PART II - Make a life decision for me

[advicedout]

Around 9 months ago I posted a dilemma on whether to take a newly offered job (with a higher salary), or stick with my current job. There was some great advice, and I heeded one particular piece of advice on what to do next. I had a call with my current boss and he subsequently agreed to increase my salary from £72,000 to £78,000, and so I stayed put. I'm certain the outcome would have been different had I not posted looking for advice.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

So as PH appears to be such a good place for anonymous career advice, i'm asking again. I've had a first round interview for a new role, it went well and I have been told that the next stage is a formality, so unless a major hiccup happens I will be offered the job.

Here are details of both jobs, and some additional personal detail to provide context.

Current Job:
In-house
Salary - £78,000 = £52,706 net
No bonus
Location - Northern city
1 hour commute each way
Usually work from home 3/4 days a week, no pressure to be in the office.
The job is becoming more challenging, scope and breadth has developed over the past year. Relationship with my boss is still excellent, no micromanagement, no unreasonable deadlines etc

Potential new job:
In-house
Salary - £95,000 to £105,000. Their HR person says this is the salary range, though will obviously only know definitively if/when they make an offer . Plus bonus (bonus level currently undefined) = so that means £62,566 to £67,366 net (plus bonus)
Location - 3 days working in Northern city (1 hour each way), 1 day working from home, 1 day in London
Northern City will be "home office" so any travel from there will be claimable on expenses.

Again, I apologise for venturing into vulgarity and mentioning specific numbers.

Some personal info:
29 years old, married, 2 year old son, own my own home, wife is a teacher but hasn't gone back to work since the baby, and we're going to be trying for another one later this year,

Some professional info:
5PQE lawyer, general commercial

All other things beign equal, what would you do? Slightly touching back to my previous topic, how much of a jump in salary would you need to move? Is even the idea of moving a tttish thing to do given my boss may have bent over backwards to get me a significant raise only 9 months ago?

Edited by advicedout on Wednesday 24th August 11:00

[advicedout]

TVR Sagaris said:

Interesting topic. Is the new job attractive in other ways? (Prestigious firm, engaging work?)

I think the new job will mean direct board contact, but similar level of prestige, and engaging work I would imagine.

davepoth said:

What's the potential for progression at your current place? Based on how cushy everything else is, if you are going to see £10k of pay increase in the next couple of years I don't think I could be bothered to move.

There is a pretty flat structure under the General Counsel. There are talks of additional hires and growing the team, but i'm sceptical as to how that would lead to progression for me.

Stylus said:

I'd be asking yourself if you're happy with what you're doing. If you've had two job offers in 9 months, I'd assume you're not and are actively looking?

JPJPJP said:

That you are still looking at other jobs despite receiving a pay rise and being in a role that, by your own description, has a bright future, indicates an underlying issue with the current role / firm imo

You should take the new job.

It might not be perfect. It might not even be better than the current job, but until you move, you will always be looking and wondering

Dan_1981 said:

Are you being headhunted for these roles or are you applying?

If you are applying then I think the answer is pretty obvious.

(I don't know if you apply for jobs as a £100k a year lawyer or if they come and find you?)

Both opportunities came from recruiters contacting me on linkedin.

BerksBoy said:

the family point is the one to focus on for me....

a. the one hour commute.. for that wage, I expect 5.30 on the dot leaving is not the norm. Get stuck in traffic and it is no more story-time for the kid each night

b. the london day. will you travel down the night before or at 4am in the morning ? again impact to family.

i recently changed jobs and the most important opinion for me was that of my wife. As it is she who now has to deal with the kids each morning I am on the 7.05am train to london or up at 4.15am to get to heathrow.

yes go for the new job, stretch yourself, always be moving forward..... but the gap this leaves (with the children) can only be filled by your wife.

a. I presume it would be similar to the 1-2 days in the office I do currently, I make it in time for book and bath times.

b. I'd travel on the day, meaning 30 minutes to station, and catching the 6.50 train to Euston.

I catch a flight around once a month so have a 5.00am start on that day, so know how knackering it can be. My wife is really supportive, and wouldn't want me to not take a career step if it was important to me.

oldcynic said:

Sounds like loads more time out of the house for an extra 20% or so in your pocket. Are you mortgaged up to the eyeballs or living comfortably on your current salary? Will you spend a chunk of the extra cash running a car & buying lunches etc as a result of working from the office instead of from home?

Personally if I didn't desperately need the money I'd stick with the current job and enjoy the time with my family, whereas 15 years ago I was single with no kids and would have chased the money. A job you enjoy which provides what you need is worth far more than a few extra quid at this time in your life.

Mortgage paid, but some small loans from family members that need to be paid off. None of them are in need of the money so have told me to keep it, and they'll give me a few months notice if they need it. But no individual loan more than 5k so easily repaid if given enough notice. The new job would mean having 2 cars as opposed to the one we currently have, but I wouldn't buy a second car which would bankrupt me. I don't think lunch costs would increase drastically!

Adenauer said:

The OP could always go for the middle ground and see if he can't arrange some sort of bonus scheme in his current job rather than leaving it for a new job, especially if there is already one kid to support and potentially another in a years time.

eyebeebe said:

I think it's a poor form to get a raise and then quit within a few months of doing so, but that's a personal thing.

Putting aside the family stuff and work-life balance for the moment, as you do seem to be all about the money

Whatever you do, I would advise against going back to your manager and using this as leverage to get another pay rise. By all means have a discussion on prospects, long term growth etc, but using this for a raise is going to kill your goodwill with him and if he does agree, in the back of his mind he's going to be expecting you to do the same in a year's time.

I'm certainly not going to go back for a another pay rise. I think I would cringe whilst doing so. It's just not an option. Not ALL about the money, but having never worked in bad work enviromnent maybe I am naive as to the possibility of working in a job you hate. And so the primary factor becomes upside in net salary.

desolate said:

If you have the support of your wife and you have long term aspirations I think you need to be smashing your career at your age.

Late 20s to mid 30s is prime career development time.

My wife is supportive. She doesn't have any aspiration to enter the workforce again until the little one is in nursery when he turns 3. But by then we might have another, and given how she felt after the first, she will probably want to be at home just like for the first. Then again she might become bored by this point and want to go back to the job she loved.

Greg66 said:

advicedout said:

All other things beign equal, what would you do?

- the job you'll be in in five years.

In five years your kids will be 7 and 4 maybe. You may be looking at moving to a bigger house and/or taking on (more) school fees. You'll be 34 which I would think is a time at which if you're not on an upward career trajectory, you'll be perceived to be falling back (there's not much middle ground). So which of your current job or the one on offer will provide a better stepping stone to a good career move in five years' time?

Really difficult to answer. There is a spossibility of stagnation here in my current role, with annual inflationary increases in salary, and no additional responsibility or improved prospects. But then again that could also be the case in the new job. I don't see how I could compare the two without knowing what the environment and structure is like in the new job.

[advicedout]

dtmpower said:

MikeGoodwin said:

other firms work until 5am in the morning then are back in at work for 9.

Does this happen regularly , and if so , how do you function working a 20 hour day ?

I think it's a semi regular occurrence at U.S. firms in London. Magic circle can mean 9/10pm finishes regularly but all nighters aren't regular.

[advicedout]

Neil H said:

I say go for it, that bump in salary is hard to say no to. Worst case scenario is you don’t like it and get a job somewhere else.

That's another issue. It probably wouldn't be easy to find another job within an hours commute from home at the same salary level. So if I don't like the job, i'll have to stick it out at least for a couple of years until something suitable comes up. Also, wouldn't look great on the CV if I left somewhere so soon after joining.

AyBee said:

Go for it IMO. It appears to me that you're not happy in your existing role, otherwise you wouldn't be looking. The only other point I'll add, is that you probably need to think about where you go after this - does your job become more London-centric and you need to be here the whole time, will you be able to find a job near home again easily when you decide that's what you want to do, what do you want to be doing in 5-10 years from now and can you get there from your current role?

Not actively looking, these roles have come to me. It would be difficult to find another job near home again, and I have no interest in moving to London, so that would be out of the quetsion.

Edited by advicedout on Wednesday 24th August 14:52

[advicedout]

I don't have a particular ambition for my career, I just want to maximise earnings whilst being home by 6.00pm each day. As long as I can do that, i'll probably be happy. In any case, as there is such a narrow route of progression for lawyers within the kind of company I work for, and probably in the potential new company, being in the right place in the right time is more important than a carefully thought out career plan.

[advicedout]

OpulentBob said:

Antony Moxey said:

Apologies to the OP if this causes offence but approaching 30, with a family and earning close to six figures yet on here saying 'make a life decision for me', and for the second time in a couple of months??? I am genuinely dumbfounded that you appear more than capable of earning a salary the majority of the population can only dream of yet at the same time appear unable to wipe your own arse without asking for help and advice on whether to use two sheets or three.

You're the only one who knows your job, offers, lifestyle, family, personality and level of ambition/contentment properly - discuss it with your wife and make your own decisions.

Harsh but true.

Harsh, and untrue. Lets call the title an editor's errror, but clearly i'm not actually asking you to decide for me. I know outsourcing is all the rage these days, but i'm confident i'll be doing the actual deciding for myself. The first thread gave some really useful insight into other people's experiences, and it actually changed my perspective on a couple of things. This time around, I was looking for similar, and it has been similarly useful (bar the last 3 responses) in that people have shared their experiences, what they would do under the circumstances, and what they did do having faced the same issue. It's slighly more complicated than wiping my own arse, which is why I posted about this, and why I haven't asked about the merits of using 2 or 3 sheets. Yet.

Edited by advicedout on Thursday 25th August 11:37

[advicedout]

Pulse said:

TLandCruiser said:

unless you have 0 interests or hobbies in life and just sit infront of the tv all night.

This is the important bit for me. I wouldn't want to work longer hours than I do now if I can avoid it, because I have so many other things going on in my personal life (and like I said above, I'm single with no kids, so you must be incredibly busy!).

Worth a thought, definitely.

Just worked out that i'll be travelling around 310 hours more a year. Not sure if I want to incur that much dead time. And even if I do accept it, I'll have to attribute a cost to it, probably on a £ per hour basis.