Revising A Builder Invoice - Am I being Unreasonable
Discussion
Recently had a conservatory fitted by a local builder.
After a couple of days of no progress I decided to work from home so I could keep an eye on them.
It was obvious they had no idea how it went together & kept asking me to go & help. I had to explain basic trigonometry, amongst other basic things that a builder should know.
It basically cost me around 20hrs where I could not invoice Bloodhound for work done.
So my question is, am I being unreasonable in reducing the amount I pay the builder by 20hrs at my hourly rate, I think not, but was interested to see what others thought?
After a couple of days of no progress I decided to work from home so I could keep an eye on them.
It was obvious they had no idea how it went together & kept asking me to go & help. I had to explain basic trigonometry, amongst other basic things that a builder should know.
It basically cost me around 20hrs where I could not invoice Bloodhound for work done.
So my question is, am I being unreasonable in reducing the amount I pay the builder by 20hrs at my hourly rate, I think not, but was interested to see what others thought?
CedGTV said:
Just to indulge me, the basic 'things' that he should of known, what were they ?
And the trigonometry, would be what ?
Basic things.....And the trigonometry, would be what ?
Replacing structural M8 bolts at the ends of alumnium extrusions with self tapers into the plastic.
The stickers on the glass that say "this side out" being on the inside.
Trigonometry was required to work out the height of the wall plate as they fitted it 3" too low, despite me telling them the height as they could not work it out, they still fitted it too low, requiring it to be refitted, under my supervision.
Despite numerous calls to the owner to come to site, he avoided coming.
blindswelledrat said:
24 hours sounds a bit of a stretch unless you were literally building it with them.
If he agreed to compensate you, has he actually queried your deduction?
I was building it with them!!!!If he agreed to compensate you, has he actually queried your deduction?
He has just queried my hourly rate asking "can we charge that".
I think he should be grateful that I spotted the use of self tappers on a load bearing joint as the results of the roof coming in on somebody would have been far more expensive for him!!!!
Edited by IN51GHT on Tuesday 21st January 11:53
OK, this goes on some more.
The builder reduced the invoice by the amount I requested called it "customer reduction", we are now 100% paid up (have been for quite some time).
Monday an e-mail arrives for the amount they knocked off the invoice, claiming they never agreed to it & it was a "temporary reduction" they intended to "chase us for later" as it was unilaterally applied by the client.
Basically I've told him to f
k off, but in more polite terms, he has sent on average 18 emails days chasing me, I simply reply "All communication to be directed to me via you solicitor, I will not enter negotiation with you as there is no balance payable"
Can he rightly claim the money retrospectively? I'm assuming not.
The builder reduced the invoice by the amount I requested called it "customer reduction", we are now 100% paid up (have been for quite some time).
Monday an e-mail arrives for the amount they knocked off the invoice, claiming they never agreed to it & it was a "temporary reduction" they intended to "chase us for later" as it was unilaterally applied by the client.
Basically I've told him to f
k off, but in more polite terms, he has sent on average 18 emails days chasing me, I simply reply "All communication to be directed to me via you solicitor, I will not enter negotiation with you as there is no balance payable"Can he rightly claim the money retrospectively? I'm assuming not.
The Surveyor said:
When you say:-
"The builder reduced the invoice by the amount I requested called it "customer reduction", "
what do you actually mean?
Did the builder re-issue his invoice with the reduction on it, which you have paid in full, or did the builder issue an invoice for the full amount and you deducted the £1,000 to which they verbally agreed would be a 'customer reduction'. If you have a reduced invoice you can tell him to jog-on, if it was verbal only then what paperwork have you got to support the reduction if it went small-claims?
He issue an invoice with the deduction on."The builder reduced the invoice by the amount I requested called it "customer reduction", "
what do you actually mean?
Did the builder re-issue his invoice with the reduction on it, which you have paid in full, or did the builder issue an invoice for the full amount and you deducted the £1,000 to which they verbally agreed would be a 'customer reduction'. If you have a reduced invoice you can tell him to jog-on, if it was verbal only then what paperwork have you got to support the reduction if it went small-claims?
Jasandjules said:
Can you please confirm exactly what the invoice stated....
If there were no caveats attached, then you have been invoiced for the work done and you have paid it.
It was a simple invoice stating an amount due, the "customer deduction" then at the bottom the new amount with the deduction applied.If there were no caveats attached, then you have been invoiced for the work done and you have paid it.
No caveats whatsoever.
Had an invoice hand delivered today also, we were out, suspect he wanted to "put the frighteners" on us.
I've simply replied wit the original invoice, detailing all payments made, date s& amounts, which total the amount on the original invoice he issued. Account was cleared prior to this additional invoice arriving.
I've simply replied wit the original invoice, detailing all payments made, date s& amounts, which total the amount on the original invoice he issued. Account was cleared prior to this additional invoice arriving.
wildoliver said:
Well he's going to have to take you to court for the CCJ and unless he's a stealth Ninja builder I'd suggest quickly removing a conservatory roof without anyone noticing may be a challenge.
Plus it would involve forced entry to site & causing significant damage to the surrounding structure, which he is not entitled to do.An example - You can’t take back goods if it would be physically impossible to detach them – e.g. if your flour has been used to make bread, for example. You can’t take back your goods if you would have to destroy, or do serious damage to, the other product to do so. For example, you can’t recover your glue from a sofa if you would have to destroy it in the process. In both cases, ownership of your goods passes to the debtor when they are incorporated into the other product.
Edited by IN51GHT on Monday 22 December 08:30
barryrs said:
Sounds like this is going to get out of hand as your both being hard headed imo.
I have heard of several stories where builders have sought retaliation for non payment by damaging the build. The one that springs to mind due to the time of year was a dads friend waking up on Christmas morning to find his freshly painted extension covered in splodges of black dye. The unpaid builder filled water ballons with black dye and took his anger out on the property in the night causing a repaint and ruining the UPVC frames.
4 camera CCTV will help us if that happens.I have heard of several stories where builders have sought retaliation for non payment by damaging the build. The one that springs to mind due to the time of year was a dads friend waking up on Christmas morning to find his freshly painted extension covered in splodges of black dye. The unpaid builder filled water ballons with black dye and took his anger out on the property in the night causing a repaint and ruining the UPVC frames.
This gets better.
Having hand delivered another invoice for the same amount yesterday, which I confirmed receipt of via email, the wife calls to say he's come around again today, banging on the door, then posts another (identical) invoice through the door.
To top it all off, he has just been to my workplace, I walk through reception to be confronted by him with, you guessed it, another identical invoice.
I simply said " I will no talk to you, I have explained my reasons to the boss, please leave"
The Police are now involved as in my opinion this constitutes harassment.
Having hand delivered another invoice for the same amount yesterday, which I confirmed receipt of via email, the wife calls to say he's come around again today, banging on the door, then posts another (identical) invoice through the door.
To top it all off, he has just been to my workplace, I walk through reception to be confronted by him with, you guessed it, another identical invoice.
I simply said " I will no talk to you, I have explained my reasons to the boss, please leave"
The Police are now involved as in my opinion this constitutes harassment.
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