Getting my daughter into school mid year.

[King Herald]

As some will recollect, 7 years ago we moved to the Philippines. Daughter was 8, seemed keen to go. When I was 7 my family was posted to Singapore with the RAF, and those three years in a tropical paradise were the best days of my life, and I assumed ehe'd revel in it too.

However, my daughter did not take to the Philippines, never settled in, never really found any friends, and for that reason, and a couple of others, we decided to move back to England last December.

In October I popped over here on my own to see about a school for her, as she is in 5th form, GCE exams looming. Our nearest local school seemed interested, very positive they could sort something out for her, told us to bring her in, so we rushed over as soon as we could get a place to stay.

We arrived here to live late December, and went in to see the school second day of term.....excited to get her back into it..... and they have basically shot us down, told us she might not do too well because of the differences from her school curriculum overseas. Headteacher finally came out with the gem "if she fails it will reflect on me".

My daughter is pretty smart, and did really well in the private international schhol we had her in before, so this is a bt of a shock.

Anyway, we went to the education department of the county council, who told us we have to apply to the school officially, with an application form. They then have to officially reject her, by letter, before the education department can move on.

Been to the school 3 times in the last week and they just fob us off, no reply has been forthcoming. So we are trapped in limbo.

I'd realy like to get her into school, somewhere, anywhere, as I am pretty sure it is illegal for her NOT to go to school?

Anybody have any suggestions, or know anything about the procedure?

Yes,I know it is pretty much mine and her mums fault for dragging her away from England, so no need for the usual suspects to climb on their high horses and start telling us so.

Edited by King Herald on Monday 16th January 06:44

[King Herald]

Wobbegong said:

Are online courses a possibility if the schools are being awkward?

Not too sure how we would stand legally not having her in a school at all. She's only 15.

The school suggested we send her to college, said they could 'tailor a suitable course for her'...

The main reason I want her in school is to get her with kids her own age, ger her some possible gce's and get back into the system, possibly go on to A levels etc.

Vaud said:

Escalate to the governors, at least for the reply so that you know where you stand. The chair will be contactable via their web site or the school office.

That could be the next step. I'm not worried about offending the school Headteacher any more as I doubt my daughter would fit in very well there once I had gone over her head, so to speak.

I shall see how today pans out when I go down there yet again.

[King Herald]

The school did point out the difference in curriculum, compared to the subjects my daughter studied in her American system school overseas.

I suggested she be allowed tojust join and do her best, just to havevher in school, but the response was pretty negative.

I asked if she could drop down a year, as she has always been the youngest in her year, even when she was in school here before, born mid July, but I was told 'the maturity levels would be a problem'...

Joining college I would assume she would be a 15 year old in a class of adults of various ages, 16 to 66. Not ideal.


Anyway, I just got back from the school, they have promised the letter will be ready tomorrow for me to collect.

I shall look into the LEA department and they may get a call in the very near future.

[King Herald]

I shall see exactly what their letter of refusal states, when we get it..

I have thought either trying another school, or, home schooling her until college opens, in September.

Or, trying to her into college now just to fill her days, then start again in September.

Or, try the private grammar school nearby for the rest of this year. It is pricey, but an option.

I do have my doubts she could be greatly succesful taking exams so unprepared, but it would get her back into school and give her some social life and interaction, something she was missing overseas.

[King Herald]

Yes, school leaving age is basically 18, so she is in a totally alien environment here, with the UK system.

I'll see what tomorrow brings and maybe have to the LEA involved. I'd rather not force her into a school that doesn't want her, but we'll have to see how it plays out.

I have suggested we do a road trip to Spain to pass the time, but probably not the best idea...

[King Herald]

turbobloke said:

That warrants formal escalation. The headteacher knows that what she said does not represent an acceptable admissions criterion under the national Schools Admissions Code and she is very wrong with her open but culpable statement. But she said it anyway.

If your daughter had special educational needs, rather than simply having been taught under a different curriculum, that too would be no basis for pre-empting an admissions decision simply because she might take the school's average down. Tough titty, headteacher.

You don't have to accept this and should start a formal complaint if you still want your daughter to attend that school. The head's attitude to your daughter will change after his or her backside has been booted. If there's another school with a better headteacher who understands admissions regulations, you could try again of course.

We had something similar - in terms of a megalomaniac headteacher, not admissions related though - who over-reacted to a minor disciplinary matter with one of mine, and we would have supported the school to the hilt but for the headteacher's arrogance in imposing an indefinite exclusion when such a move was unavailable to him. Initially the governors supported the headteacher but we sent the Chair a copy of the government's policy for state schools and they back-tracked at speed. Get a copy of the Admissions Code online and if you want to take it further, you can do so.

This definitly sounds interesting. I'm pretty sure the reason they haven't given us the rejection letter is for just the above reasons: they can't just decide not to let her in, but they don't want to put that sentence, or the equivalent, on paper!

If, for instance, there was some bone idle dimbo in the class who was obviously not going to pass anything, the school has no right to refuse him entry, or kick him out. And that is pretty much what they have done to my daughter. They don't think she'll pass, so keep her out.

[King Herald]

I don't know of any American schools anyehere near here.

I have suggested she drop back a year, but the school just seem adamant they don't want her in.

Today should see some progress as the promised yesterday that we would have our official response from the school.

I'm guessing they made their original decision because we didn"t appear to know the procedures, so they thought they could pull a fast one on us.

[King Herald]

turbobloke said:

At the next meeting, why not take a print-out of the national Schools Admissions Code and make sure the front cover is visible you may well not need to quote from it at all and can explain it as bedtime reading for later if asked (so that you won't be expected to recite it from memory!).

I had just that same thought earlier, maybe drop a few names or brief regulations into conversation.

Unfortunatly we don't have a printer yet, we're still setting a bare house up after moving.

[King Herald]

TooLateForAName said:

The school my daughters go to (and I assume that the same applies elsewhere) is suffering from a massive change in the curriculum and exam system which hits the school imminently (my eldest is 15 in a couple of months and will be in the first year to have the new system).

They may feel that having another pupil into the class who hasn't been on the UK system, let alone the new system could have a big impact on the rest of the class.

That said, I still think that they have an obligation to take and educate.

I just got the rejection letter from the school, 1 1/2 pages of waffle, stating pretty much what you have pointed out above, that she will upset the class, and she would be 'diasadvantaged'.

I have been to the county council education department, they gave me a number to ring, and I was basically told we can either appeal, or apply at another school. They are our only options.

The college also had a visit, and they to state there is no logical way she can join in the middle of the year.

[King Herald]

That would be the subject of the appeal, and that can take up to nine weeks. I fear the school are just playing for tiime now.

We may appeal, just to piss them off, and also apply at another school as well.

[King Herald]

WestyCarl said:

Be careful, if you do appeal (and follow it through) the outcome is legally binding so you will have to send you daughter there, even if she's started somewhere else.

I was vaguely thinking the education department might do more than they have, but they offer nothing more than 'appeal the decision, or try another school'.

Would she be happy in a school that didn't want her, and maybe a vindictive staff? Not saying they would be, but it is a possibility.

Or should we just apply to another school and then wait around for a week or two again?

All the time the clock is ticking towards these gce exams.

[King Herald]

How coincidental, I too came back from Singapore in 1970, had to take the 11 plus pretty soon after, but I did manage to pass it and go on to grammar school.

We're in the Midlands, no American schools anywhere near us. Even so, they would be private, and expensive, for a guess.

You are correct, it is definitely the head teacher who is interested only in the overall image of her school. However, that specific sentence she gave us at the end of our meeting: "if she fails it will reflect on me" does not appear in the rejection letter.

[King Herald]

FlyingMeeces said:

Many/most sixth forms use GCSEs as an entry requirement to be allowed to do A levels: as such, trying to sit GCSEs on 5 months learning time rather than the usual 21-ish months really isn't a good idea for someone who, with sufficient time and teaching, will easily be able to get good grades. So probably worth refocusing totally on finding her a Year 10 place somewhere, being just one year older than her classmates won't be a big deal unless someone makes it a big deal (odds are in a big secondary school she won't be the only one, there are a lot of reasons why a kid might end up a year 'behind') and kids mature at very different rates anyway.

She doesn't need to know that the school didn't want her and the individual teachers won't know either, admissions doesn't go anywhere near your standard frontline classroom teacher.

My local authority has an admissions form for all school age children that you fill in with three choices of school for your kid, they do the rest - your LEA probably has something very similar. http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/500322/secondary...

The schools in our town aren't really that big, and my daughter is already well aware of everything thy is going on, she comes with me to the school each time.

As mentioned earlier, I already suggested to the school she be allowed to enter a year lower that she would normally be in, but the guy who appears to make the official statements says she is basically too mature to put in that year. Her birthday is July 13' so she would effectively be the oldest in that year, instead of the youngest in her current year.

They basically told us she would be better starting afresh in college, to take GCE's, but that means waiting until September.

We will go to another school today, the one my wife originally wanted, and apply for her to join one year lower. Then we can see what happens.

[King Herald]

Fozziebear said:

^ This. My ex took my daughter out of school at 15, apparently the other kids were saying nasty things to her, home educated her with zero push back from authorities and education bods. She's now 17, 18 next month and at college sitting her gcse, so a bit of a cock up on mums side. If your daughter is smart, I have no doubt she isn't, she will be fine.

How and where would we find the necessary paraphernalia to home school? I assume there would be no GCE exams involved, and to get them she would need to go to college.

Strangely enough, I think I have been reasonably succesful in life, as a mere grease monkey, and have retired early at 55, but nobody has ever asked to see any qualifications from school days. Luckily...

[King Herald]

oldbanger said:

I am doing a distance learning course through the National Extension College. I've found them OK, and they cover GCSE courses/exams
https://www.nec.ac.uk/course-categories/gcses-igcs...

Once again, the problem of being halfway through the year looms its head. Will they let her start studying for gce's now, so close to exam time?

We are applying at another local school tomorrow and if she is rejected will appeal to that first schools decision, as it is closer to home, but if it all falls apart then home learning it will be. I'm sure she already knows a whole bunch of useful stuff that is standard across the world, but she needs to choose which gce is worth pursuing.

But ideally she needs something to fill her teenage days with other kids her own age, preferably in a school environment.

[King Herald]

ColinM50 said:

I bet the local papers and even the Mail would be interested in this discrimination on the part of the school. Certainly worth a call to your local rag and a chat with one of their reporters. Any conversation should be liberally sprinkled with the GHead's comments that they're only interested in their results, add in questions, "what would you do if it were your child?" and such inflammatory comments as the school aren't interested in children, only their own careers etc

I will go down that route if it all falls apart, but I can't really do it until we have applied for this other school, and if rejected, lodged an appeal against the first one. The appeal can take up to nine weeks, so if the school drag their feet about it all then most of the school year will be done by the time everything is settled. That would be the time to throw it to the gutter press.

"School head refused to let my daughter in, because she was more worried about her own reputation than her pupils" sort of thing.

[King Herald]

grumpy52 said:

Are you by any chance from an RAF Music service family . Dad was at Changi and I went to Seletar Sec .

RAF, but not music. My dad was at Changi as a technician servicing Shackletons and some sort of sonar system. We went to Changi schools, 67-70.

[King Herald]

I have asked several times in the local council offices, and checked on line, and the application process for mid year entry involved us giving an application form directly to the school ourselves.

It doesn't appear the local authorities have much at all to do with the process. When I initially told them the school had verbally rejected our application they told me we had to do it on a proper form, and then get an official written refusal, and only then could they do anything. It turns out that 'do anything' was simply to tell us to either appeal, or apply to another school! They never asked to see the written refusal either, I could have made it up.

I'm not sure how I even escalate this, as it appears the above IS the correct process.

When I asked to specifically speak to someone I was given a phone number. They also repeated the above: appeal, or try another school.

I also pointed out to the school that she would,simply be the oldest kid in the class, instead of the youngest, if she stepped back a year, but they were not to be persuaded.

[King Herald]

ColinM50 said:

Checked with SWMBO and she says here in Cambridgeshire the Admissions Dept at Cambs County Council are the ONLY people who decide which school a child goes to. I think you said you're in Leicestershire (?) and SWMBO says she can't believe Leicestershire are any different, it's a pretty standard process throughout the UK.

Process here is if someone calls her school they're put straight onto the LEA in Cambridge, the school aren't really involved in the selection process. Contact your LEA and Admissions will send you a form, you put down your three preferences and IF there's space at any of those schools, Admissions will choose which school she goes to, nothing to do with the school itself. Looking at the Leicester website it seems very well set out and helpful. I'm sure you've already been on there. Email for Admissions is [e-mail] and phone is 0116 454 1009 (option 1.

She had one on Friday, a Romanian woman came in asking how to register her daughter for year 6. She was put on to Admissions and the girl will be starting at the school on Monday. The child doesn't speak a word of English. Mum and Dad have been here since October, speak a bit of English and go to classes to learn and are now settled in work and a rented home and daughter's just come over from Romania, grandparents have been looking after her since Oct.

That is the normal procedure here in staffordshire if you are merely joining as normal, start of term, give three choices, hand the form in, but joining 'in year' as they call it, it specifies you have to take the form directly to the school of your choice.

Iv'e googled LEA with regards to school admissions and nothing comes up under that acronym, it simply leads to gov.com type web sites.,

[King Herald]

Jasandjules said:

Contact the board of Governors?

The official procedure is to appeal, so contacting them will probably result in them giving the same answer.