Luxating Patella

[HumbleJim]

Hi

Louis (18 month, 13.5kg, terrier cross) has just been diagnosed with Luxating Patella. We've seen him "hopping" quite a bit but never seems in pain.

He described it as grade 1, but will usually operate on grades 3&4.

Options are monitor to see if it gets worse or operate now to eliminate possibility of complications further down the line.

My gut feeling is to monitor, I'm not a big fan of surgery. Do you think I should get a second opinion?

[HumbleJim]

bexVN said:

Sounds like you've been given perfectly reasonable info to me. Many small dogs live fine with luxating patellas and we rarely do surgery unless it starts infringing on day to day life for them,

You are entitled to a second opinion of course but I'm not entirely sure what youare questioing esp as you are not keen on surgery.

Thanks Bex, sorry I did not make myself clear. The Vet started by saying he didn't usually operate at this stage. Then he went on to say that I would prevent further problems if he did operate. He then said if he was to refer Louis it would cost £2500 but he would charge £800-£1000 and was Louis insured.

The second part of the consultation sounded almost like a sale pitch (we only went in for his inoculation booster)

[HumbleJim]

Jasandjules said:

Keep him on lead for a while. Keep the exercise (distance) limited. Slowly increase it by 1-2 mins a week. If he starts to limp/hold the leg up, reduce the time on walks. Glucosamine and green lipped mussle (I think!) can also assist but Bex will confirm/deny.

He's done this hoppity (the terrier hop my wife calls it) thing since we had him (from about 3 months old) The Vet @ the time (this surgery always has different vets in attendance) could not find anything wrong, the guy today said he would have struggled to diagnose this at such an early age. All the legs come into play walking and full tilt, but sometimes one leg is held up when standing or the transition between walking and running.

Exercise wise he gets 1-2hrs a day with plenty of running and playing with other dogs. This can't be bad surely, he doesn't seem to be any pain.

[HumbleJim]

Jasandjules said:

Hmm, that is far too much exercise for a dog with a damaged knee. Sorry to say but I'd be cutting it down to about 10/15 mins and seeing how much, if at all, the leg improves.

How much exercise did he get as a puppy?

He's always had plenty of execise. The advice we've recievied has been the to keep the leg moving, muscle will help support the joint. He's not in any pain that we or the vet can find.

[HumbleJim]

digger the goat said:

Ahhhh- The terrier hop !!!

Both of mine do it but not as much as they did since I started giving them 'Newmarket joint supplement', which is glucosamine hydrochloride. ( Monty hopped every few steps but now hardly ever )

We only give them 1/4 of the recommended dose (as advised by our vet) and so 100g has lasted months.

Shop around as you can buy it at a fraction of some pet specialist shops....you know who I mean ..

Cheers, worth a try.

[HumbleJim]

Jasandjules said:

HumbleJim said:

He's always had plenty of execise. The advice we've recievied has been the to keep the leg moving, muscle will help support the joint. He's not in any pain that we or the vet can find.

Yes that is what I was wondering.

Did the vet say how much exercise? Because I've had to deal with three consultants in this in my time and none of them suggested more than 20 mins per day. One suggested no more off lead ever again though we did ignore that. I've also had to undergo (with my dog of course) two cruciate ops and the recovery phases, again this was minimal exercise slowly building up and if the dog started to hold/limp to reduce exercise.

When he was a pup the vet recommended 40 mins twice a day.

[HumbleJim]

Jasandjules said:

I would speak to his breeder - but that sounds like far, far too much to me.

No breeder terrier cross (mongrel) rescue dog.

[HumbleJim]

Jasandjules said:

HumbleJim said:

No breeder terrier cross (mongrel) rescue dog.

Nearest breed to him i.e. his main terrier and see what they say?

Just concerned at the advice given to you by the vet but I've only ever had somewhat larger dogs who take perhaps more time to mature. Perhaps others with terrier types will chip in with the exercise regime they used on their puppies.

Sheltie/Westie/French bulldog are the 3 main breeds so a complete Mutt.

[HumbleJim]

bexVN said:

Oh and no harm un supplements as long as they're good ones

What would you recommend?

[HumbleJim]

bexVN said:

Hi sorry work all day just home now. All I can say is we know plenty of terriers with it and very few need/ have surgery. The most common breed I've seen an op done on is ckcs but even that's been a few years.

Personally I'd say treat him as normal, exercise as normal as little dogs generally aren't affected by joint issues, and luxating patellas generally affect fit/ unfit dogs alike and don't worry too much but seek further advice if it does affect him.

I did misunderstand your first post. Obviously I can't comment on what you were told as it may be the right procedure etc (I am a nurse not a vet) but I could understand if you ask for another opinion but that will probably incur another fee!

If it were my dog I'd not be unduly worried if no pain is noticed. Though I may seek advice from an animal physiotherapist (though they usually work via referral!)

Edited by bexVN on Wednesday 12th February 20:06

Edited by bexVN on Wednesday 12th February 20:09

Thanks, my feelings exactly.
He's fit as a flea . it's almost like his leg is lazy sometimes, it never effects him when chasing and playing. If he does it, it's when he trots, when he goes into a gallop all 4 legs come into play.

[PositronicRay]

Hi OP here, I changed my user name.

Well after several discussions with the our vet, always the same conversation (needs xrays, lifting his leg so must be in pain etc, etc)

We took him to a different Vet in the next town that had been recommend to us.

He carried out an examination defiantly a Luxating Patella, no pain, doesn't mind manipulation, knee cap slips out quite easily but then just pops back on it's own. Then he measured the leg bones, one tibia is shorter than the other. Looks like that's why he lifts it when trotting and standing.

So no ops or xrays necessary, but use some joint supplement keep his exercise consistent and keep an eye on his weight.

It's funny I always thought one leg looked a little shorter, but just thought he's holding his hips funny to keep his leg up. It gives him a kind of wiggle when he walks.

I just wish I'd had a second opinion earlier.

[PositronicRay]

Thank's Bex

[PositronicRay]

Sorry to hear of the problems, particularly after surgery.

Sadly I doubt supplements will actually help, at best they may slow down degeneration of the joints helping to prevent problems when older. (I'm happy to be proved wrong on this though)

Our vet has an own brand he's recommended, I suspect it's a brand that's labelled specifically for vets. I've looked at the ingredients and this seems to be the stuff. From Broadreach Nature Plus

http://www.broadreachpetsupplies.co.uk/?route=comm...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dog-Joint-Supplement-Ingre...

Edited by PositronicRay on Saturday 28th November 08:28

[PositronicRay]

Looking at lists of ingredients is very confusing (and boring) Once current supplies are out I may switch to Yumove or something, it's missing turmeric but I could always sprinkle some on his kibbles.