out of motoring for me and cycling has filled that gap. I guess I have changed. I always thought we'd end up moving further out and deferred my petrolhead plans for the time I'd have plentiful storage, empty lanes and no congestion charge. I'll have to rethink that now but, in the meantime, on the plus side; you can buy a kickass superbike for less than the cost of a cheap city car. Yes. Interesting to hear another house on the street has/had long time owners. I wonder if it's a common theme. If so it could be a blessing and a curse. Great for a sense of community but could also come with resistance to change.
One of our immediate neighbours contacted my designer while I was away to complain that he'd not been made aware of our planning application. He didn't want to accept that it's the responsibility of the planning office to notify him rather than us. I suspect the local vulture firms had acted quicker than the council and given him scare stories to sell their services. I've tried to reach out to him but haven't had a response yet. Hopefully he'll come around. It'll make the job much smoother but I'd also like to get on with neighbours as we plan to be there for the foreseeable future.
One of our immediate neighbours contacted my designer while I was away to complain that he'd not been made aware of our planning application. He didn't want to accept that it's the responsibility of the planning office to notify him rather than us. I suspect the local vulture firms had acted quicker than the council and given him scare stories to sell their services. I've tried to reach out to him but haven't had a response yet. Hopefully he'll come around. It'll make the job much smoother but I'd also like to get on with neighbours as we plan to be there for the foreseeable future.
Harry Flashman said:
Been looking forward to this thread! We are in the final stages of the full renovation of a house in Streatham - similar size, but not as interesting as yours. I would have loved a Victorian house, but we fell for a 30's house due to the street and location. Peckham is a great area to buy, and will carry on rising in value/amenities.
I have been posting on my thread sporadically - will do more as things start to look more interesting. If you would like a benchmark of how much things cost us, to keep a sense check on London prices, I'd be happy to share my geeky renovation spreadsheet with you. Just PM me. Total cost of a 2900 square foot renovation including loft has been around £200k. High. But not insane, spec. Almost Everything new except walls and roof.
Best of luck and please keep posting!
We lucked out with the location in a big way. It's a stone's throw from Peckham Rye Station (<10 minutes to London Bridge), two doors from an Outstanding rated school, backs onto Bellenden Road (the gentrifying hub of Peckham) and still close to the proper guts of Peckham for all the worldly treasures of Rye Lane. The hound also has some decent green space on our doorstep. To find all that with a ripe renovation opportunity, where we weren't paying for anything we'd be gutting, meant we couldn't say no (despite the lack of parking).I have been posting on my thread sporadically - will do more as things start to look more interesting. If you would like a benchmark of how much things cost us, to keep a sense check on London prices, I'd be happy to share my geeky renovation spreadsheet with you. Just PM me. Total cost of a 2900 square foot renovation including loft has been around £200k. High. But not insane, spec. Almost Everything new except walls and roof.
Best of luck and please keep posting!
One of my weekend jobs is to build my own geeky spreadsheet. Having yours as a reference and a template would be awesome, thanks. The jobs sound quite similar. We're going for 'high but not insane' too. Same floor area once extended, but we're also redoing the roof, excavating the basement level a little and extending at the rear. There'll be several steels going in, the floors need levelling and the walls need stripping back and making good after 173 years of settling. My budget is £300k, which sounds comparable after taking the extra stuff into account. That'll make your real world spreadsheet super useful!
Just spoken to the planning officer and he's going to recommend the plans are approved when they go before the board this week. As we're in a conservation area he was insisting on conservation style skylights on the top floor and on the flat roof extension of the lower ground floor. It seemed incongruous and illogical to demand conservation style windows on a modern extension with enormous panes of sliding glass doors on the vertical and I was able to argue him into seeing reason. Can't grumble about the top floor skylights though as that seems a reasonable demand. Nothing is guaranteed until the planning board has approved it but it's looking very promising now.
We met up with the seller of the house at her new home a few streets down and spent a couple of hours chatting. Lovely lady and as she's been there since 1969 her knowledge is a treasure trove of history on the place. She's a textile designer and worked on the lower ground floor (my new studio space), employing 3-5 people at a time. Her husband, the artist Paul Benjamins, worked on the upper ground floor and also had lots of people around. They've used one of the walls to mark the height of their kids over the years. Then it expanded to include their cats, their employees, the kids of their employees etc. Peckham was always quite a hub for artists. Every year he'd give his wooden floorboards a fresh coat of white paint, ready to get splattered again as he created his art. I'm keen to re-use some of the most interesting floorboards for something - I don't know what, yet - and preserve some of the history of the house.
Jaqui, the seller, gets on well with all of the neighbours (it seems many have been there for decades) and gave us a bit more information on our immediate neighbours. On our left is a young couple with a 2 year old kid. They've already posted a note through the door welcoming us and offering any help they provide. On the right is an older couple who've been there decades. I get the impression they're not so enthusiastic about change and they were the people who complained to my architect about not receiving the planning notice. Apparently other had received it so they got the impression they were being deliberately excluded as some kind of ruse. It seems they've raised no official objections. They've grumbled in the past about the tree in our front garden potentially destabilising the steps that we share, so they may be the kind of folk who like to complain. The party wall we share with the neighbours on the right stops at the top floor. The loft space is completely open. Apparently this was quite common in this period. Jaqui mentioned the neighbours were a bit sad it would be built up because they always considered it a fire escape.
On Sunday we've got the stags and hens from last years wedding coming to the house for what I'm calling the Before Brunch. I think it'll be nice to see the place as it is now, with all of its history on show, and then throw and After Party 'this time next year' when we've transformed it. Happily for you lot I'll be taking the SLR along and getting all the photos I can before we start smashing the place to bits, hopefully in the not-too-distant future.
We met up with the seller of the house at her new home a few streets down and spent a couple of hours chatting. Lovely lady and as she's been there since 1969 her knowledge is a treasure trove of history on the place. She's a textile designer and worked on the lower ground floor (my new studio space), employing 3-5 people at a time. Her husband, the artist Paul Benjamins, worked on the upper ground floor and also had lots of people around. They've used one of the walls to mark the height of their kids over the years. Then it expanded to include their cats, their employees, the kids of their employees etc. Peckham was always quite a hub for artists. Every year he'd give his wooden floorboards a fresh coat of white paint, ready to get splattered again as he created his art. I'm keen to re-use some of the most interesting floorboards for something - I don't know what, yet - and preserve some of the history of the house.
Jaqui, the seller, gets on well with all of the neighbours (it seems many have been there for decades) and gave us a bit more information on our immediate neighbours. On our left is a young couple with a 2 year old kid. They've already posted a note through the door welcoming us and offering any help they provide. On the right is an older couple who've been there decades. I get the impression they're not so enthusiastic about change and they were the people who complained to my architect about not receiving the planning notice. Apparently other had received it so they got the impression they were being deliberately excluded as some kind of ruse. It seems they've raised no official objections. They've grumbled in the past about the tree in our front garden potentially destabilising the steps that we share, so they may be the kind of folk who like to complain. The party wall we share with the neighbours on the right stops at the top floor. The loft space is completely open. Apparently this was quite common in this period. Jaqui mentioned the neighbours were a bit sad it would be built up because they always considered it a fire escape.
On Sunday we've got the stags and hens from last years wedding coming to the house for what I'm calling the Before Brunch. I think it'll be nice to see the place as it is now, with all of its history on show, and then throw and After Party 'this time next year' when we've transformed it. Happily for you lot I'll be taking the SLR along and getting all the photos I can before we start smashing the place to bits, hopefully in the not-too-distant future.
Disco_Biscuit said:
Crikey didn't realise it was Pauls house you was buying, I used to fix their cars, known the family for over 20 years, Was a lovely bloke and unfortunately died recently, They have a grey Fiat 500.
Very sad. They'd started planning a renovation of their own and then he fell ill. Jaqui is lovely and it's a shame I didn't get a chance to meet Paul. 
Had a few friends over for the Before Brunch today and I took the SLR for some decent before pics.
I'll start at the Upper Ground Floor as that's the entrance.
The hallway will be wider than this but we'll preserve the cherubs and reinstall them with a wider arch.
Front to rear. The old artists' studio.
Rear to front.
Rear reception. We'll keep a fireplace of some description.
The floor had a fresh coat of white paint each year, right over the paint splats of the previous year. Lots of history in those boards.
Ceilings have seen better days but will be restored, on this floor only.
The rose in the front reception has fared better.
173 years of settling. All the walls will be exposed back to bare brick and made good.
I love how blasé they were with the place. It was very much a working building.
Champagne and wood stain.
I'll start at the Upper Ground Floor as that's the entrance.
The hallway will be wider than this but we'll preserve the cherubs and reinstall them with a wider arch.
Front to rear. The old artists' studio.
Rear to front.
Rear reception. We'll keep a fireplace of some description.
The floor had a fresh coat of white paint each year, right over the paint splats of the previous year. Lots of history in those boards.
Ceilings have seen better days but will be restored, on this floor only.
The rose in the front reception has fared better.
173 years of settling. All the walls will be exposed back to bare brick and made good.
I love how blasé they were with the place. It was very much a working building.
Champagne and wood stain.
Lower Ground Floor
Hallway. Lower front door ahead.
Off the hallway into the studio at the front.
Front studio, looking through to rear studio and garden.
We added ourselves to the height markers. I was a bit too tall for it though.
Rear studio. Concrete perimeter to the floor, suspended timber elsewhere. The back wall will be extended 4-5m further into the garden.
The two inspection pits show 700mm drop to the foundations. Current ceiling height is 2.1m so that allows for a much better height already but we have permission to excavate another 300mm if we choose to.
Hallway. Lower front door ahead.
Off the hallway into the studio at the front.
Front studio, looking through to rear studio and garden.
We added ourselves to the height markers. I was a bit too tall for it though.
Rear studio. Concrete perimeter to the floor, suspended timber elsewhere. The back wall will be extended 4-5m further into the garden.
The two inspection pits show 700mm drop to the foundations. Current ceiling height is 2.1m so that allows for a much better height already but we have permission to excavate another 300mm if we choose to.
2nd floor.
Single room with a very low window and some not very square corners.
Front bedroom, showing the height of the tree in the front garden, still visible from the top floor.
Rear bedroom.
Bathroom, showing the low ceilings everywhere on the top floor.
The loft space we'll be opening up to give height to the top floor. The low brick wall is our boundary but is left open to our neighbours. It was once used to escape a fire in their property. This will be sealed off now though. The roof will need to be replaced in order to open the full height up.
Single room with a very low window and some not very square corners.
Front bedroom, showing the height of the tree in the front garden, still visible from the top floor.
Rear bedroom.
Bathroom, showing the low ceilings everywhere on the top floor.
The loft space we'll be opening up to give height to the top floor. The low brick wall is our boundary but is left open to our neighbours. It was once used to escape a fire in their property. This will be sealed off now though. The roof will need to be replaced in order to open the full height up.
The garden will receive only the bare minimum attention for now, until budgets allow for a fuller job.
The single storey extension will come to the end of the current lean-to. A sunken patio will extend 3m further.
The rounded shape of the rear is shared by three other neighbours but I'm not aware of that feature anywhere else locally.
We've budgeted realistically for good quality, I think. Like I did with Chamonix, the plan will be to apply the 80/20 rule and focus on those key items that really add value, being more prudent elsewhere. There are already dozens of 'while we're doing the work' ideas jockeying for attention but those pockets are far from bottomless and I'll need to be disciplined to contain ourselves.
Can anybody offer advice on a specific party wall process question?
The structural engineer's report is running two weeks behind and this is holding up the party wall surveyor's work. I'd like to issue the PW notices as soon as possible because that's currently the biggest threat to the schedule. For those who don't know, you are required to serve these notices 2 months before work commences but this can be shortened if everybody agrees to their content. I'm cautiously optimistic that the neighbours will be cooperative but one neighbour is the nervous type and could be easily spooked if corners are cut, especially at this early impression-building stage.
The architect/PM has suggested the notice can be served with the works listed as 'to be defined by the surveyor' and then agreement sought at a later date, once the full detailed work has been completed. I know that after 14 days without consent the notice automatically becomes 'in dispute'. The full details won't be available until 2 weeks time and then the neighbours will need some time to seek advice before they can respond. Assuming they consent to the party wall awards once they have the full information (but after the 14 day period has expired and the issue is 'in dispute'), does their consent nullify the 14 day expiration and we're all good to go?
The structural engineer's report is running two weeks behind and this is holding up the party wall surveyor's work. I'd like to issue the PW notices as soon as possible because that's currently the biggest threat to the schedule. For those who don't know, you are required to serve these notices 2 months before work commences but this can be shortened if everybody agrees to their content. I'm cautiously optimistic that the neighbours will be cooperative but one neighbour is the nervous type and could be easily spooked if corners are cut, especially at this early impression-building stage.
The architect/PM has suggested the notice can be served with the works listed as 'to be defined by the surveyor' and then agreement sought at a later date, once the full detailed work has been completed. I know that after 14 days without consent the notice automatically becomes 'in dispute'. The full details won't be available until 2 weeks time and then the neighbours will need some time to seek advice before they can respond. Assuming they consent to the party wall awards once they have the full information (but after the 14 day period has expired and the issue is 'in dispute'), does their consent nullify the 14 day expiration and we're all good to go?
Harry Flashman said:
Honestly? Speak to your neighbours. Whilst technically "in dispute", it's irrelevant if they are co-operating with you and just waiting for a report: the parties themselves have to push stuff through if in dispute - no-one is watching and automatically pushing you through the process. I would at least be telling them what to expect from you in terms of impact to party wall.
We had the structural engineers' report ready - that does make it a lot easier. Can you get another engineer, or have you already paid him? As you have 2 sets of PW agreements to do, I'd knock on both doors and speak to both neighbours, appraise them of the situation, start the process and simply keep talking to them.
I've made a start on that already. The nervous neighbours on the right have already said they're advised by a lawyer friend to accept our PWS and they seem to accept the work needs doing and was inevitable whenever the property sold. They'll want all the details but so far their only concern was that they thought I would be older, which I'm trying to take as a compliment. I'm meeting the neighbour on the left on Sunday but she seems genuinely friendly and welcoming so far.We had the structural engineers' report ready - that does make it a lot easier. Can you get another engineer, or have you already paid him? As you have 2 sets of PW agreements to do, I'd knock on both doors and speak to both neighbours, appraise them of the situation, start the process and simply keep talking to them.
The PWS has been appointed but I'm finding it frustrating trying to get direct answers to direct questions from him and the architect. I'm now told he'll issue the notices directly but I'm pulling teeth trying to find out when that will be or what needs to happen before he can issue them. I not good at coping with knowledge gaps and being at the mercy of other people to drive critical processes in a project like this, especially when (to me at least) it seems to be running inefficiently.
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