Complaint against an airline - impounded Skydive Gear

[BigJonMcQuimm]

Hi

Looking for some advice.

Coming through Melbourne and our Skydive Gear (20k) was confiscated by an airline manager based on them being "Dangerous Goods".

Now, despite proving that they are exempt of all travel regulations with the relevant documentation,absent from the airlines own DG list, and can be taken either as hand luggage or hold, they were impounded.

On one leg of our trip - a check-in assistant even called DG and validated they were not Dangerous Goods. (We did 7 legs with the same airline).

We had to catch our flight, and so had no other option but to resolve this from the UK.

An initial letter to customer complaints was futile, with them only repeating the ground manager's claim that Sports Parachutes are DG.

I have spoken with IATA, CAA and FAA and all agree they are not dangerous goods.

Is it possible to file a formal complaint and get this investigated? If so what body?

Is there any other avenue we can investigate?

We have written a formal letter, citing the relevant evidence. As it stands they are still classified by the airline as DG and cannot be moved. We do not have a contact in Melbourne who can assist us in freighting them in any other manner.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

[BigJonMcQuimm]

Hi

The airline in question is Qantas.

I tried FlyerTalk to obtain emails, but most have been bounced back.

If anyone can provide valid email details, I would be most grateful.

I have tried :-

[e-mail] - bounced
[e-mail] - bounced
[e-mail] - bounced
[e-mail] - bounced

I will be in touch with the British Consulate shortly. Hopefully, they can assist raising this incident.

Many thanks

Edited by BigJonMcQuimm on Thursday 5th January 19:44

[BigJonMcQuimm]

surveyor said:

Qantas


Mr Alan Joyce Chief Executive

Email [e-mail]

Website http://www.qantas.com

Thank you Sir

Thus far, it appears not to have bounced.

[BigJonMcQuimm]

HotJambalaya said:

It's such an awkward situation, was it one flight number all the way through, or a different flight number when you change?

If it's the same you might have some luck chasing them in the uk, but otherwise you'll have to chase them in oz. why on earth did you get on a plane leaving £20k worth of gear behind? Unfortunately it's looking like bombarding them is your only option as well as threatening them with court action.

No - it was Lon -> Dubai -> Melbourne -> Christchurch -> Auckland -> Sydney -> Melbourne -> Dubai -> London

We declared the rigs at each stage. All with Qantas, all Business Class (except Auk - Syd).

We had no option - 1) We were traveling business class, and could not afford new tickets (no new tickets were offered). 2) We had sitters and work that we had to be back for.

We felt at the time and still do, we were 100% correct - having provided all relevant documentation that exempts rigs from travel regulations and we would sort it out the other end. The ground manager showed us Qantas Dangerous Goods list - and Sports Parachutes do NOT feature.

Furthermore, we were many hours delayed and were having to fight our cause at 3am on New Years Day. We had minutes left to get on board when we gave up the intellectual discussion.

I suspect, any other day, a real Dangerous Goods guy would have waved us through. (It took 15 mins at Sydney - when the check in lady was unsure and contacted DG - citing 16 years without ever seeing a Sports Parachute!).

[BigJonMcQuimm]

Does anyone know, do we have a case later on? The minimum we expect is for repatriation of the gear, at their expense and our convenience.

However, seeing how quite dreadful they have been, personally I would be interested in seeking compensation.

We only took Business Class at each leg, due to the 50+ kg (pp) we carry

No doubt.... wishful thinking - but do they have a duty of care etc????!

thanks

[BigJonMcQuimm]

hairyben said:

Yeah Id have thought travel insurance was your first stop.

Failing that, as you bought the tix presumably in the uk with uk credit card will it be the uk office of quantas you take legal against and will cc provider offer assisstance on "unacceptable/defective service" grounds?

Thanks chaps

We have gold cover from Flight Center - refused immediately.

We also have NatWest card insurance - refused as confiscated goods (Yeah I know :-( )

Will try IHI Bupa - 2 x travel - specifically taken for skydiving - I have little hope! (not checked policy for confiscated gear).

I refuse to use the house insurance - although we have full cover - including loss of our gear.

I have no idea if we have cover via the car insurance - but I will investigate.

I have managed to email six of the board members, but I have little hope.

Qantas customer care came back, and despite supplying 4 separate pieces of evidence that the rigs are exempt, are referring to Dangerous Goods.

FFS

Edited by BigJonMcQuimm on Friday 6th January 03:28

[BigJonMcQuimm]

Zeek said:

It used to be the AAD that got them nervous when I flew with mine, but I never had it refused. Almost all airlines specifically list them as being ok to carry, so this is unusual. I'd be raising hell with them.

Spot on. :-D

Despite showing the AAD Cypres card, and also showing them the relevant Cypres Documentation online, and verifying on Qantas's own website that they are not classified as Dangerous goods - they still assert they are. No evidence has thus far been produced to the contrary. The travel card is FAA approved and states they are travel regulation exempt. It also has a QR code for personnel to clarify further. If the TSA accept it - geez, anyone should!

I suspect, removing the DG label leaves them open to follow up. However, this must happen - or they cannot be freighted home.

We have spoken with IATA who designate DG, as mentioned, and have in writing these cannot be DG.

We are now being asked for proof that we got called out of business lounge, and evidence that the check in assistant called DG in Sydney. Quite why they think we would have a receipt, or would bat an eyelid is astonishing. At best a mild hilarity, as we have heard horror stories from other skydivers - *sob* now we know.

Surely, our first departure, being LHW, should have raised any concerns.

Not being funny but expect better courtesy, traveling Business Class.

I am currently penning a letter to the British Consulate. We need the gear back ASAP - as we have training camps. Alas - I cannot fly back in person from London to resolve this.

Edited by BigJonMcQuimm on Friday 6th January 08:41

[BigJonMcQuimm]

Zeek said:

Also Jon, you may have tried this, but the chairman of the Australian Dangerous Goods Air Transport Council (ADGATC) is a Qantas guy and they list his mobile number and his email address on their contact page [https://www.casa.gov.au/standard-page/australian-dangerous-goods-air-transport-council-adgatc].


ADGATC

If you are interested in attending or have other questions relating specifically to ADGATC, please contact the Chairman or Secretary below.

Philip.J.Naughton
Chairman
Australian Dangerous Goods Air Transport Council
Mobile: [phone] (61 418 667 154)
Email: [e-mail]

Helen Barton
Secretary
Australian Dangerous Goods Air Transport Council
Email:[e-mail]

Thank you so much, I have got in touch. Fingers crossed.

Airtec have also agreed to help.

[BigJonMcQuimm]

sneijder said:

This is my line of work, but I'm totally baffled as to why dangerous goods even come into this ?

Are you talking about a parachute, as in essentially a bag full of fabric ?

I've got the 2017 IATA DGR Manual sittng on my desk, let me know if you want me to have a root through.

Hi

Many thanks for offering your help.

It is not the parachute buy the Cypres AAD. When travelling, if asked, we provide the travel card :- https://downloads.cypres.aero/airtravel/

As mentioned IATA came back and stated the explosive and lithium battery are within carry on limits.

[BigJonMcQuimm]

HotJambalaya said:

out of interest, and knowing nothing about skydiving. Why do you need to take the explosive with you? can't you buy locally when you arrive in your destinations?

It is an integrated part of the reserve deployment system. If you get knocked out for instance, it will fire at a predetermined height and save your @ss.

The explosive is part of the cord cutting system.

As it is part of the reserve system, it cannot be touched by anyone other than a qualified rigger.

[BigJonMcQuimm]

sneijder said:

I remember similar issues when folk started flying more and more with ski avalanche packs...

Airlines have been very much in catch up mode with regards to lithium power units for the past 18 months when 'balance boards' from China started spontaneously combusting. There's no clear rules with regards to genuine mobility equipment, some airlines are switched on and if wheelchair lithium batteries are removeable, they're best in the cabin with the passenger....In the meantime training material still describes spillable wet batteries which are totally redundant.

You'd be best trying to contact the ground handling agents station manager if possible, if the airline are self handling look for the airline services manager at that station. You'll get a quicker response, going through top CEO level adds a filter of someone trying to cover their arse.

I can understand with new technology how airlines could be chasing their tails.

However, the unit was sanctioned by the CASA and Australian Government in 1996.

The new IATA regulations in 2015 regarding lithium batteries are exempt for the unit, being self contained and having .99g of lithium.

There is no reason what so ever Qantas can classify Sports Parachutes as Dangerous Goods.

How can any skydivers travel and compete going forward? It is totally bonkers and insane.


edit : How can it take 6 days to get a clear answer from their DG department?

Edited by BigJonMcQuimm on Saturday 7th January 21:06

[BigJonMcQuimm]

Puggit said:

:wave: Are you still at that Scandinavian outstation?

Clearly not Qantas's .... one full week - and still awaiting from Dangerous Goods.

What is that all about? Surely this is a simple yes/no - or are they concerned for compo?