How Would You Feel If I Did This To Your Child.
Discussion
Was at a Supermarket on Saturday. It was an in and out couple of items type visit. On the way in I noticed an agitated and yappy Staffie tied to railings while it's owner shopped. On my way out I noticed a kid of about 10-11 doing a very good job of calming and comforting the little beast. What I then saw was another kid, around the same age, walk up behind the pair shaking a cheap can of cola, pop the ring-pull and spray the pair with sticky juice whilst roaring at the top of his voice with delight. I was angry. It was nasty and thoughtless. It was also dangerous. The Staffie got a fright and recoiled. It could have reacted by biting the kid stroking him and as they were nose to nose bit him in the face.
Rather than just walk away I had words with the Coca Cola Kid. To get an idea of the tone I used parents need to think of that heart in mouth fright if something was to occur like one of their children running out on the road without looking and almost getting hit by a car. You know, that slightly out of control, emotional, "I maybe went a bit too far there" telling off they kid gets while the blood's still up and the heart's pounding.
I was venomous and aggressive. A proper old school ticking off that only the old boys off PH will remember getting off strangers and neighbours as kids (1960s & 70s). None off that "address the action and not the child" nonsense my teacher ex-wife would spout. I did address the actions with the Kid left in no uncertain terms what he did was thoughtless, cruel, stupid and downright dangerous. His friend's clothes and the dogs fur were wet and skicky on a cold day, the dog was upset, his friend's mum would have to wash his clothes, it was a waste of juice, the dog could have disfigured his friend for life, the dog would have been put down and it was all his fault. I also let the kid know he was nasty, thoughtless and an out and out idiot. The result was convulsive sobbing and snot bubbles. I then skulked off wondering if I'd gone too far.
Questions to the forum. Should I have just walked on by or was I right to intervene? Did I go too far? How would you have felt had your own kid been given a b
king off a strange adult? And finally as someone who at that age could be thumped, never mind just given a hard telling off" by teachers, the Police, extended family and neighbours if I were to step out of line then get thumped off my parents for doing something deserving of a thump of someone else and took it all in my stride am I wrong to think the kids of today are awfully soft compared to previous generations?
Rather than just walk away I had words with the Coca Cola Kid. To get an idea of the tone I used parents need to think of that heart in mouth fright if something was to occur like one of their children running out on the road without looking and almost getting hit by a car. You know, that slightly out of control, emotional, "I maybe went a bit too far there" telling off they kid gets while the blood's still up and the heart's pounding.
I was venomous and aggressive. A proper old school ticking off that only the old boys off PH will remember getting off strangers and neighbours as kids (1960s & 70s). None off that "address the action and not the child" nonsense my teacher ex-wife would spout. I did address the actions with the Kid left in no uncertain terms what he did was thoughtless, cruel, stupid and downright dangerous. His friend's clothes and the dogs fur were wet and skicky on a cold day, the dog was upset, his friend's mum would have to wash his clothes, it was a waste of juice, the dog could have disfigured his friend for life, the dog would have been put down and it was all his fault. I also let the kid know he was nasty, thoughtless and an out and out idiot. The result was convulsive sobbing and snot bubbles. I then skulked off wondering if I'd gone too far.
Questions to the forum. Should I have just walked on by or was I right to intervene? Did I go too far? How would you have felt had your own kid been given a b
king off a strange adult? And finally as someone who at that age could be thumped, never mind just given a hard telling off" by teachers, the Police, extended family and neighbours if I were to step out of line then get thumped off my parents for doing something deserving of a thump of someone else and took it all in my stride am I wrong to think the kids of today are awfully soft compared to previous generations? Edited by Tannedbaldhead on Monday 24th November 16:05
Lotus Notes said:
At least you stopped short of laughing and pointing at his runny nose and teary eyes..
I felt exactly the opposite. He was still a primary school kid. Have only spoken to a young kid once like that before. He was about 3 or 4. He had his fingers in the hinge of a public toilet door and when I saw it I roared (I was terrified at what I saw). Poor wee lad jumped out of his skin. I immediately dropped down on to my haunches and gently explained that at his age I had chopped off my sisters fingers when I shut them in a door and they had to be sewn back on (true story btw). His daddy who was holding his hand made the wee lad "say sorry to the poor man for giving him a fright".
Landlord said:
I agree with the principle of what you did (definitely with with fingers-in-the-door story) but if you'd have gone far enough to make one of my kids convulse sobbing and snotting I'd have made you do the same. Not playing the hard man at all but to reduce "my" child to that on a "it may have happened but didn't" situation (rather than the fingers one where it quite probably didn't happen because you shouted) is a step too far.
Leaving the child in no doubt that what they did was wrong and potentially dangerous but without making them. essentially, break down would have been more appropriate IMHO. Especially at primary school age.
Just my 2p and not a criticism. Offered simply in a broad-sample-of-replies basis.
To be fare I didn't shout or swear. It was a quiet but malevolent in tone. Think of a hiss as I told him he was nasssssty and thoughtlessssss. The kind of talking to you wouldn't notice till you're left wondering "bloody hell, what did he say there?".Leaving the child in no doubt that what they did was wrong and potentially dangerous but without making them. essentially, break down would have been more appropriate IMHO. Especially at primary school age.
Just my 2p and not a criticism. Offered simply in a broad-sample-of-replies basis.
Bluebarge said:
softtop said:
disagree, they are seeing the emotion of the situation. No one hit them, how do you think dogs deal with naughty young ones, snarl but no attack
Interesting. Do you model all your behaviours on what a dog would do? 
occasion forced to bite, quite painfully, a small child.Story was there were three children; two boys, and a girl. They were all dog daft and ran excitedly to every dog they saw, crowded it and not so much petted it but enthusiastically smacked it on the head. every aspect of their approach to dogs was wrong so I started patiently ramming home that dogs should be approached at walking speed, calmly and quietly. The owners permission to touch the dog should be asked before getting too close and if given the child should crouch down to the dog's level with a flat hand outstretched for the dog to sniff and the dog should come to the children rather than the kids go to the dog. Once petting the dog they should be quiet, calm, gentle and not make any sudden moves or loud sounds.
Two of them got it and were great, the third (who seemed to be in a state of permanent overstimulation didn't). Wee bugger had me a bag of nerves every time he met a dog and I reckoned it was only a matter of time before he got a sore one.
Eventually I told him if he approached a dog the wrong way if the dog didn't bite him I would. Like I said, he never listened and it was only a matter of time before he ran up behind a West Highland Terrier and petted it on the back. Wee thing jumped it got such a fright and being a man of my word I bit him (hard enough to hurt and startle but not hard enough to mark or draw blood.
Critics can say what they like to which I have one reply, a reply to which there is no argument, IT WORKED. He never rushed a dog again. His mum and father's partner weren't too pleased but strangely enough his father approved wholeheartedly with a "better to get bit by Tanned than a dog" attitude.
HertsBiker said:
TBH. Good work, well done. Someone needs to say this stuff,,even if the dirtbag in question is a child. Scare them young, maybe they grow up more law abiding. Imagine if the dog had have gone wild, what would young snot bubble have done then? Laughed? bd. And bd parents. And bds who talk big on the Internet about 'doing the same to you'. Unjustifiable protective parents boil my piss. No wonder their kids are feral scum.
The kid in question wasn't a dirtbag or feral scum in need of Deathwish III style discipline. Just an arse of a wee boy (which being fare most wee boys tend to be) who did something thoughtless and stupid. He possibly didn't cop on to the fact what he did was as nasty and cruel. I hope I wasn't that scary. More a case of making him very very aware of what he did, how nasty it was, how dangerous it could have been and that passing adults don't always walk on by. Don't usually run around as some sort of frustrated BiB and take a boys will be boys attitude to a lot of low level nonsense kids get up to that annoy the more "zipped up" members of society. Unfortunately for matey boy he did what he did more or less under my nose and it gave me such a shock I reacted.d. And bd parents. And bds who talk big on the Internet about 'doing the same to you'. Unjustifiable protective parents boil my piss. No wonder their kids are feral scum.slow_poke said:
Has anyone checked Mumsnet yet for what the kid's mum has to say about the bad man?
Major handbag fight. Half of them would say I was quite right, Half would have me locked up or beaten by their powerfully built company director husbands. Basically it would be a bit like here. Then again women can er on the overprotective side when it come to external discipline. I good example was when I bit my step-son. Dad was cool, his partner wasn't so pragmatic, mum (my partner) was a bit of an arse about it as well.FredClogs said:
You're out of order, mind you're own business you grouchy old fart, does it make you feel like a man making little kids cry? You're a bully.
No it didn't make me feel like a man. If I felt like a man I'd have strode off, powerfully built chest puffed out with pride thinking to myself "well done, that's that little bugger now knowing what's what and who's boss" rather than skulking off wondering if I went too far. I didn't look for or expect tears and was kind of surprised by the kid's reaction.FredClogs said:
Tannedbaldhead said:
FredClogs said:
You're out of order, mind you're own business you grouchy old fart, does it make you feel like a man making little kids cry? You're a bully.
No it didn't make me feel like a man. If I felt like a man I'd have strode off, powerfully built chest puffed out with pride thinking to myself "well done, that's that little bugger now knowing what's what and who's boss" rather than skulking off wondering if I went too far. I didn't look for or expect tears and was kind of surprised by the kid's reaction.ked you up), you lost control.RB Will said:
And one incident with a child not wanting to leave it alone, I had told the kid to leave the dog numerous times and it wouldn't listen. Got to the point the dog was hiding behind me and the kid was trying to reach it through my legs. Asked the mother to intervene and she thought her child was fine doing what it was, he just wanted to play with the dog.
Dog finally had enough and let out a good bark, kid ran screaming, mother gave me abuse.
Sounds like my middle step-son. Instead of giving you abuse his mum should have bit him. Mine's never bothered a dog since.Dog finally had enough and let out a good bark, kid ran screaming, mother gave me abuse.
Landlord said:
The people replying with "kids cry at anything"... have you actually read the following:
OP - I notice that your replies following your original post have mellowed in the description of your conduct compared to the quote above. Not sure if it's deliberate but it smacks of someone amending the "truth" to get the desired responses. Apologies if it's unintentional.
Anyway, as ever, all IMHO but nothing has changed in my original assertion that had I caught you doing it to my child you'd have been the one on the receiving end of venom and aggression. Convulsive sobbing and snot bubbles would be the least of your worries. Sorry, but when it comes to my children, the anger is strong in this one.
That all said, it wasn't my child so please don't get too worked up by a stranger on the internet having a different opinion to yourselves.
I didn't feel my replies mellowed. What I tried to do was clarify to some posters that I hadn't lost my rag and subjected the kid to a terrifying foaming at the mouth shouty rant. I also found myself annoyed at some posters describing the child as feral and a scumbag and probably sounded a bit touchy-feely, liberal and backtracking when I defended him as being stupid and thoughtless rather than bad to the bone. Everything in the quote below is a near verbatum account and accurate description of the tone of the telling off. As you say "you can reduce a child to tears by simply telling them off assertively". That's more or less what I did. Where I felt, on reflection, "venomous and aggressive" and thus not particularly proud of myself was when I saw the kid start to crumble I continued with the "do you know what sort of people do that sort of thing? Nasty thoughtless idiots" line. Tannedbaldhead said:
I was venomous and aggressive.
The result was convulsive sobbing and snot bubbles.
That is the behaviour of an adult losing control and bullying a child. You can be firm and authoritative without being venomous or aggressive. You can reduce a child to tears simply by telling them off assertively but to have them sobbing convulsively is too much. Any parent will know the difference between a child's woe-is-me wailing and a genuine, terrified sob. I wasn't there and can only go on the OP's account but it reads like the latter to me.The result was convulsive sobbing and snot bubbles.
OP - I notice that your replies following your original post have mellowed in the description of your conduct compared to the quote above. Not sure if it's deliberate but it smacks of someone amending the "truth" to get the desired responses. Apologies if it's unintentional.
Anyway, as ever, all IMHO but nothing has changed in my original assertion that had I caught you doing it to my child you'd have been the one on the receiving end of venom and aggression. Convulsive sobbing and snot bubbles would be the least of your worries. Sorry, but when it comes to my children, the anger is strong in this one.
That all said, it wasn't my child so please don't get too worked up by a stranger on the internet having a different opinion to yourselves.
Read what I said and note the tone in which it was delivered (quiet and calm so as not to upset the dog). It was cutting, delivered by an angry articulate adult who knows a quiet word alone can be vicious. It forced the boy to face what he did, the possible consiquences and how another adult looked upon him and his actions.
Tannedbaldhead said:
FredClogs said:
Tannedbaldhead said:
FredClogs said:
You're out of order, mind you're own business you grouchy old fart, does it make you feel like a man making little kids cry? You're a bully.
No it didn't make me feel like a man. If I felt like a man I'd have strode off, powerfully built chest puffed out with pride thinking to myself "well done, that's that little bugger now knowing what's what and who's boss" rather than skulking off wondering if I went too far. I didn't look for or expect tears and was kind of surprised by the kid's reaction.ked you up), you lost control.9mm said:
ATG said:
Some have suggested leaving the discipline to the parents. Might be worth considering that a bking from a stranger tells the kid that there are societal norms that they've got to stick to. It isn't just their parents who expect them to behave well, it's all of us. Understanding that is a key part of learning to respect other people, and that in turn is a prerequisite for learning self respect.
Exactly, parents aren't the sole arbiters of what's acceptable and what isn't, nor do they have the sole right to act on breaches of societal norms. Clearly there are limits to what outsiders should do but 'leaving it to the parents' isn't an acceptable norm.king from a stranger tells the kid that there are societal norms that they've got to stick to. It isn't just their parents who expect them to behave well, it's all of us. Understanding that is a key part of learning to respect other people, and that in turn is a prerequisite for learning self respect.Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff