Older parents - dealing with stubborn Dads!
Discussion
Many of you will have been here before but how did you deal with elderly parents who dig their heels in about solutions to help their care, health and well-being? Well I say parents but its my Dad - refuses to move closer to us so we can help him (he is 150 miles away - we had the bungalow lined up locally and everything) and importantly my Mum (who would move down at the drop of a hat) and is very sprightly but is turning into a carer and feels rather trapped. He even refuses to move his bed downstairs to the 'parlour' and refuses to use a walker despite regularly falling. Everyone they know is either elderly themselves or dead but they do get a bit of home help. But if they were nearer to me and my family we could see them daily and help in all matters let alone give my mum a break. Healthcare (other than GP) is a regular 90 mile round trip for an octagenarian (in a DSG Turbo Golf 
) as NHS have closed all local hospitals - it would be 2 miles with us and I'd drive him to the b door...
I've warned him, bluntly, out of frustration, that other solutions for caring for him are far less pleasant and not what we want. He mentioned putting a gun to his head! Arghhh!
So any tips gents as all I get from mates is sympathy and I need practical solutions or at least mates that will bundle him, his crossword and his favourite armchair in the back of a van and drive him down!
) as NHS have closed all local hospitals - it would be 2 miles with us and I'd drive him to the b door...I've warned him, bluntly, out of frustration, that other solutions for caring for him are far less pleasant and not what we want. He mentioned putting a gun to his head! Arghhh!
So any tips gents as all I get from mates is sympathy and I need practical solutions or at least mates that will bundle him, his crossword and his favourite armchair in the back of a van and drive him down!
garyhun said:
You can take a horse to water.....
Assuming they are still of sound mind there is really nothing you can do. My dad is 81 and my mum 80, both live about 2 hours from me but they have all their friends in their village and so will stay until they physically cannot cope. I will support them in all that until they really do need help and need to be persuaded to move near me.
He's 8 years older than your mate and that point of coping looms ever near... Which is why I am trying to avoid crisis management! Now good luck with that 'persuasion' - its proving impossible for me.Assuming they are still of sound mind there is really nothing you can do. My dad is 81 and my mum 80, both live about 2 hours from me but they have all their friends in their village and so will stay until they physically cannot cope. I will support them in all that until they really do need help and need to be persuaded to move near me.
Olf said:
If he's anything like my Dad it won't make any difference and he'll live and die under his terms. And frankly not really making any allowance for how miserable he made my mum whilst doing it. Some people can cannot be negotiated with. Best thing to do is to let him get on with it and spend the effort on your mum instead - which will be difficult.
It's an impossible situation and threatening him with a stay in a horrible home isn't going to help at all.
Olf - very similar, this is really more about my Mum... It's an impossible situation and threatening him with a stay in a horrible home isn't going to help at all.
He's a great chap never ever has been selfish or stubborn (quite a role model in fact, a gentleman, RAF etc) - but age takes its toll on the mindset and now she cant leave him to come for a break with us and to enjoy the grandkids she adores (he doesn't really want to leave home so wont come). Which relates to the point in a post above - care home is not a threat its a reality that could be avoided if we get him near us, in a bungalow. I don't threaten my lovely dad - but we have to talk truths/reality. Not that it made much b difference - some dementia doesnt help the rationality sadly.
Antony Moxey said:
I know this sounds incredibly harsh and uncaring but is it worth pointing out to him what an utterly selfish b*****d he's being to everyone, especially your mum?
Marriage is a partnership but its all about him, and him only. So again I have had these difficult words. But as I say, nothing tucks. Nothing. Re post suggesting we move to the sticks as a 'thanks'
My family/livelyhood/lifestyle/3 businesses/home/schooling & kids count too. We would lose everything if we jacked it all in, they would lose nothing except familiarity of surroundings. My mum has her bag packed already for a buzzier more varied and easier lifestyle, and seeing her grandkids daily (albeit with worse views)!If I'm honest I want to hear someone say "we took dad out for a Sunday lunch and the removals van followed and he ended up happily living next to his living family after a little initial upset"! Sequestrado!
AlexC1981 said:
My parents bought my grandparents a bungalow in the late 70s/early 80s. They could not get them to move either! 25 years on, after my grandfather passed away and my grandmother was in her mid-90s she had a couple of falls and had to spend a while in hospital. My mum and uncle had to trick her into a nursing home by saying it was only temporary while she recovered from the fall. All she ever talked about when we visited was when she could go home.
I suspect the same thing is going to happen to your father sadly. Moving closer to him might be the only way to avoid this scenario. Or it might be easier to convince him to move in with you if you have room. Maybe you could get a bigger place or somewhere with an annex?
Hi Alex - I actually have had the plans drawn after the bungalow idea fell through as a 'plan b'. Would love to press 'go'! The issue is the moving itself not the space - he loves seeing 'his' mountains when he wakes up. Their joint wellbeing is more of a concern to me than a view they have seen 5000 times...I suspect the same thing is going to happen to your father sadly. Moving closer to him might be the only way to avoid this scenario. Or it might be easier to convince him to move in with you if you have room. Maybe you could get a bigger place or somewhere with an annex?
s2sol said:
I believe it is enormously arrogant to expect your parents to uproot their lives to live nearer you. You presumably left where they live to make your own life, yet you now expect them to move to where you are to suit you.
I suspect you are new to such issues, like me, but I think in the bigger scheme of the world/life when an individual doesn't actually leave the house/drive/socialise anyomre, the family care, compassion and support factor is far more important than where the usual armchair and TV are... Especially when the massively negative impact of any relocation for one working family far outweighs the relocation impact for the retirees. I appreciate you may see that as selfish, but its hardly arrogant. And all views (whether I like them or not) are good as I'm in a right pickle.Impasse said:
Antony Moxey said:
I know this sounds incredibly harsh and uncaring but is it worth pointing out to him what an utterly selfish b*****d he's being to everyone, especially your mum?
If my daughter ever talks to me in that way I'll tell her to mind her own business.Impasse said:
Why not wait until they ask for help? Insisting that your way is the only way is just as selfish as any claim you make of him.
I insist on nothing I only try to offer solutions to cries for help from my Mum and the problems that I see with my own eyes - housebound and with regular falls etc.Thanks for the input all as I guess shared frustrations were getting to me today. Any solution will be driven only by practical immediate circumstance I guess. Ce la vie. Cheers.
Dermot O'Logical said:
Dad still gets out of his chair and stumbles around clutching the furniture for support. The Zimmer has become a permanent feature of the corner of the lounge, and his walking stick hangs on the back of his chair.
Snap! What IS that!? I got a mate in to give him a lesson in how to use the walker (in case he thought it difficult/cumbersome). My dad thanked him for his help and advice and gave it a good go. He then walked to the kitchen, fell and landed looking at the walker he'd left behind! Still wont b use it!Just a little update...
The inevitable happened and he fell, at night, in his bedroom. This time he hurt himself so an ambulance took him in and he's been in for over 2 weeks. Dementia is worse and the wastage of his muscles due to poor appetite and lack of use means he cant really get up by himself now. He wont be going home I don't think as the hospital knows he needs greater care than my mum plus care workers that come and go can provide. So a full time care solution is being researched and they want it local to them. He keeps asking when he's coming home to be with 'his lad' and mum (haven't lived there for 30 years). Very sad. And I remain 3 hours away, virtually useless.
Maybe there is little I can do other than 100% being there for my mother and popping up every weekend; guess we all have to accept the situation and just support her in all the ways that we can...until the next stage...
The inevitable happened and he fell, at night, in his bedroom. This time he hurt himself so an ambulance took him in and he's been in for over 2 weeks. Dementia is worse and the wastage of his muscles due to poor appetite and lack of use means he cant really get up by himself now. He wont be going home I don't think as the hospital knows he needs greater care than my mum plus care workers that come and go can provide. So a full time care solution is being researched and they want it local to them. He keeps asking when he's coming home to be with 'his lad' and mum (haven't lived there for 30 years). Very sad. And I remain 3 hours away, virtually useless.
Maybe there is little I can do other than 100% being there for my mother and popping up every weekend; guess we all have to accept the situation and just support her in all the ways that we can...until the next stage...
FlyingMeeces said:
Ah crap, I'm sorry. 
Wish I'd seen this before I commented.
There is something called 'intermediate care' which is, basically, an NHS rehab placement to build muscle back up and stuff for physical recovery - it may, if he is motivated, be an option with a view to getting him home with lower care needs. Some intermediate care placements are specially funded within a nursing home, round here (Manchester) they have a whole intermediate care 'home' that's totally focussed on recovery and only has people for a maximum of 6 weeks. Some leave well and back to their previous level of mobility, most won't achieve that but are nonetheless stronger and need less help.
Nominally, it is possible to get full time care for older folk at home, in just the same way as for younger disabled people - but also, if he were granted the local authority maximum, which is something like 4 2-hour visits a day I think but varies, he would have far, far more one-to-one care at home than he'd get at any residential placement. Less passive supervision maybe, but in terms of actual man-hours of one to one care, it's far better. Whether or not that could work will depend mostly on whether he's physically safe in between, which is something an occupational therapist can look at - falls prevention is a big thing.
Really glad I posted in getting knowledgeable responses like that Wish I'd seen this before I commented. There is something called 'intermediate care' which is, basically, an NHS rehab placement to build muscle back up and stuff for physical recovery - it may, if he is motivated, be an option with a view to getting him home with lower care needs. Some intermediate care placements are specially funded within a nursing home, round here (Manchester) they have a whole intermediate care 'home' that's totally focussed on recovery and only has people for a maximum of 6 weeks. Some leave well and back to their previous level of mobility, most won't achieve that but are nonetheless stronger and need less help.
Nominally, it is possible to get full time care for older folk at home, in just the same way as for younger disabled people - but also, if he were granted the local authority maximum, which is something like 4 2-hour visits a day I think but varies, he would have far, far more one-to-one care at home than he'd get at any residential placement. Less passive supervision maybe, but in terms of actual man-hours of one to one care, it's far better. Whether or not that could work will depend mostly on whether he's physically safe in between, which is something an occupational therapist can look at - falls prevention is a big thing.
I'll look into that further and take the info with me to the multi team meeting at the hospital where next steps are being decided on Tuesday. On falls prevention he could thread an artic' up a Welsh country lane...but will he use his wheeled walker...??? GRRR!!!Cheers.
Thanks chaps. I get sympathy and sad looks from my mates, but these are the least useful things compared to practical advice and insight from others that have 'been there'. It's clear what he wants - to come home to the house he was born in with its stunning views in Snowdonia and to sit back in his favorite armchair. Mum & me would like nothing more if she can cope assisted with really proper help as outlined above here. Fingers crossed for Tuesday meeting. I also haven't mentioned the spinal mets from the prostate cancer, but might as well if I'm laying it out here, and meds will have to be administered by a nurse only. I keep saying 'circle of life' when my kids cuddle him but its all quite tough. Cheers.
Thanks Don - I have realised that, as you say, allowing things to run their own course with decisions taken only as they become immediately necessary seems to be others' preferred way. This feels a bit passive to me and might limit options but then its not about me and so me & Co will just be there as and when needed
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