When do you know it's 'that' time?
Discussion
My Westie, Jaz, is now 16 and a half years old.
She's been pretty injury and illness free all her life but about 3 years ago she started having fainting episodes every day. She was put on heart pills (Cardisure) which seems to have solved that for the most (occasionally she still has a little wobbling episode or seems to get 'locked' in position for a few seconds).
Then 2 years ago she was diagnosed with Westie chest where fluid builds up and she had big coughing fits daily. She was put on Corvental and Medrone for that. Again, that seems to do the trick most of the time apart from needing a booster injection every 8 weeks or so.
Then, about 18 months ago, I noticed that she seemed very vacant and I was not sure she knew who I was. She was diagnosed with old age cognitive disorder and takes Aktivait to try to help that.
And lastly she needs Urilin daily to keep her from wetting herself (which works wonders).
Bless her, she has more drugs than a coked up rock star!!
Whether it's old age or a mixture of old age and all the drugs she takes, she has for the last 6 months been insatiably hungry to the point where some days I am feeding her on the hour or, occasionally every 45 minutes. I will feed her and then she will start panting and staring at me, pushing her nose into my leg and basically pestering me until fed (she has never been like that in her entire life). What makes matters worse is I can only feed her small meals otherwise she gets terrible stomach pains and then wanders around the garden for 1-2 hours whimpering until she is sick. The vet believes this may be connected to her heart condition in some way but we are not absolutely sure.
Lastly, she cannot settle at all. She is now totally deaf so is never happy unless she is near to me and can see me (I work at home so always there) but even when I am in the room with her, she constantly roams the kitchen. dining and living room (one large space) for hours at a time. While doing this she pants continually as though it were really hot even though it's not. Eventually, this tires her out and then she will settle in her bed - normally around 8pm - and she's pretty much done for the day,
This whole episode (eating/wandering/panting) happens every single day and I am starting to wonder if she's happy. It breaks my heart to see her this way, not the Jaz I have known since a puppy. We do get the occasional wag of the tail (once a month) as though on some days she knows who I am and who she is (if that makes sense) but on the whole she just seems lost and unable to be at peace until she's worn herself out.
I have always said to myself that I would never let her suffer and will do the right thing for her when the time comes. However, her condition is not one where you can say she's in obvious pain or has limited time left. So I'm left feeling guilty some days just wandering if she's suffering and I'm doing nothing to help her.
I've cried so many times over the last couple of years when the vet thought she was ready for that final journey that I am prepared for whatever comes BUT.... how do you know in this case when it's 'that' time?
Sorry for rambling!
She's been pretty injury and illness free all her life but about 3 years ago she started having fainting episodes every day. She was put on heart pills (Cardisure) which seems to have solved that for the most (occasionally she still has a little wobbling episode or seems to get 'locked' in position for a few seconds).
Then 2 years ago she was diagnosed with Westie chest where fluid builds up and she had big coughing fits daily. She was put on Corvental and Medrone for that. Again, that seems to do the trick most of the time apart from needing a booster injection every 8 weeks or so.
Then, about 18 months ago, I noticed that she seemed very vacant and I was not sure she knew who I was. She was diagnosed with old age cognitive disorder and takes Aktivait to try to help that.
And lastly she needs Urilin daily to keep her from wetting herself (which works wonders).
Bless her, she has more drugs than a coked up rock star!!
Whether it's old age or a mixture of old age and all the drugs she takes, she has for the last 6 months been insatiably hungry to the point where some days I am feeding her on the hour or, occasionally every 45 minutes. I will feed her and then she will start panting and staring at me, pushing her nose into my leg and basically pestering me until fed (she has never been like that in her entire life). What makes matters worse is I can only feed her small meals otherwise she gets terrible stomach pains and then wanders around the garden for 1-2 hours whimpering until she is sick. The vet believes this may be connected to her heart condition in some way but we are not absolutely sure.
Lastly, she cannot settle at all. She is now totally deaf so is never happy unless she is near to me and can see me (I work at home so always there) but even when I am in the room with her, she constantly roams the kitchen. dining and living room (one large space) for hours at a time. While doing this she pants continually as though it were really hot even though it's not. Eventually, this tires her out and then she will settle in her bed - normally around 8pm - and she's pretty much done for the day,
This whole episode (eating/wandering/panting) happens every single day and I am starting to wonder if she's happy. It breaks my heart to see her this way, not the Jaz I have known since a puppy. We do get the occasional wag of the tail (once a month) as though on some days she knows who I am and who she is (if that makes sense) but on the whole she just seems lost and unable to be at peace until she's worn herself out.
I have always said to myself that I would never let her suffer and will do the right thing for her when the time comes. However, her condition is not one where you can say she's in obvious pain or has limited time left. So I'm left feeling guilty some days just wandering if she's suffering and I'm doing nothing to help her.
I've cried so many times over the last couple of years when the vet thought she was ready for that final journey that I am prepared for whatever comes BUT.... how do you know in this case when it's 'that' time?
Sorry for rambling!
Thanks both!
I am going to book an appointment with the vet - he's known Jaz for quite a few years so should be able to give me an honest and informed opinion.
We've been feeding her on lovely mince, home made cottage pie, steak and fresh cooked salmon recently to try to spoil her - that will continue
.
She cannot eat dry food for a number of reasons so hiding it is out of the question but I will start hiding treats around the house to see if that helps.
The 'you can never be too early' approach is what I am all to aware of - I really could not stand to think I let her suffer.
Thanks for the advice and support.
I am going to book an appointment with the vet - he's known Jaz for quite a few years so should be able to give me an honest and informed opinion.
We've been feeding her on lovely mince, home made cottage pie, steak and fresh cooked salmon recently to try to spoil her - that will continue
.She cannot eat dry food for a number of reasons so hiding it is out of the question but I will start hiding treats around the house to see if that helps.
The 'you can never be too early' approach is what I am all to aware of - I really could not stand to think I let her suffer.
Thanks for the advice and support.
Thanks Ali - I know what you mean re your dad.
I feel like a potential murderer when I think about this so I'm hoping a professional chat with the vet will help not only with my feelings of guilt but also whether my concerns are warranted.
I know I'm strong enough to do the right thing for her but want to be sure that's where we are right now.
God it's horrible!!
I feel like a potential murderer when I think about this so I'm hoping a professional chat with the vet will help not only with my feelings of guilt but also whether my concerns are warranted.
I know I'm strong enough to do the right thing for her but want to be sure that's where we are right now.
God it's horrible!!
ali_kat said:
I almost don't want to ask; but...
Any news on Jaz please mate?
Thanks for asking Ali.Any news on Jaz please mate?
The Vet says all her strange behaviour is the dimentia and that while it may be distressing for me to watch, it certainly is not for her as she really is not aware of things like we are.
However, I found lumps in her neck before the vet visit and a week later it was diagnosed as Lymphoma.
So basically she could have anything from a few weeks to a few months left. Right now she is eating like a horse and seemingly as content as can be with all her issues - she's fast asleep on the rug right now
The good news is that 'that' decision will now be made for me - as soon as she stops eating I'll know it's time.
I'm feeling very lucky that I can now just focus on spoiling her like crazy, giving her treats and great food when she wants and just allow her to be totally spoilt.
Knowing that time is limited is both sad and liberating - I can make sure her last months are the best and at the same time it will be obvious when I have to make that decision so can avoid any temptation to delay doing what's right for her.
During this time I'm coming to terms with it all and spending quality time with her. Many of us have to through this quite suddenly so I'm just glad I have some time to get my head around it all and make her last months the best
Hi Bex - I'm prepared for it being weeks but don't like to write it (we are silly us pet owners down as it feels wrong to say it, as though I'm letting her down.
Vet has said she's too old for treatment so we will just let nature take its course.
This is much better than a long drawn out dimentia situation I agree (been there with a family member). That is a comfort to me knowing that there won't be any long term suffering.
down as it feels wrong to say it, as though I'm letting her down.Vet has said she's too old for treatment so we will just let nature take its course.
This is much better than a long drawn out dimentia situation I agree (been there with a family member). That is a comfort to me knowing that there won't be any long term suffering.
ali_kat said:
Oh Gary 
I'm so sorry.
So long as she's happy she's fine, as Bex said - you'll know when she isn't & be able to do the best thing for her
Have you discussed the Vet coming out to you? It's much nicer for you all that way. And you don't have the agony of having to walk out & drive afterwards
Sorry, just a thought morbid I know xxx
I've not had that conversation but it is one that I will have. I actually have not even thought of 'the process' to be honest - what happens afterwards? Where do cremations take place for example? I'm so sorry.So long as she's happy she's fine, as Bex said - you'll know when she isn't & be able to do the best thing for her
Have you discussed the Vet coming out to you? It's much nicer for you all that way. And you don't have the agony of having to walk out & drive afterwards
Sorry, just a thought morbid I know xxx
I am not sure what is worse - having the vet come to me and then I let him take her away for cremation or what?
bexVN said:
It may be worth having a chat to your vets so you know, there is nothing worse than trying to decide at the time, I had great peace in knowing what we wanted for Jimmy.
Home or vets personal choice, people worry about stress for the pet, often pool elderly pets don't actually care, we rarely do home visits these days but then again we know most of our patients so well they are at ease with us, we take time and minimise any stress.
Cremation is what most people choose, your vets will be able to tell you who they use and usually have leaflets etc if you want to learn about them. You have choices with what you want to do after and if you want to usually a choice of urns (though I bought one from an online site which went with Jimmy as I had a particular wish about what I wanted)
I hope this helps a bit for you. Planning ahead if you have chance really helps for when it happens.
I guess I've been focussed so much on keeping Jaz happy that I have not even thought beyond that so thanks for the advice. Home or vets personal choice, people worry about stress for the pet, often pool elderly pets don't actually care, we rarely do home visits these days but then again we know most of our patients so well they are at ease with us, we take time and minimise any stress.
Cremation is what most people choose, your vets will be able to tell you who they use and usually have leaflets etc if you want to learn about them. You have choices with what you want to do after and if you want to usually a choice of urns (though I bought one from an online site which went with Jimmy as I had a particular wish about what I wanted)
I hope this helps a bit for you. Planning ahead if you have chance really helps for when it happens.
After having a very near death experience myself many years ago, I have a fairly healthy attitude towards death so I know what I want. I will have her cremated and will then scatter her ashes back up in Berkshire in the Thames where she was born and lived her first 6 years swimming when I used to throw her in because she'd rolled in Fox poo
(typing this brings back so many happy memories and has brought tears to my eyes!!)Hah... as I'm writing she's decided to come into my office and demand breakfast.... she's not silly!!!
CAPP0 said:
Hi Gary, I always click on these type of threads with a lot of trepidation - for me, it's like reading about someone else's (bad) situation when you know you will have it yourself sometime. I've mentioned on other threads, we have an ageing GSD who, whilst being mentally fit & happy, has really bad arthritis in one leg which significantly compromises her mobility.
On two very specific occasions this year we have thought that we had to let her go, once regarding her leg, once for something else, but they both turned out to be false alarms, so I think I understand how you're feeling because I've been in bits both times we thought "that's it". MrsC and I discussed at length that we will never let her suffer and we'll do our best to achieve the "better one day early than one day late" thing when we need to.
For me the worst thing about your, and eventually our, situations is the time-bomb effect; you know it's not far off but you can't be quite sure when it will happen. It's going to be hideous for any of us, but I guess all we can do is hold on to the great times, the funny things they did, the happiness they brought us, and whilst that won't be much help in the early days, it's something to hold on to. I've had a few dogs PTS over the years and I can still remember exactly what happened with the first one, and that was 20 years ago. He was a good lad
Good luck. "All part of life's rich tapestry", as my old man would often quote.
Thanks for that. I agree totally with what you say re time bomb. The strange thing right now is that she is totally fine in terms of the cancer - no pain, eating like a horse - so it's impossible to get my head around the fact that she'll probably go down hill suddenly and then she'll be gone.On two very specific occasions this year we have thought that we had to let her go, once regarding her leg, once for something else, but they both turned out to be false alarms, so I think I understand how you're feeling because I've been in bits both times we thought "that's it". MrsC and I discussed at length that we will never let her suffer and we'll do our best to achieve the "better one day early than one day late" thing when we need to.
For me the worst thing about your, and eventually our, situations is the time-bomb effect; you know it's not far off but you can't be quite sure when it will happen. It's going to be hideous for any of us, but I guess all we can do is hold on to the great times, the funny things they did, the happiness they brought us, and whilst that won't be much help in the early days, it's something to hold on to. I've had a few dogs PTS over the years and I can still remember exactly what happened with the first one, and that was 20 years ago. He was a good lad
Good luck. "All part of life's rich tapestry", as my old man would often quote.
She's been the most constant thing in my life for almost 17 years, and got me though my lowest points during my divorce 10 years ago. She's going to leave such a huge empty space behind so, like you say, remembering all the fun we had together is what matters.
Z4monster said:
So sorry that this is happening. Don't like to think of this happening to my two pals, Bert and Ernie, but I know time will eventually come for them too.
Lost Hamish after 17 happy years when his heart and kidneys started failing and he was too unwell to continue. Hardest thing I have ever done and I still feel tears even writing this now almost 6 years later.
There are pet crematoria around and I would think you can search on google for them near you.
I left Hamish with the vets and they dealt with everything but I didn't get his ashes or anything. If done individually you can have their ashes back.
If you leave them with the vet, their bodies usually get put into a freezer until there are enough to collect and cremate. Sounds horrible writing that down.
Just be assured that you are really doing the best for your pal and they really won't feel anything at all.
Thanks for your words.Lost Hamish after 17 happy years when his heart and kidneys started failing and he was too unwell to continue. Hardest thing I have ever done and I still feel tears even writing this now almost 6 years later.
There are pet crematoria around and I would think you can search on google for them near you.
I left Hamish with the vets and they dealt with everything but I didn't get his ashes or anything. If done individually you can have their ashes back.
If you leave them with the vet, their bodies usually get put into a freezer until there are enough to collect and cremate. Sounds horrible writing that down.
Just be assured that you are really doing the best for your pal and they really won't feel anything at all.
It is strange about the cremation. Half of me wants to take her ashes to the Thames but I'm also a believer that once you are gone the body is just an empty vessel and so I might as well just leave the vert to deal with it all because 'Jaz' will be elsewhere.
It's really good to have this thread as it's making me think about all this stuff.
ali_kat said:
garyhun said:
I've not had that conversation but it is one that I will have. I actually have not even thought of 'the process' to be honest - what happens afterwards? Where do cremations take place for example?
I am not sure what is worse - having the vet come to me and then I let him take her away for cremation or what?
I've never had to I am not sure what is worse - having the vet come to me and then I let him take her away for cremation or what?
However, this was prompted in my thoughts for you as we witnessed a couple leave without their dog the other week & it was heartbreaking for us to see them so visibly broken - I asked if I could help by driving them home!
Chilli died in the Vets overnight, and his body was returned to me to bury. I didn't know about cremation then
I took Bast's body into the Vet the next morning, they arranged the cremation, paid for it, got the ashes back and I fetched her from them (and handed them the blank, signed claim form).Scoffers having her 4th meal of the day right now
Craphouserat said:
Gary
Lost mine just over a week ago and sill have a few tears everyday - so my heart goes out to and everyone else who has lost theirs recently.
It's such a hard time - i feel for you.
Take care
Barry
Hi Barry,Lost mine just over a week ago and sill have a few tears everyday - so my heart goes out to and everyone else who has lost theirs recently.
It's such a hard time - i feel for you.
Take care
Barry
I've posted a few times on your thread so I know that you've recently gone through and that I will
Thanks for the kind thoughts.
Gary
ali_kat said:
Is it just my heart that goes into my mouth when opening this thread having seen Garyhun as the last poster?
Sorry - I'm trying not to post anything but other people do so I reply She's still eating like a horse, even came on the bed for cuddles this morning (well, I had to lift her up as she's short) and started wagging her tail.
I'm slowly coming to the conclusion this illness is a ruse to get fed more often and to obtain even more pampering (if that's even possible)!!!
ali_kat said:
It's okay, but I do worry!! It's like the effing cancer thread IYKWIM you open it with trepidation, not knowing if it's good news or bad news! I'm debating whether I should add my head shave in it as it is very relevant & as a direct result of it; or if it would be a bit "look at me".
She's a goodun & got you wrapped right abound her dew claw
Go and add it - then I can ask questions on the relevant section She's a goodun & got you wrapped right abound her dew claw Oh, yes she has
ali_kat said:
I'll wait til we have a 'run' of good news
Right from the moment she met you 
Good idea. Right from the moment she met you Yep, I still remember going to see the litter at 8 weeks. I was sitting on the floor and she came over to me, bold as brass. Walked onto my lap, jumped up and gave me a big kiss. She had my heart from that very moment!
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