Pit Bull attack, what would you do ?

[J4CKO]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greate...

Not sure on this one, how do you detach a rather large and powerful dog from a persons arm ?

[J4CKO]

My thought was to nip to the Logstore in the garden and get the completely sharp and evil Axe, one swing and it would be a mostly headless hound, without that to hnd I think it would be a case of using bodyweight down onto an elbow on its neck but it is amazing how strong dogs like that are, I remember a medium sized terrier attaching itself to my mums little Chihuahua, my dad struggled to remove it and he battered fk out of it, never mind a Pitbull, why the fk does someone have something like that in a little house anyway ?

[J4CKO]

I have been playing with a mates Staff (fnarr fnarr) and she is a lovely dog but I got my hand between her teeth and a toy, she bit down on it with enough force to grab it but I don't think she was going anywhere near the power of her jaws and I didn't half yelp when she bit down on the toy, she immediately released and went all apologetic and rolled over.

Staffs are generally wonderful dogs with people, it is just the power they can exert, they aren't even a big dog in the scheme of things, but power to weight they are incredible, a badly socialised/untrained/mistreated one is a liability, they can also be dog aggressive, I have ended up with a Staffs lead wrapped round my leg whilst it was trying to get my little Mongrel, girl walking it didn't have the strength to control it, if it had got my dog then it would have killed him, instead he got lifted by his neck out of harms way and unceremoniously dumped in a nearby skip, daft bint who was walking it didn't apologies or say anything, just swore at the dog.

Staffs do attract their fair share of cretins, its a shame as they are a fantastic dog if looked after properly, very trainable but there are so many stories of Staff goring other people dogs and the owners walking off thinking that their dog killing some poor old ladies Yorkshire terrier is in some way amusing.

they keep them in cramped conditions, they dont get walked, don't get neutered, so you end up with a bundle of energy with no outlet, same with the other breeds that people who have no business getting that type of dog go for, Akitas, Huskys etc, girl in our office got a Border Collie pup and though it would be fine all day whilst at work, needless to say it wasn't.

[J4CKO]

EnthusiastOwned said:

J4CKO said:

there are so many stories of Staff goring other people dogs and the owners walking off thinking that their dog killing some poor old ladies Yorkshire terrier is in some way amusing.

And here lies the issue. This thread highlights it perfectly. Dangerous, muscle bound dog = Staffy.

I bet my life savings most of these stories didn't involve a Staffy.

People know what a Staff looks like, there aren't many Dogs that look like a Staff, a Staff versus a Pitbull is a bit like a Rabbit looks a bit like a Hare.

It is partially down to breed traits and power but mainly down to the demographic who now get them, I am not prejudiced against Staffs, through experience I know they can be dog aggressive, they are people dogs, not dog dogs, I tend to keep my dog away from them as he is a bit over friendly and Staffs tend to either ignore completely or shred to death, we have friends with a Staff cross and that has to be muzzled in public despite their best efforts to train it out of him.

[J4CKO]

Type R Tom said:

Girlfriend grew up with dogs but when away at uni came home to a new one her parents took on. The dog while “protecting the house” attached her as she tried to push it out the way, it caused a lot of damage and she still has the scars. She spent the next couple of days in bed sick (probably with shock) and the dog ended up at the wrong end of a shotgun.

Hasn’t put her of dogs at all but it does scare you to see what they are capable of.

We have a smallish terrier type mongrel, even he can take a lump out of you if he wants to but in any scenario I can subdue him, he hasn't got the power to overwhelm mine and he knows who the boss is, I think play fighting your dog is good for them, my wife hates it and says he will attacks child but it is the fact he can play and not hurt means he most likely wont, he knows the difference and he knows that I can put him on his back at any time, he used to guard stuff and would bit, he learnt to hand over whatever he has for me to inspect and if it is allowable he gets it back, if not he gets told he is a good boy and gets a treat.

I love dogs, but they really need to know who the boss is and where they fit in the pack, even then they can be ill, scared or get something wrong, that is when having something you can handle is good, in fact everybody in the house needs to be able to handle it if left one to one with it as their responsibility.

I don't think there is a more wonderful creature on this earth, I don't get how people don't like dogs.

[J4CKO]

Fugazi said:

Hooli said:

Glad to see the amount of people defending Staffs here.

We've got two & they are both lovely friendly cuddly soft lumps of fluff. Surprising really as we kind of rescued one (took him in off a mate who didn't trust him with his kids) and in six months he's turned from a nervous scared dog who would nip or growl at the slightest reason (and had gone for a few people who ignored that) to a dog I trust completely.

As lots of others have said, it's how they are bought up. Exactly like kids & it seems kids who are bought up as scum bring up dogs as scum & happen to prefer Staffs currently.

This... We have a Staff/EBT cross rescue from Dogs Trust who'd been abandoned due to her deafness. We didn't pick her for her looks or size but because she was a sweet thing who has actually fit right into our lives. It seemed that whoever dumped her used to hit her as whenever I pick up anything that resembles a stick she will cower and run away. I actually can't believe there aren't more attacks from the way some of these dogs are and have been treated by some people, yet they still come back looking for love and affection. How are these dogs ever going to stand a chance when these idiots can't even bring up their own children?

Anyway, not content with ruining the reputation of the Bull breeds, I see chavs locally are moving onto Malamute and Husky type breeds. Wouldn't surprise me to see these portrayed as the new 'devil dogs' and people saying the same old rubbish like 'why do you need a dog like that'... It's happened before with Rottweilers, Dobermans and GSDs.

A friend of my mums daughter has the selection of kids by different blokes, lives in a small council house and decided a Husky was a good idea, A dog that is used for the Iditarod, 1100 miles across Alaska over ten days or so and then still wants to run on, is confined to the kitchen of a small council house and they wonder why it wont behave, I wouldn't get a dog like that, I cant provide what it needs so why a single mum of three kids thinks its a good idea I don't know, I am sure it was very cute when it was a pup but those dogs are a force of nature and very strong willed.

A friend of mine who sadly died recently had a Tamaskan, which was a mixture of those breeds and allegedly some Wolf in there (but I think he said that for effect) a magnificent animal and he was totally devoted to its every need, he was retired and would be seen walking him all day, every day, that is the kind of dedication needed to own a dog like that, even a small, low energy breed is a big commitment.

[J4CKO]

okgo said:

Some dogs can take a hell of a beating. Obviously slightly different but I remember watching that episode of Planet Earth or similar with a wolf trying to take down a bison or something, it was being kicked, stamped on, gored, for hours, it just took it, eventually the bison was exhausted and the dog won out. I was amazed how much it took, a human would have been left in a mangled heap but this dog just wouldn't let it lie.

Grew up with Alsatians, to be honest we never had an issue, and the ones we had were not that big, but I remember being at school once when the police visited, they had left a dog in the back of their van, the whole van was shaking when people walked by (it was obviously not in the best mood) it was clearly quite a big old lump!

Dogs are absolute nails, ours will careen into furniture, tumble end over end after a failed attach on a Pigeon where he has perfected the launch but neglected the landing and very rarely even yelps, he is an amazing footballer despite the ball being a good proportion of his size and I have seen him hit by a proper leather football, square on, at pace, when having a game when playing versus my kids and gone flying and he just gets up and it back, focused on the ball within a couple of seconds, if only premiership footballers could be that resilient.

He was grabbed by our neighbours massive Airedale, by the face a week or two back, comes round the corner, they are coming the other way and it grabs him by the face, we pull them apart and he is unharmed apart from being a bit slobbered on, has a bit of a go back (futile, it could eat him and have room for dessert) and then trots off home and mithers me for a bit of my lunch as if nothing had happened.

Dogs make me realise what a bunch of soft fannies some people have become.

[J4CKO]

andy_s said:

I don't think you should fk about with dog-ninjitsu, ball torture or sending a strong email, just stab and kill the bloody thing, why wouldn't you?

Edited by andy_s on Monday 11th January 16:14

yeah, your missus loses a hand and you get done for interfering with dogs nads.

[J4CKO]

ash73 said:

All dogs are basically parasites when you think about it, but staffs in particular were bred as fighting dogs and should not be allowed in public places without a muzzle, imo.

Parasites, really ?

We domesticated them and I dont think Staffs are out eating the public, it is usually within its own home or other dogs, but by and large, they arent a problem.

[J4CKO]

If you arent squeamish, go lon Liveleak and google Pitbull, I kind of wish I hadnt just was a warning, they are seriously formiddable creatures, like any big powerful, there was someone smackign one with a stick that had hold of another dog, it didnt let go.

[J4CKO]

soad said:

Hit or kick the dog in the throat, nose, and the back of the head.

Use your weight to your advantage. Bring your entire body weight to bear on the animal, specifically pushing down with the hard points of your knees or elbows. Dogs are vicious biters but cannot wrestle, so try to get an advantageous position and break their bones fairly quickly. Get on top of the animal and concentrate force on areas such as the throat or ribs while minding to keep your face out of clawing/biting range.

Hmm, had a hint of my sex life in there

[J4CKO]

Nik da Greek said:

Funny how the only people as intransigent as dog owners are the NRA in America. Guns don't kill people, dog owners who let their status symbol chew someone's face off do

Most Dogs arent status symbols, they are family pets which, generally people have for between 10 and 20 years and never have a problem with.

[J4CKO]

Our Dog is either in the house or our garden (where he is monitored by us in case he starts barking) when we take him out it is on his lead, he only comes off at known dog walking places, i.e. the common, at time when it is generally only dog owners, anyone who doesnt like dogs is probably best avoiding that place. I dont allow him to hassle people unless they want to fuss him, I take him in my local, there is a room where you are allowed your dogs and generally the landlord isnt overly bothered, the place usually has four or five dogs in, its part of the ambience, warm fire, functional (mostly) alcoholics and dogs, people come in to pet them, they cuddle them give them treats, the British public, by and large love dogs, in fact more people bother my dog than he bothers people.

I pick up his crap, bag it and bin it, he is insured for public liability.


The same people that cant behave, bashing car doors, swearing, dropping litter, vandalising stuff, missing medical appointments, getting drunk and smahsing stuff up, fighting, thieving are the same types that get dog and cant control, train, clear up after it etc etc, those with no social responsibility, those are the people whose dogs are problems, the dog generally isnt a problem if the owner takes responsibility for it.


The only time I have been bitten was friends overly spoilt little st of a dog that they brought round despite us not liking it (their current one is lovely) and it snapped at our youngest when he was a toddler, I grabbed it, it bit me, it hurt, they didnt bring it again, I think it was perhaps me saying that if it had hurt him it would have been disembowled with a bread knife

Edited by J4CKO on Tuesday 12th January 20:03

[J4CKO]

I think the problem is that dogs are generally very beguiling creatures, they endear themselves and we get so attached to them, all dogs pretty much do it, from the tiny Chihuahua to the massive Pitbull, you get either, or anything in between, you get a dog, sure there are different traits but a dog is a dog, but the trouble is I think people tend to buy bigger than they need.

A Pitbull can be a nice dog, I have no doubt, but it is that potential for damage, that power that is the problem, however well socialised there is still that potential if it does have a moment it goes from a nip or a bite to someones face being removed, ok we cant really have Pitbulls over here but people need to weigh up that potential and decide if they can accept that responsbility, the trouble is, like with cars, people are swayed by image and status.

[J4CKO]

Nik da Greek said:

J4CKO said:

Nik da Greek said:

Funny how the only people as intransigent as dog owners are the NRA in America. Guns don't kill people, dog owners who let their status symbol chew someone's face off do

Most Dogs arent status symbols, they are family pets which, generally people have for between 10 and 20 years and never have a problem with.

Probably the saddest indictment being that that's all you could find to object to in that statement

I don't get it, help me out here. Barely a month goes by without a news story about an attack by some devil dog or other... breed is irrelevant to the issue really. It happens. Dogs attack people, often with devastating consequences and life-changing injury. But if the overwhelming voice of this thread is to be believed, dogs never attack people. They're adorable companions who would only go near a child to lick the tears from its face. Errr... so are these stories just made up then?

A dog is just a wolf in a nice frock. They follow a dominance/friendship dynamic with their owner and that's all that keeps them civilised. When that fails, for whatever reason, the results are unpredictable. Sometimes it pisses itself and whimpers behind your leg. Sometimes it tears the face off a three-year old. Maybe it's the element of surprise that makes it such fun

There are nine million dogs in the UK, they arent generally running amok eating peoples faces.

Would you propose a ban on people owning dogs ?

Do you not think that 99.999 percent of human/dog interactions are not a problem, and as I alluded to earlier, mostly it isnt down normal dog ownership, it is down to people getting huge, powerful trophy dogs and not training them properly ?

Do you not think there is a reason people own dogs and get a lot of joy from having them ? everything on this planet has some risk, smart people mitigate that risk but dumb people spoil it, there will always be dog attacks but the headlines are generally down to ego and stupidity and have the same MO, that is what should be concentrated on, not nannying everything with a tiny risk out of existence for most normal folk.

Guns serve no other purpose than to kill and injure, so I dont think they are comparable, like when people say cars kill people, ban them as well, though I think some Dog owners get big, scary dogs because its the next best thing to carrying a gun for them.

[J4CKO]

Stickyfinger said:

J4CKO said:

Would you propose a ban on people owning dogs ?

Silly, why "expand" the augment to a level nobody is asking for....?

IF you wish to risk it in your home then fine, it is your kids face after all.

Try answering ONE of the questions.....why not muzzle in Public ? you put it on a lead don't you so why not.

That wasnt what Nik was asking was it ? I was trying to determine what he thought the solution was, Muzzles werent mentioned in the post I was replying to.

It will never happen anyway, I dont think any country has ever had a law requiring dogs to be muzzled at all times, the risk is tiny relative to the number of human/dog interactions, most of the really bad attacks that are in the news are in people homes anyway.

I dont think even with non dog owners there would be much support for it, except perhaps with big dogs or certain breeds.

On ours his rear end is significantly more dangerous than the front in my experience, he just sat on the windowsill in front of my desk and gassed me.

[J4CKO]

Autopilot said:

I've worked as a 'Helper' at a sports dog club. The Helper is the person who stands in a hideaway wearing a bite sleeve and well, you've guessed it, gets bitten on the sleeve by the dog. Most dogs I've trained with are used for competition sport (Schutzhund) but have also trained with a number of security dog handlers.

In answer to the original point of this thread asking what you'd do in the event of an attack from a Pit Bull, In my experience, if you were the person on the receiving end you'd really want to hope that a golf club / bread knife decapitator / screwdriver wielding person that has previously responded to in this thread is there to help out.

While the sleeve protects my arm from the bite, my biggest protection is from the handler. If they tell the dog to let go of the sleeve, they do it. If the dog is in mid air and the handler tells the dog to stop, it won't take the bite. Most of the time, I do of course have a dog hanging off my arm so can tell you first hand what it's like to have a highly driven dog hanging off of you (minus all the puncture wounds and pain that would accompany a real attack). In a controlled environment, I catch the dog, I know where it's coming from and which side it's going for. I then spin the dog on the sleeve to slow it down (and prevent any injury to the dogs jaw) so kind of spin through 180 degrees. The dogs are trained to do a full bite - ie the sleeve goes to the very back of its mouth. The ONLY way I can get out of there is by either the handler telling the dog to let go, or I pull my arm out the sleeve.

From time to time, it doesn't go to plan, I get the timing wrong and I get hit by the dog in a similar way you would in a running attack. I tend to stay on my feet by it's not uncommon as 40kgs of dog hits you full pelt to send me flying. It's pretty much the same as trying to grab hold of a moving car. If you're crawling around on the floor with a dog hanging off of you, you'd be VERY lucky to get back to your feet as the dog will be pulling like hell, shaking its head around. Even a 40kg dog will overpower a powerfully build company director type from standing. The dog's centre of gravity is lower, has four feet on the floor, so before you can even begin to struggle to fight with the dog, you need to be exerting enough force to remove the 40kgs from the equation, so if you can bicep curl a 40kg dumbbell (which doesn't fight back) left handed, then you'd probably be fine.

If something like a Pit Bull attacked and went in to fight-drive, you'd not have much to fight it with. If you witnessed the attack and waded in your only options would be to go for the eyes and hope the dog releases or get stabby / iron bar happy.

Edited by Autopilot on Wednesday 13th January 14:47

Good post, sums up how I was thinking, I saw a PitBull attack on Liveleak and it just hung on and dragged the guy round, same thing as our small dog weighing perhaps 8 kilos does to a toy and it is amazing, how much force he can exert for such a small dog, he can yank stuff back and forth like a shark does, seemingly oblivious to any potential effects so scale that up and it is terrifying, a bit like I hope that Squirrels never evolve to be any bigger.

For a man to stop a big dog, it could only really be via some kind of weapon and in the case I saw, even a hard a whack off a stick isnt enough, it needs to be potentially a fatal wound, but whether you could do that with a dog attached to your arm I dont know, plus you would need to find something suitable but the trouble is it is pulling you so your arm is outstretched, not sure you could get close enough, depends of course where it has got you, they seem to go for arms.

A Staff is smaller and lighter so, conceivably you could lift it up, still, dont want to find out.

[J4CKO]

durbster said:

Very interesting Autopilot, thanks.

What do you reckon about chucking a heavy blanket or duvet over it and using that to pin it down and offer some protection? Since these things happen in the home that might be more likely to be available than a machete.

Get it a hot water bottle and a mug of Cocoa as well

But I guess it might help I suppose to disorient it, ours will play bite through a blanket though.

[J4CKO]

ehonda said:

R8VXF said:

New laws coming in this year require id chipping, and no I wouldn't mind licencing if it meant repealing the DDA so that I could own a Pitbull!

Have a look at the breeds on the last ten years on this list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in...

If you believed those figures would you still want to own a pitbull?

It does seem to be about 60 percent Pitbull, Pitbull mix, then Rottweilers, Huskys and other big dogs, there was a Manchester Terrier in there, girl got bitten and died of heart failure rather than the actual injury by the look of it.

Also, the fatalities are generally small kids, older people and women, adult males seem to feature much less.

I wouldnt want any of the neighbours owning a Pitbull, unlikely in Cheshire but that is a bit of a liability for other people pets and kids in the vicinity, I can see why they are banned though I still think a lot of it is the demographic.

[J4CKO]

ash73 said:

I don't think it would make much difference unless there was an adequate training element. A friend of mine has a dog which looks like a mini Rottweiler, she did tell me the breed but I forget, and she makes every mistake in the book. It's bitten both her kids, and her sister's kid; if it was my dog it would have been destroyed immediately but she just says "it has issues". She's taken it to training expecting them to "fix the dog", I pointed her towards Cesar Milan to show why that's the wrong mindset, but she thinks it's cruel to discipline a dog by touching it(!). I also suggested indemnity insurance might be a good idea and she scoffed, at which point I decided to have nothing more to do with it.

Looking at the pictures on this thread I cringe when I think of other people's kids going round to her house. Most dog owners don't seem to have a fking clue how much of a liability their lovable little parasite actually is.

My missus has said to me if the dog bites anyone (other than playing) then its a short sharp trip to the vets, so that means he doesnt get left with kids unsupervised, worst he has done was dry hump my nephew, my brother was watching and said "I suppose I should stop it but its just too funny", trouble is people get very attached to dogs but miss the bit about avoiding them biting then when they do, they cant do the decent thing.


Our old dog never bit anyone in 15 years, only time she ever growled at anyone was one of the kids friends who was tormenting and hurting her, to her credit she didnt react, at that point we learnt to keep kids away from the dog as much as the other way round, some can be evil little sts who think its fun to torture animals, then the dog either has to put up with it as if they react they cop for it.

I dont think people get the fifteen year responsibility thing, a dog is a massive commitment, and people get them in inappropriate circumstances for the wrong reasons, every puppy is cute and adorable.