I am getting bad vibes
Discussion
I know we all suffer the 'dates not mates' syndrome when a mate finds a woman but I am getting some worrying vibes about my brother in law. I might be getting overly worried but it goes like this:
Brother in law is a single 50 year old man. Good job, own house, pension and wide circle of friends from school, work and through his interests in footy, walking, bird watching. An on-off relationship with a nice woman and her two teenage kids for whom he has pretty much been father for the past 15 years. She was never going to make it permananent, which was sad, but he got the family experience at Christmas etc. and the occasional night of passion. the kids openlyu regard him as 'Dad'.
Then...
12 months ago he met a woman 19 years his junior with two kids living in grotty rented accomodation. Three months later she is pregant, baby born a few weeks ago. She has moved in with him with the kids. Wedding planned for April. So far, cool. He has the family he has always wanted.
But some things have started to worry me. Firstly he is cut off immediately and completely from the old girlfriend (fair enough) but also her kids. They got a text messaging saying not to contact him again as he has a new family to focus on. He is a nice guy and treating them like this is out of character. His facebook account is closed and a new joint Facebook account is opened, which most of his old friends are not on. When you send him a message, most of the time she replies. His house was too small so he went to his Dad and got £80k to move to a bigger house, then to me and my wife for another £35k. Still cool, it is his inheritance, although his father is alive and well and living with me. When he asks for the money (by text message) I invite him to the house to talk through the finances, quite specifically on his own as I have to discuss my own finances to agree the £35k and he pitches up with her in tow. In fact we haven't seen him on his own since October 2015. He has put her name on the new house paperwork and pension. She tells us she is a vicar's daughter, turn out he was a lay preacher of unknown background (she couldn't even say which denomination he was) and she is very vague about her past. She has never worked but has has quite expesive tastes in food and clothes. Until the baby was born most weekends )when the kids were at their dads) were spent eating and shopping with his money. They have a big white wedding planned for which he intends to borrow the money.
But the most worrying thing is how he is treating his father and sister (my wife). Having emptied our coffers we never see him unless he is collecting parcels (he has always used our address for deliveries) when he stays for less than a minute. She sits in the car with the kids. His dad hasn't been too well of late and we called him saying he had been to the hospital for tests; he said he would pop around yesterday. Yesterday he posted on facebook that they were having lunch in a pub less than a amile away (nice picture of his pudding) ..no visit. We had a similar experience a few months ago on his mother's birthday who died 2 years ago, no visit despite me reminding him of the date and that he dad may need his support on the day.
I am in four minds;
1) he has a new, happy and busy life and can't fit it all in
2) she is cutting us off from him and others (possibly insecure?)
3) he has become a knob overnight
4) I need to take a chill pill and be more supportive
Which is it?
Brother in law is a single 50 year old man. Good job, own house, pension and wide circle of friends from school, work and through his interests in footy, walking, bird watching. An on-off relationship with a nice woman and her two teenage kids for whom he has pretty much been father for the past 15 years. She was never going to make it permananent, which was sad, but he got the family experience at Christmas etc. and the occasional night of passion. the kids openlyu regard him as 'Dad'.
Then...
12 months ago he met a woman 19 years his junior with two kids living in grotty rented accomodation. Three months later she is pregant, baby born a few weeks ago. She has moved in with him with the kids. Wedding planned for April. So far, cool. He has the family he has always wanted.
But some things have started to worry me. Firstly he is cut off immediately and completely from the old girlfriend (fair enough) but also her kids. They got a text messaging saying not to contact him again as he has a new family to focus on. He is a nice guy and treating them like this is out of character. His facebook account is closed and a new joint Facebook account is opened, which most of his old friends are not on. When you send him a message, most of the time she replies. His house was too small so he went to his Dad and got £80k to move to a bigger house, then to me and my wife for another £35k. Still cool, it is his inheritance, although his father is alive and well and living with me. When he asks for the money (by text message) I invite him to the house to talk through the finances, quite specifically on his own as I have to discuss my own finances to agree the £35k and he pitches up with her in tow. In fact we haven't seen him on his own since October 2015. He has put her name on the new house paperwork and pension. She tells us she is a vicar's daughter, turn out he was a lay preacher of unknown background (she couldn't even say which denomination he was) and she is very vague about her past. She has never worked but has has quite expesive tastes in food and clothes. Until the baby was born most weekends )when the kids were at their dads) were spent eating and shopping with his money. They have a big white wedding planned for which he intends to borrow the money.
But the most worrying thing is how he is treating his father and sister (my wife). Having emptied our coffers we never see him unless he is collecting parcels (he has always used our address for deliveries) when he stays for less than a minute. She sits in the car with the kids. His dad hasn't been too well of late and we called him saying he had been to the hospital for tests; he said he would pop around yesterday. Yesterday he posted on facebook that they were having lunch in a pub less than a amile away (nice picture of his pudding) ..no visit. We had a similar experience a few months ago on his mother's birthday who died 2 years ago, no visit despite me reminding him of the date and that he dad may need his support on the day.
I am in four minds;
1) he has a new, happy and busy life and can't fit it all in
2) she is cutting us off from him and others (possibly insecure?)
3) he has become a knob overnight
4) I need to take a chill pill and be more supportive
Which is it?
steveo3002 said:
i predict next they will be sniffing around your dad to change the will and /or advance hand outs
do well to stay away i reckon
He is entitled to half of his Dad's money when he passes, some of which is on my house so the £35k is part of that capital. He has had £115k now so there is about £60K left in his half of the estate. We have agreed that Dad in law will change his will before they marry leaving it all to my wife, and that then we have a bit of capital up our sleeve for him if it goes tits up. Brother in law doesnt know this yet as we have been cautious about suggesting this may not work. He is extra vulnerable as she has a disability so it it goes tits up with her having 3 kids, he will be living in a tent as she will get the house (no mortgage). do well to stay away i reckon
MK4 Slowride said:
So he's got £115,000 off everyone in total and put her name on the mortgage despite her not contributing. Plus I'd imagine he'll have more money than that to go into the pot. Once the kid's mobile and talking I foresee her cashing up and kicking him out. So in 3-4 years.
Very generous of you and your dad to give them the money though. It is good to help family but you'd expect them to show a bit more gratitude by staying for a bit and maybe taking you out for dinner sometimes. Did they get either of you a thank you gift?
Didn't even get a Thank You, despite knowing that the £35k had put us back with a small mortgage).Very generous of you and your dad to give them the money though. It is good to help family but you'd expect them to show a bit more gratitude by staying for a bit and maybe taking you out for dinner sometimes. Did they get either of you a thank you gift?
DonkeyApple said:
It can also be pointed out to the BiL that by doing this, if it all goes wrong and he is left without a home and no money then at least his real family will not only be there to help but also have the money he will need to get back on his feet. If in the event the relationship doesn't work out then he will have not just financially crippled himself but also his real family simultaneously. He should legally protect the OP and his father if only for his own selfish protection.
We had a discussion amongst ourselves but concluded that as he was making the decision to put her on the house deeds without any prompting, was marrying her and seemed madly in love, he may not take kindly to us paintinhg her as a potential gold digger. We did no and see a solicitor and finnacial adviser who suggested transferring assets into trust Father in law ignored it and transfered the money. Blood is thicker than financial sense.berlintaxi said:
No idea where it says the OP mortgaged to raise the £35K, also he states his BIL intends to borrow to pay for the wedding, doesn't read to me like he is rolling in cash.
We have an offset mortgage, we had been in the black with it has with the FiL's cash we were completely offset, without it and the £35k we are back in the red and paying interest.mjb1 said:
That suggests FiL owns a 50% stake in your (£600k) house, and that BiL will inherit his %age share of that in addition to the £125k he's already been advanced. You need to be very careful here, what does the title deed for the property say the share is - is it as simple as a fixed 50%, or is there a deed of trust that covers FiL's share reducing if he withdraws equity (e.g. from your offset mortgage) and advances it to BiL?
If the property title deed says fixed 50%, then maybe it's covered in FiL's will instead? Or is the will a simple, fixed split between siblings (e.g. 50/50)?
If nether document covers the cash advances then BiL legally could be having his cake and eating it - he takes as much money now from FiL (technically a gift), then when FiL passes, he's still entitled to 50% of FiL's estate, which includes half of the 50% share of your house, so BiL gets 1/4 of your house as well.
Make sure FiL's will is done properly and is absolutely water tight. So often you hear stories of contested and invalid wills.
The plan is the FiL will change his will to leave it all to my wife. We will then give BiL the remainsder of his cash if and when we think he needs it (post any divorce) or when we can see the relationship has . FiL is quite well at 82 but we are conscious that if he needed residential care the money he has given away may be re-examined by the council, but our plan would be to have him with us unless massive nursing care was required.If the property title deed says fixed 50%, then maybe it's covered in FiL's will instead? Or is the will a simple, fixed split between siblings (e.g. 50/50)?
If nether document covers the cash advances then BiL legally could be having his cake and eating it - he takes as much money now from FiL (technically a gift), then when FiL passes, he's still entitled to 50% of FiL's estate, which includes half of the 50% share of your house, so BiL gets 1/4 of your house as well.
Make sure FiL's will is done properly and is absolutely water tight. So often you hear stories of contested and invalid wills.
yellowtang said:
Changing his will in order to prevent your BIL having the remaining inheritance unless your wife decides he is worthy of it sounds like an absolute recipe for disaster!
In respect of your father inlaw's potential future care needs - you sound a bit naive to be honest. The chances of him needing home or residential nursing care at some point are very high. If it does come to that - will be bonkers expensive, eat through his money in no time, leave you potentially having to buy your FIL out of your house and leave you having to answer some difficult questions about the money gifted to your BIL. I've been through this with my father, we looked after him for 10 years in our home, the last 2 of which were absolute hell, damaged my health, nearly cost me my marriage and lost me some good friends.
I suggest you get some professional advice.
We tried getting professional advice and FiL ignored it.In respect of your father inlaw's potential future care needs - you sound a bit naive to be honest. The chances of him needing home or residential nursing care at some point are very high. If it does come to that - will be bonkers expensive, eat through his money in no time, leave you potentially having to buy your FIL out of your house and leave you having to answer some difficult questions about the money gifted to your BIL. I've been through this with my father, we looked after him for 10 years in our home, the last 2 of which were absolute hell, damaged my health, nearly cost me my marriage and lost me some good friends.
I suggest you get some professional advice.
simoid said:
Careful, you're maybe moving into territory where she can reasonably say "look at this, BiL is trying to turn you against me..."
Joint facebook, joint hotmail, joint hen and stag night. Not seen him alone in 14 months except for 1 hour out on the bikes when he wanted to go hope 30 mins in to a 3 hour ride. I think he deserves all he gets!AVV EM said:
I think that you should seriously consider reporting her for domestic abuse and get some sort of therapy for your brother as he's obviously not doing so well up there in the head, either that or she's blackmailing him.
They move into the new house next week. I am hoping it settles her nerves. Can't say too much now but there have been several other, apparently unrelated, 'incidents' which have compounded things.Looking like an interesting Christmas and new year.
UPDATE:
He has now had to change his mobile number and email address for her fear of him contacting an ex. Zero, and I mean zero time when she isn't with him 24/7.
2 weeks after they bought the new house he called us asking for a bed for the night (twice) with her sceaming and swearing in the background.
If she was the man I am sure this would be emotional abuse and seen as domestic violence.
He says he is happy.
Father in laws will has been changed.
He has now had to change his mobile number and email address for her fear of him contacting an ex. Zero, and I mean zero time when she isn't with him 24/7.
2 weeks after they bought the new house he called us asking for a bed for the night (twice) with her sceaming and swearing in the background.
If she was the man I am sure this would be emotional abuse and seen as domestic violence.
He says he is happy.
Father in laws will has been changed.
bloomen said:
If he himself isn't recording calls and taking notes of incidents, then you can do it for him. At some point it's going to come to a head and he'll be in a much safer position if there's evidence to back up his position.
No doubt she'll be rolling out the domestic violence trope.
Never thought of that, thanksNo doubt she'll be rolling out the domestic violence trope.
t, like him. Paternity test not required!joshcowin said:
OP hope this all works out, seems like your BIL (a nice guy) has got caught up in something that is genuinely unpleasant!
To early to suggest some form of pre-nuptial agreement?
Too late. He put her name on the house when they bought it despite the fact she had only £600 to her name on a £200k house.To early to suggest some form of pre-nuptial agreement?
6 weeks to the wedding.
Looks like he has permission for a few hours out with me ( we used to ride our bikes twice a week in the good old day pre-relationship).
I am tempted to ask him WTF he is doing marrying her but I think that is a done deal.
But I feel obliged to say something, anything. I think he will acccept that she is controlling so that may be my best tack; advice on weaning her off the psycho 24/7 thing?
I am tempted to ask him WTF he is doing marrying her but I think that is a done deal.
But I feel obliged to say something, anything. I think he will acccept that she is controlling so that may be my best tack; advice on weaning her off the psycho 24/7 thing?
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