Getting 'valuation' of a unique property
Discussion
So we've offered and accepted on a unique property (as probably seen on previous posts).
Conveyancing has been moving forward, with mortgage valuation being done. Mortgage valuation was 'free' as provided by our current lenders as part of a mortgage port - however he raised one seemingly answerable point about 'marketability'.
In essence, it LOOKS like the property has been on the market for 6 months, but this isn't strictly true. It was actually marketed end Aug 2016 then the vendors accepted an asking price offer from buyers who were yet to sell their house. They were given til beginning of January to sell theirs and then start exchange / completion, but didn't do so - so it was back open to offers again, and we offered and accepted mid-Feb.
However it is a completely unique property (Church conversion) and always in the back of our mind was the question 'how do we truly understand what it is worth...'?
Yes, to a certain extent, we can flip that by saying 'what's it worth TO US' and actually what we've offered is probably about right for that. But we are considering getting a proper independent valuation 'to be sure' - my only concern being it won't be that easy to get anywhere near an accurate figure!
We know what the current owners paid for the building (a pittance) but not what they've invested in it (its pretty high spec, plus work to the fabric of the building as well) so can't even value it as a % uplift, or a new build calculation.
TL;DR the missus is having minor collywobbles and we want to make sure we aren't overpaying for a house.
Next question, can anyone recommend a good independent valuer that covers North Essex and would help make sure of our numbers.
(Mortgage company valuation is one thing, but not only has it raised that minor question mark, I'm conscious that they are protecting Santander's interests not ours, and with us putting more £ in than the mortgage company, there's really very little risk for them...)
Conveyancing has been moving forward, with mortgage valuation being done. Mortgage valuation was 'free' as provided by our current lenders as part of a mortgage port - however he raised one seemingly answerable point about 'marketability'.
In essence, it LOOKS like the property has been on the market for 6 months, but this isn't strictly true. It was actually marketed end Aug 2016 then the vendors accepted an asking price offer from buyers who were yet to sell their house. They were given til beginning of January to sell theirs and then start exchange / completion, but didn't do so - so it was back open to offers again, and we offered and accepted mid-Feb.
However it is a completely unique property (Church conversion) and always in the back of our mind was the question 'how do we truly understand what it is worth...'?
Yes, to a certain extent, we can flip that by saying 'what's it worth TO US' and actually what we've offered is probably about right for that. But we are considering getting a proper independent valuation 'to be sure' - my only concern being it won't be that easy to get anywhere near an accurate figure!
We know what the current owners paid for the building (a pittance) but not what they've invested in it (its pretty high spec, plus work to the fabric of the building as well) so can't even value it as a % uplift, or a new build calculation.
TL;DR the missus is having minor collywobbles and we want to make sure we aren't overpaying for a house.
Next question, can anyone recommend a good independent valuer that covers North Essex and would help make sure of our numbers.
(Mortgage company valuation is one thing, but not only has it raised that minor question mark, I'm conscious that they are protecting Santander's interests not ours, and with us putting more £ in than the mortgage company, there's really very little risk for them...)
keirik said:
does it matter? If you think it's worth it and the mortgage valuation is anywhere near then don't worry. If it's in Essex it will double in value in 5 years anyway
It might matter if we need to sell again in 3-5 years for whatever reason, and are stuck with it.As much as I'd like the prediction of doubling in value in 5 years, I'm far from convinced. It's in north Essex, 15-20 minutes from a branch-line station which is still itself 1hr from Liverpool Street, so hardly 'prime' commuter territory. It is quite rural!
Happy Jim said:
As a rough guide, look at a bunch of big new build high spec houses in your area, work out the ££per sq ft and compare it to yours.
Sure, that's a 'rough guide' but there aren't too many big new build high spec houses in the area - and even if there was, the comparison to a Victorian church is a difficult one!Inkyfingers said:
If the mortgage valuer hasn't downvalued it, then that suggests the price is within a sensible spectrum. The only other option is to pay for a further survey via a RICS valuer (which the vendors might get the hump about, if they think you're trying to find an excuse to get the price down), or to find a friendly local estate agent who might be able to give your their informal opinion (often other agents will have valued it before it came on the market).
The issue is that those sorts of properties appeal to quite a small market, often because the layouts are awkward and many people simply don't like living in them, so it's likely to be more difficult to sell than a more standard house of comparable size/location. I'm not familiar with the house or the area, but around here, church conversions tend to sit on the market for a while, in fact there is one in our village that's been on for at least a couple of years, and with several different agents. It looks nice inside and is in a good spot, but many other house of similar price have been sold in the village while that's sat there.
Nerves are perfectly normal when buying a house, so don't let us put you off if you love it, but if there is a high chance of you wanting to move again in the short/medium term then a more standard house might be a better bet, so it's worth careful consideration.
Yeah I'll be interested to know if he does down value it. I think in any event we would like to instruct a RICS valuer to be a little more certain, as this guy is working more for the mortgage provider than for us.The issue is that those sorts of properties appeal to quite a small market, often because the layouts are awkward and many people simply don't like living in them, so it's likely to be more difficult to sell than a more standard house of comparable size/location. I'm not familiar with the house or the area, but around here, church conversions tend to sit on the market for a while, in fact there is one in our village that's been on for at least a couple of years, and with several different agents. It looks nice inside and is in a good spot, but many other house of similar price have been sold in the village while that's sat there.
Nerves are perfectly normal when buying a house, so don't let us put you off if you love it, but if there is a high chance of you wanting to move again in the short/medium term then a more standard house might be a better bet, so it's worth careful consideration.
I think you're right about the nerves. It isn't the area we were initially looking at which is an added complication.
Vocal Minority said:
Do you know how big it is? the per sq ft argument is valid but......I wouldn't look at new...
The way I would approach it is to see if there was a nice detached Georgian or Victorian house nearby for sale or recently sold and if of a similar size and had similar land.
Now the key is whether a church would attract a premium or a discount from this...and I can't answer that!
Speaking as a valuer, I have never done one a church conversion, so I don't know! I would ring a lot of local agents and ask a lot of questions. Whether or not it will appeal to the local market really depends on the local market.
As a bit of 'human' advice as opposed to property advice - if you are looking to buy it and very concerned about a future value, it's hard to say.
Character properties come into their own when you will love it and live there for year upon year upon year and lavish attention and love on it and make it a home, think about what it is worth to you, not it's value. If you think you'll get bored in 3-5 years, maybe something more conventional and easier to move on would be better.
As I said, I have no idea how to value it really, but the above is where i'd start looking. Sorry that's not much use
It is some use, given that even as a valuer, it presents a challenge to you!The way I would approach it is to see if there was a nice detached Georgian or Victorian house nearby for sale or recently sold and if of a similar size and had similar land.
Now the key is whether a church would attract a premium or a discount from this...and I can't answer that!
Speaking as a valuer, I have never done one a church conversion, so I don't know! I would ring a lot of local agents and ask a lot of questions. Whether or not it will appeal to the local market really depends on the local market.
As a bit of 'human' advice as opposed to property advice - if you are looking to buy it and very concerned about a future value, it's hard to say.
Character properties come into their own when you will love it and live there for year upon year upon year and lavish attention and love on it and make it a home, think about what it is worth to you, not it's value. If you think you'll get bored in 3-5 years, maybe something more conventional and easier to move on would be better.
As I said, I have no idea how to value it really, but the above is where i'd start looking. Sorry that's not much use
The agents particulars do have a 'size' on them, and its just over 3200sq/ft (305sq/m). The same money in the local area would likely buy a slightly larger more conventional property, or something with equestrian facilities, so there is (as there should be) an uplift reflecting the quality of the conversion and the unique nature of the building, but I also get that the market for such a property is likely to be smaller... so does this impact 'VALUE' or just the time it would possibly take to resell?
MTech535 said:
Sushi you have made an offer which had been accepted an now your are wondering how much it is worth?
I think you have got things the wrong way round.
I would think that given they already had an asking price offer that it is probably worth what you have agreed with them.
Haha yes. Well there's the question of how much its worth to us (and its worth the price we've offered, we think!) but also how much it is worth to everyone else.I think you have got things the wrong way round.
I would think that given they already had an asking price offer that it is probably worth what you have agreed with them.
I am pleased there was an asking price offer (we've offered and accepted a fair chunk under) but since the people who made that offer were never in a position to properly proceed it does become somewhat of a moot point. I could offer you £10m for your house tomorrow, on the basis that I sell mine for £9m. You may accept, but if I can't sell mine, the offer is a little meaningless. Anyone who truly wanted that property would have dropped theirs by a few % and renegotiated with the vendor, or stretched their borrowing just a tad more to get it... no?
Sheepshanks said:
It must be somewhat reassuring that there was a previous asking price buyer.
The time on the market seems a strange thing to be worried about - perhaps that's a SE thing? Here in the NW some houses sit on the market for years.
You said you don't know what the current owners spent - was the work done recently? Wouldn't there be various guarantees etc which would give you an idea of the scope of the work and make it possible to estimate the cost?
Yes, the work is just being finished! They will have spent a LOT on it (Rako lighting controls, Siemens appliances in the kitchen, bespoke wood and copper (!) staircases etc.) The roof has been off, the floor dug out and redone, some new windows cut in, new glazing (to original style/spec), underfloor heating and air source pump.The time on the market seems a strange thing to be worried about - perhaps that's a SE thing? Here in the NW some houses sit on the market for years.
You said you don't know what the current owners spent - was the work done recently? Wouldn't there be various guarantees etc which would give you an idea of the scope of the work and make it possible to estimate the cost?
They were going to stay, but decided they liked the project so much they want to do another, so it was never done with 'develop and resell' in mind.
Yeah, I think a RICS valuation is probably a good idea and try and keep the missus from getting too jittery!
julian64 said:
You are the sort of buyer everyone wants to run a mile from. Your word seems to be worth nothing.
No, that's harsh. We negotiated a price we were OK with., although we were aware at the time it was tough to 'value' somewhere unique. Mortgage valuer has raised some questions (not us) which are based around marketability of the property should it need to be resold again, which obviously is also linked with value. So it has reopened the questions we initially had around 'value', which we had already discussed with the estate agent and purchaser.So this isn't, as you may think, us going back on our 'word' - but simply reacting to interim 'independent' advice.
Of course if the valuer says to the mortgage company 'be ware of lending on it' then we'd be stupid not to reconsider our position at this point. I can't believe you'd suggest it would be sensible or realistic to go ahead with the purchase just to stick to our 'word'.
For our own protection, I think it prudent to take some more detailed advice (more detailed than a basic mortgage valuation, who isn't acting in our interests but those of the lender) to properly understand the position. We aren't chancers, the mortgage is fully agreed 'subject to valuation' but if the valuation doesn't support our offer then we need another conversation with the vendor.
Unless you really ARE suggesting we go ahead and buy it anyway? Everybody makes offers subject to being able to get a mortgage on a property, surely!
brrapp said:
Valuers aren't magicians, they can't produce a valuation out of thin air. They have to rely on 1) previous valuations for that property with an index-linked update, 2) valuations of similar properties nearby, 3) valuations of similar properties elsewhere with an adjustment for area.
In the absence of the first of the above, the mortgage valuer will have used a combination of the second two to find his valuation.
Now that there has been a valuation made for this house, every valuer from now on will use the easiest method, number 1 from above. I wouldn't bother paying for another valuation yourself, whoever you get to do it, it'll be based on the existing valuation that you already have.
Really useful, thanks. I'm not sure there have been previous valuations for the property, as I'm not sure how far down the line the previous prospective purchasers got. Since they didn't sell their house, I'd not be surprised if they didn't get the mortgage agreed / property valued. And the last recorded sale of the 'building' was for a small fraction of the asking price now it has been converted (<15%) in only a few years.In the absence of the first of the above, the mortgage valuer will have used a combination of the second two to find his valuation.
Now that there has been a valuation made for this house, every valuer from now on will use the easiest method, number 1 from above. I wouldn't bother paying for another valuation yourself, whoever you get to do it, it'll be based on the existing valuation that you already have.
Even on my last thread, when someone did some digging and found the property online, I'm sure some people said 'nice, but slightly over-priced'. That was our gut feeling too, so we negotiated lower - but if mortgage (not Estate Agent) valuations put this into question, it is something we need to consider.
julian64 said:
Everyone makes offers subject to a survey which finds things that can't be seen and would devalue the property to the extent that you couldn't secure a mortgage on it.
That is somewhat different to making an offer, and then once accepted, trying to decide whether you've done the right thing, or should pull out, or whether a random internet forum thinks the house is worth what you are intending to pay.
There is substantial chance once you have made an accepted offer that the vendor will be committing to financial outlay on the strength of what you have said. If your vendor read this thread they would probably stop moving forward and rightly so.
The vendor will be well aware from their Estate Agent that the valuation hasn't quite gone according to plan. So if they read this thread, I doubt it would contain any surprises...That is somewhat different to making an offer, and then once accepted, trying to decide whether you've done the right thing, or should pull out, or whether a random internet forum thinks the house is worth what you are intending to pay.
There is substantial chance once you have made an accepted offer that the vendor will be committing to financial outlay on the strength of what you have said. If your vendor read this thread they would probably stop moving forward and rightly so.
Part of the reason the mortgage company send a valuer round (valuer, NOT surveyor) is to verify that the property is a sound basis for their investment. If they don't agree with the numbers discussed between the vendor / purchaser, I'm afraid that has a clear impact on the viability of the purchase, since it has an impact on our ability to finance the purchase. Even if there's nothing structurally wrong with it, the valuation can (and should) make a difference. Or at least, make the purchaser double-check things.
As someone else has said, future valuations will also be based on this one, so if we didn't buy it, the next buyers (who need a mortgage) would have a similar issue, and so on and so on.
We sighed with relief when the mortgage valuation was done on behalf of our own buyers, and came back with no issues. That basically 'agrees' that our house is in the right financial ballpark. If the same isn't true of the house we're buying, we would obviously have to reconsider whether it was the right decision to move forward.
I can't believe you honestly think that, if the valuer comes back with a lower amount, and the mortgage company won't produce an offer as a result, that we should absolutely and without question still go ahead with the purchase at the originally negotiated price. That's madness!
Of course people commit money once they receive an offer on their house - but until contracts are exchanged, everything that anyone does is done 'at risk'. Its not ideal. It is a royal pain in the arse sometimes. But at least until your buyer has their mortgage offer approved and in place, you (as a vendor) really should be treading carefully. The same goes the other way. Until we exchange contracts, the vendor could change their mind at any moment - so I'm not rushing out to buy new furniture just yet!
We aren't talking about a semi-detached in a row of similar houses, with a resale history to fall back on, or a new build with sq-footage calculations all neatly worked out by the Estate Agent - the point of this thread was because this is a unique property with no sale history and little (that I could understand as a layman) in terms of comparative properties on which to make a value-judgment.
I started it because I'm getting the feeling that the valuer does have an issue with value, so asked how to get independent advice. I wasn't actually asking a random internet forum whether it was worth what we are intending to pay. To some people it would be, to others it wouldn't. Either way its a moot point as its just other lay people's opinion, whereas I'm hopeful a proper valuer will have some science and maths and research to back up his/her opinion.
Jaguar steve said:
I drove past the house in question a few days ago. It's unique - there's nothing like it in the area to my knowledge and the type of place you'd buy rather more with your heart and not so much with your head.
Bottom line is its worth what its worth to you - you can't make robust comparisons with similar property in the area because there isn't any or look at £ per M2 because that only really works on identikit housing estates or even decide if its going to be a good investment because nobody knows.
We viewed several character and period houses a little north of that area a couple of years ago and knowingly overpaid to secure exactly the house we wanted rather than trying to screw every penny out of the best possible deal on paper. Sometimes that's what you have to do to get what you want and pushing too hard will leave you with nothing but a pile of bills from surveyors and solicitors as well as a house you're trying to sell that'll eventually get tainted because it's been on the market for a long time making prospective buyers start to wonder why it's not sold yet.
Nobody can make the decision for you no matter how many valuations you can get your hands on and at the end of the day all they are are best guesses with no guarantees. It's your money you're spending but IMO it's a lovely house in a equally lovely village and area.
Life's too short and all that...
Nicely summed up... Bottom line is its worth what its worth to you - you can't make robust comparisons with similar property in the area because there isn't any or look at £ per M2 because that only really works on identikit housing estates or even decide if its going to be a good investment because nobody knows.
We viewed several character and period houses a little north of that area a couple of years ago and knowingly overpaid to secure exactly the house we wanted rather than trying to screw every penny out of the best possible deal on paper. Sometimes that's what you have to do to get what you want and pushing too hard will leave you with nothing but a pile of bills from surveyors and solicitors as well as a house you're trying to sell that'll eventually get tainted because it's been on the market for a long time making prospective buyers start to wonder why it's not sold yet.
Nobody can make the decision for you no matter how many valuations you can get your hands on and at the end of the day all they are are best guesses with no guarantees. It's your money you're spending but IMO it's a lovely house in a equally lovely village and area.
Life's too short and all that...
That's exactly the way I'm trying to look at it, and to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if a valuer came back with such a broad spread (with the purchase price somewhere within it) that their valuation was utterly meaningless anyway - at least in terms of validating that it is a sound financial commitment.
Personally, if the conversation between valuer and mortgage company is such that they'll make an offer, then I'll be appeased.
Well... it seems the wheels fell off in a rather spectacular fashion yesterday, when I received the following quote from the valuer, via the mortgage broker:
"After a review of the information provided by the selling agent regarding viewings etc I can confirm that I am still
unable to recommend the property suitable security. Whilst the conversion has been carried out to a superb standard
there is a limited market for such conversions, especially due to the proximity of the graveyard. We are of the opinion
that the property appeals to a niche market and that the property would therefore not appeal to the whole market"
So the mortgage provider will not lend on the property at any price!
"After a review of the information provided by the selling agent regarding viewings etc I can confirm that I am still
unable to recommend the property suitable security. Whilst the conversion has been carried out to a superb standard
there is a limited market for such conversions, especially due to the proximity of the graveyard. We are of the opinion
that the property appeals to a niche market and that the property would therefore not appeal to the whole market"
So the mortgage provider will not lend on the property at any price!
TA14 said:
Time for a new broker and mortgage company.
With respect, I'm not sure that would help.Assuming the valuer is independent of the mortgage company (and he's certainly independent of the mortgage broker!) then the issue is with neither the mortgage company or the broker! It is the valuer who is recommending that the mortgage company do not lend on the property.
I don't know whether the valuer IS independent of the mortgage company, that's something I'll be asking this morning... but if what others have already said on this thread is true (and I've no reason to doubt it) then the easiest way for the next 'valuer' to reach a value is by using any previous valuations as a starting point.
So whilst there almost certainly will be lenders who will lend on the property, there's no guarantee that this recommendation won't taint other people's view either. Or not be a view shared by other valuers.
It isn't like we were going balls-deep for a mortgage anyway. It was less than 50% LTV, so the bank's exposure, whilst not negligible, was always less than ours. I could even have envisaged a scenario whereby the valuer came back with a lower figure to reflect the 'risk' of a slow resale - but to recommend refusing to lend on it at all was a big shock.
Time to speak to broker and Estate Agent and see what they say.
PositronicRay said:
I'd find this very off putting, even if you get sorted, you'll be conscious of a potential resale nightmare.
That's very much the situation we find ourselves in.Even if we scrape around and find someone prepared to lend, an already limited market of potential buyers is now reduced further to exclude 'purchasers who want to use a High Street lender'.
Of course all of this is moot if we don't want/need to sell again, but if there's another property squeeze on the way (whether ripples from the London market, or Brexit-based) then it is the character homes which stay around longest and are the toughest to sell. People want 'safe' at that point.
paulrockliffe said:
My initial response is that that's a load of b
ks, but then I remembered that my wife wouldn't let us look at a couple of converted churches because of the risk of ghosts.
I'm guessing high-street lender that has plenty of other people to lend to? Go to a specialist and see if you get on.
Before I got to your last post, I was going to suggest that you don't need another valuation, though you may need another valuer. The question to ask isn't how much is this worth, but how much would you have to discount it if you needed to move in a reasonable time-frame? You'd be looking to tempt buyers lower down the ladder to jump up for your property by moving it into their price range and competing with worse properties that don't have close proximity to dead people. Maybe a valuer can help with that, maybe you just need to find the sold prices for other stuff nearby that's less and judge the point someone would choose to jump to your property.
So the last paragraph makes total sense to me, and is exactly what I was thinking. However it seems to be black and white in the Valuer's eyes - he's not valued it lower, but has recommended that they don't lend at all.ks, but then I remembered that my wife wouldn't let us look at a couple of converted churches because of the risk of ghosts.I'm guessing high-street lender that has plenty of other people to lend to? Go to a specialist and see if you get on.
Before I got to your last post, I was going to suggest that you don't need another valuation, though you may need another valuer. The question to ask isn't how much is this worth, but how much would you have to discount it if you needed to move in a reasonable time-frame? You'd be looking to tempt buyers lower down the ladder to jump up for your property by moving it into their price range and competing with worse properties that don't have close proximity to dead people. Maybe a valuer can help with that, maybe you just need to find the sold prices for other stuff nearby that's less and judge the point someone would choose to jump to your property.
The logic seems right - but perhaps there's a self-fulfilling prophecy with valuers putting lower values on properties for these 'marketability' reasons. If a valuer said a property is worth £1m, but only £800k if you wanted a quick sale (to tempt buyers from lower down the ladder) then this would immediately revalue the property at £800k, and you'd then need to tempt buyers from even lower, etc. etc.
God knows.
TA14 said:
No, the valuer has to value for a sale between a willing seller and a willing buyer. In your example he would have to value at £1M with a footnote that if a quick sale is required the discount needed to be given may be a higher % than for a more conventional property. (Otherwise, as you point out, you'd end up with the property being valued at £1.)
So... for a valuer to recommend to a mortgage company not to lend at all, says what? That reducing it for a quick sale won't work?TA14 said:
It means you need a new valuer and possibly different mort co. unless there's a major issue that you're not mentioning.
The only other scenario is that you're the only person who will ever buy it and no matter how cheap no one will ever be interested in that property. Do you really think that this is the situation? If you believe this you may as well post up the Rightmove link.
Oh, we'd definitely need a new mortgage company. That's a given. The valuer was instructed by the mortgage company, so we had no control over that. That's why I was asking about getting an 'independent' valuation - a second opinion, without ties or links to the mortgage company. The only other scenario is that you're the only person who will ever buy it and no matter how cheap no one will ever be interested in that property. Do you really think that this is the situation? If you believe this you may as well post up the Rightmove link.
No, I don't believe that we are the only people, no matter how cheap, who would ever be interested in buying it. Of course not!
But you can have a Rightmove link anyway: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
Valuer agrees the conversion is a superb one (the owners haven't skimped on anything, or cut any corners in fit/finish) but he is absolutely fine to go down on record to recommend the mortgage don't lend on it.
Unless he's on their payroll (and isn't independent) I can't see how that's the mortgage company's problem. They're just reacting to the advice given to them.
Switching to another lender would definitely cost more. How much more I don't know yet. But if the property is now difficult to mortgage, that's as much the vendor's problem as it is ours. In many ways its a greater problem to them, as we could walk away and either stay put or find an alternative, whereas they're 'stuck' with a property that's likely to be increasingly hard to sell at anywhere close to their asking price.
But its hard to argue with the fact that if the valuer is 'paid' to give this advice (whether on their payroll or instructed for this job), and he stands by it, then although every man and his dog says 'lovely house', we struggle to get a mortgage even when putting down more money thank the bank are. And at the end of the day, no matter whether his opinion is right or wrong, he's the 'authority' as far as this goes, so he's 'right' regardless.
Bloody annoying.
paulrockliffe said:
I'm not sure they're saying that exactly, they're saying it might not be saleable quickly. If that's not compatible with the lenders business model, then they won't lend, but it's the lender that makes that call. It's still worth what it's worth, but they're left chasing you for an unsecured debt if you had to cut and run and that is a risk for them.
Now a 'proper' lender should be able to look at your profile and factor in the likelihood of you having to cut and run, your loan to value ratio and how that will change over time to work out how long they'd be exposed to that risk for and then make a decision based on that. You should at least have the choice of adjusting LTV to cover the risk.
No, it was somewhat of a facetious question!Now a 'proper' lender should be able to look at your profile and factor in the likelihood of you having to cut and run, your loan to value ratio and how that will change over time to work out how long they'd be exposed to that risk for and then make a decision based on that. You should at least have the choice of adjusting LTV to cover the risk.
From the wording of the valuer's message, it doesn't sound like the lender is making the decision, but that the valuer is making a recommendation that they don't lend and that the mortgage company are simply following suit.
We're already at a LTV of under 50%, and although that's not a 'magic' number, it does mean that we're putting more money in than they are. If that doesn't cover the risk, I'm not sure it is a sound purchase anyway!
Croutons said:
Strikes me this valuer is up to one of 2 things:
1) Considering the security from the lending "rules" or "principles" the lender generally espouses (eg anything weird is a no) or
2) they are absolutely completely and utterly incompetent.
Ref 1) Lenders like average houses because they have an average value and are good for the average buyer. They don't like things outside that. Which is why specialist lenders exist for all manner of otherwise entirely conventional looking houses that simply may have been built (for example) under a particular construction type (eg concrete), and plenty of mainstream lenders have the experience and common sense to know people want to buy them, so they fit within their rules or principles. Any decent broker should be able to advise as to who would lend on this, you have simply gone back to your existing lender, whose rules may not be clear to you.
Ref 2) There is a plot of land with planning permission (I assume) for a dwelling of a particular size (at the moment) with mains services connected. Therefore there IS a value, therefore it would be *at least some* suitable security for lending.
If you are so tied to your current lender that it's the only way this move can work, I'd suggest you aren't in a buying place anyway. If not, speak to any broker, who if they are in any doubt, can speak to the lender's rep to confirm where in the rules or principles they apply this would sit.
It isn't that we are so tied to our existing lender - although the ERCs would sting a bit if we leave them before November, but it wouldn't be insurmountable. The broker supported (in fact suggested) staying with our existing lender, since they have a good relationship with them (at least on the underwriting score, if not dealing with valuations!). 1) Considering the security from the lending "rules" or "principles" the lender generally espouses (eg anything weird is a no) or
2) they are absolutely completely and utterly incompetent.
Ref 1) Lenders like average houses because they have an average value and are good for the average buyer. They don't like things outside that. Which is why specialist lenders exist for all manner of otherwise entirely conventional looking houses that simply may have been built (for example) under a particular construction type (eg concrete), and plenty of mainstream lenders have the experience and common sense to know people want to buy them, so they fit within their rules or principles. Any decent broker should be able to advise as to who would lend on this, you have simply gone back to your existing lender, whose rules may not be clear to you.
Ref 2) There is a plot of land with planning permission (I assume) for a dwelling of a particular size (at the moment) with mains services connected. Therefore there IS a value, therefore it would be *at least some* suitable security for lending.
If you are so tied to your current lender that it's the only way this move can work, I'd suggest you aren't in a buying place anyway. If not, speak to any broker, who if they are in any doubt, can speak to the lender's rep to confirm where in the rules or principles they apply this would sit.
Broker has suggested a chat to see which other lenders would be more amenable - but it has obviously given us a big cause for concern that anything which makes it more difficult for US to purchase, would make it harder to resell in future as well.
That's quite a big worry.
You could argue that if this particular lender had allowed us to go ahead and purchase, there might still have been issues later down the line if we came to resell, and we'd have been none the wiser - but now having had one 'bad' valuation, it does open the eyes somewhat.
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