Minimalist running.

[anonymous-user]

Are any of you running with zero or virtually zero drop shoes or even bare foot?

I really like running on the beach when abroad but don't do it enough and usually end up with sore calves each time.

I keep reading about how normal drop trainers could cause running injuries by forcing heel striking which isn't a natural way to run. Most manufacturers are rolling out zero drop shoes this year. Is minimalist running really injury free nirvana, running the way we were made to or just a fad that might leave me with knackered legs?

I might try incorporating a little bit of it into my plan for some speed work and see how it goes but I won't be running in anything that looks like monkey feet.

[anonymous-user]

Hoofy said:

No idea/experience but walking on laminate flooring, heels first, really hurts my heels so I can't imagine going for a run on concrete. On sand must be nice, however.

I think that's the point of minimalist shoes, they force you to run the way we run naturally which is on the front of our feet and not heel strike.

[anonymous-user]

Anyone else?

[anonymous-user]

Tiggsy said:

The concept barefoot is a fad is nuts. Whats nuts is thinking you can put a little bit of air under your heel then drop 17 stone on it, at speed, hundreds of times....and all will be well! There is no other running animal that lands on its heel! Look at a dogs heel, its half way up its leg!

Quite right. We're made to run in bare feet and on the front of our feet. Our legs feet and associated muscles are designed to run without artificial cushioning. It can't be a fad to run the way our bodies were designed and have evolved.

[anonymous-user]

Frankeh said:

Parsnip said:

5 fingers make you look like a complete cock-tip and also come equipped with a special function that requires you to tell anyone around you about how good they are at every possible opportunity

I've never met anyone with a pair of 5 fingers. How do I know this? Because if I had, they'd have told me about them.

So the bad thing about 5 fingers is that everyone that uses them thinks they are great.

As for your concern about looking like "a complete cock-tip" there's plenty of other zero drop shoes around, minimalist runners don't have to wear five finger shoes. Nike, Saucony, New Balance and INOV-8 are all making great looking zero drop shoes.

[anonymous-user]

Parsnip said:

The idea that forefoot striking = good and heelstriking = bad is, without to put too fine a point on it, completely wrong - listen to any good coach (like Brett Sutton), hell, listen to Geb and they will tell you that forcing a footstrike is the wrong thing to do.

So why then is forcing a heel strike the right thing to do? Most people wouldn't heel strike naturally, nobody can run around barefoot heel striking, you'd be in a lot of pain. Look at your feet and legs they're not made for heel striking. Why deviate from the natural in the first place? I understand we need something to stop getting cut feet but why actually force a heel strike? Why are shoes that force a heal strike and deviate from the natural better?

[anonymous-user]

I wonder why we came to this point where people felt they needed so much support on their heel? Our legs and feet are obviously made to run with and we have big muscles and tendons to reduce shock. Why was it ever considered that this wasn't adequate?

Presumably it's a way of selling new products?

[anonymous-user]

Got a pair of new balance minimus zero roads and have been making a slow transition onto a minimalist style running. It's going well and i'm really enjoying running in them.

http://www.irunfar.com/2011/12/new-balance-minimus...

[anonymous-user]

ATM, those are possibly the oddest looking running shoes I've ever seen.

[anonymous-user]

So the issue you have is that your middle three toes are longer that the big toe? Your VFFs look like that anyway or are your three middle toes stretching them?

[anonymous-user]

nick s said:

I've converted to running on the front of my feet and feel much better and get injured less because of it.

I do have a pair of Newtons with a zero drop, and i can only wear them on the track as they give me bad shin splints! Another mate started using the 5 finger shoes that have no cushioning at all. He had a stress fracture within a month!!! So i'm not a fan personally.

I much prefer my cushioned Mizuno Wave Riders!

I think the problem is people get minimalist shoes or run barefoot and then do too much too soon. You really need a slow transition to them as you're running using muscles tendon ligaments in your feet and legs that you don't use when wearing cushy heel shoes.

We were made without shoes, presumably we are able to run barefoot without injuring ourselves once we get used to it.

[anonymous-user]

Iceman82 said:

That's brilliant, thanks Tiggsy. Just the type of info I needed.

The new balance minimus zero roads I have also have a vibram sole and are great for road and light trail work. There's a review of them and the trail version in the link in my post at the top of the page.

[anonymous-user]

ATM said:

Just bought some of these

I had a red pair of NB minimus zero roads when they first came out and found them excellent shoes. The only drawback for me is that for longer distances I find my feet start to get sore around 20KM, I'm not sure if I can increase the distance in them or are minimalist shoes simply not for everyone for longer distances. I managed to wear the sole out dramatically by doing intervals on a treadmill but didn't notice the heel was rubbing against the moving part whilst I was standing on the side. I'm now on my second pair and got a blue pair one size bigger as my previous ones gave me black toenails even wearing socks. I've noticed that often with these minimalist shoes, sizing is often very different to normal. In NM minimus shoes i'm UK 11 while normally a 10 in Nike i'm 10.5.

I still have half a mind to try increasing distance in them over the winter to run a marathon in them next year. I see saucony are releasing a zero drop kinvara soon, so a flat shoe with a little bit more cushioning might be the ideal longer distance shoe.

I also got a pair of the minimus zero trails, which although excellent off road are for me not suited to on road running and again I get sore feet with them if doing more than a couple of KM between trail sections.

I used to get sore knees running and cycling but found with both increasing the cadence and running fore/mid foot has stopped this completely. I think also it's very important to take a complete look at your body and see a physio if you have pains/problems as often they might be a reaction to problems elsewhere. Your knee problem might be to do with nerves in your spine, or your pelvis. You might have one leg longer than another or some other issue.

Some physio and running efficiently at high cadence with minimal time on the ground was the answer for my running problems. Minimalist shoes helped me achieve this.

Edited by el stovey on Monday 20th August 09:10

[anonymous-user]

ewenm said:

I've found good results by varying the shoes I run in dependent on the purpose and type of run I'm doing.

I do this for trail and non trail but do all speedy interval, tempo & long runs in the same shoes. I think using something with a bit more padding for longer runs is the way to go. The trouble is, there isn't much in the way of zero drop shoes with more cushioning. Zero drop and wafer thin soles seem to go hand in hand. I think Newton are the only people making zero drop shoes (for only £140 thank you) with thicker soles.

After running in zero drop shoes I've found going back to my old shoes with a drop again a bit uncomfortable. Unfortunately you never really know how a shoes going to be on a long run till you buy it!

Edited by el stovey on Monday 20th August 09:18

[anonymous-user]

ewenm said:

el stovey said:

I do this for trail and non trail but do all the road speedy interval, tempo & long runs.work in the same shoes. I think using something with a bit more padding for longer runs is the way to go. The trouble is, there isn't much in the way of zero drop shoes with more cushioning. Zero drop and wafer thin soles seem to go hand in hand. I think Newton are the only people making zero drop shoes (for only £140 thank you) with thicker soles.

If you managed to change your running style a bit (faster cadence, better strike point) through using the zero-drop shoes, you might find you're OK with a pair of normal shoes for your longer runs (you should still be able to mid-foot strike). Edit: just seen your edit, guess not then

Another alternative is an insole (sorbothane for example) in a pair of flats.

Great advice as usual from you ewen, I think I'll try small drop shoes with a bit more cushioning whilst also building up the distance in minimalist shoes and see what works best, if neither work I'll also look at your suggestion of sorbothane? (never heard of it) .

[anonymous-user]

Since I started this thread, I think i'll give a quick update.

I started 'minimalist' running in NB minimus zero road shoes and found them great. Unfortunately I managed to wear away much of the sole standing on the side of a treadmill whilst the band was still rotating and rubbing against the shoe. The sole is basically like a flipflop with some grip circles. These shoes are fantastic minimalist shoes but obviously have a very thin sole, for me they were good for up to about 20km road runs and then my feet started hurting a bit. I also got NB zero minimus trail shoes which I also love but these (for me) are more summer shoes as water gets in through the holes in the sole structure. I also found them a bit thin for long road runs. They are great off road but you will feel any stones, possibly best for bridle/foot paths than rocky descents.

I also have some Saucony Virratas now which are fantastic. They are also zero drop but just have a slightly thicker sole. They still give that free running experience I enjoyed with the NB minimus shoes but I'm able to do longer road runs with them. Anyone that has saucony kinvaras will like these instantly.

I've been completely injury free since I started running with zero drop shoes. Running with a more mid/for foot strike and building up the supporting muscles in my legs and feet have been they key. My running has improved hugely and i'm really enjoying it.

[anonymous-user]

Treadmill is great for couch to 5k just switching it from walk to run according to the plan. Some people starting off running (again) feel a bit funny about walking and jogging outside at first.

[anonymous-user]

You can download "born to run" as an audiobook and listen to it during your long runs.

[anonymous-user]

ewenm said:

Warming up and down properly is a good way to reduce/prevent soreness. In the past I've found that my performances hit a plateau if I try to run every run hard (or even have fast pace in every run). I race and do the hard sessions better if my easy/steady runs are kept easy/steady.

I found the same, I think most people need to make their long runs slower and their fast runs faster. Variety also makes training more enjoyable, instead of just banging out the same distances and paces all the time and not really improving, I found doing long slow runs and on other days shorter interval sessions or something like hill sprints made me improve and also avoid injury. If people suffer from injuries doing stuff like squats and hill sprints will strengthen legs and their associated supporting structures.

[anonymous-user]

InertialTooth45 said:

I was struggling with impact with the higher mileage I was doing. I found the key was like Ewen to use a trainer that isn't minimalist as such but has a zero drop heel so makes forefoot striking nice and natural but still has a decent amount of cushioning.

I went for the Saucony virratas but I remember the brooks pure range looking similar.

I've got some virratas too. Fantastic shoe, feels slightly narrow at the front though (seems an odd decision to make a zero drop shoe that is narrower in the toe box) and the lovely soft EVA sole appears to be wearing quicker than i've seen before.

As above, I got them for longer runs and they work fantastically.