Hitting brick wall with running

[B19GRR]

Right, I'm pretty sure I know what the problem is, VO2 max or rather a lacking in that department. Basically since January I've got myself vaguely fit again, dropped from 14st 2lb to 11st 9lb (6' 1/2"(!) tall) so I'm in a happy place if crappy BMI is to believed and I've got multiple bumps in the gut region now rather than a single one which suggests BF% is pretty good too. I followed the C25K and got to the point where I was running 5k in about 27 minutes. Not going to set the world alight but impressive from someone who's always hated running.

In May I started upping the distance with C10K and had got to not far of 5 miles. Around that time I also started playing with my weights (not much as I've only got 30 odd kg of them knocking around) following the Stronglifts 5x5 programme. I don't have any intention of becoming Mr Universe so I'm happy enough really with the weights I've got, it's better than nothing is my thinking.

In June I had some forced downtime (about 3 weeks) from running as my trainers were causing me some real problems. Once I'd got over that and got some new shoes I started up running again and built back up to 5k but I'm really struggling at anything over 2 miles. Friday night I ran 3.29 miles in 29:29, felt OK for most of it but knew I had to stop at that point. Today I covered 2.97 miles in 26:40 but had to stop running 4 or 5 times in the second half and walk a bit.

Health is pretty good, not got a cold or anything, eating well (2000Cals a day as a base plus eating back extra to cover exercise), so I'm a bit confused why less than two months after being able to cover 4.5-5 miles I'm now being blown away by less than 3. My target is to be able to run 3 times a week, 2x10k and 1x5k, not asking much.

<tl-dr/>

Summing up, after a bit of reading up on VO2max the general recommendation is intervals, is it that simple? Should I just dedicate one of my weekly runs to intervals (thinking 30s run, 60s recovery to start for maybe 10 reps or until I puke) or is there some better programme to follow, maybe with a helpful free app!

Thanks for any thoughts.

Cheers,
Rob

Edited by B19GRR on Sunday 13th July 20:23

[B19GRR]

Thanks for the thoughts gents. I think mixing it up a bit will be of benefit, I might just be a bit target fixated on getting to the 2x10, 1x5 state.

One problem I seem to have is pace control though, I seem to be averaging 8:30 mins/mile, only got below 8 min/mile once and paid for that on the next 2 miles. I find it really hard to run slower and keep any sense of form. I'm attempting my best for a midfoot strike and think I'm getting there, calves are achy but recover in a day. My route is also quite rolling, I live on top of a hill in the Yorkshire Wolds so I run the road along the ridge, it's not massively up and down but there's definite changes in gradient that gets the heart and lungs working overtime!

Cheers,
Rob

[B19GRR]

goldblum said:

fandango_c said:

Your pace seems too fast to me.

It seems faster than his suggested 8.30 m/miles!

fandango_c said:

I find slow runs to be quite difficult to maintain what seems a very slow pace, but I think they have done by far the most to improve my running speed.

Quite likely: You need long slow (highly aerobic)runs to help anaerobic recovery... . So without LSD runs intervals will suffer and you'll struggle getting faster.

Just double checked my pace on the last two runs, 3.29 miles @ 29:29 = 8:58 average, actual splits were 8:20, 8:52 and 9:19. 2.97 miles @ 26:40, average was 8:59, splits 8:08, 8:27 which means the last 0.97 took over 10 minutes, which makes sense as I walked a chunk of it. I had deliberately set out to run the 3.29 at a slower pace, sounds like I need to be even slower, and the 2.97 at a higher pace (had wanted to run 3.5 miles that time). Interesting that the average pace of the two runs was practically identical.

So what pace should I aim at for a slow run, 10mins/mile or even slower?

And tell me more about this LSD stuff?

Cheers,
Rob

[B19GRR]

goldblum said:

B19GRR said:

So what pace should I aim at for a slow run, 10mins/mile or even slower?

Can someone run that slow?

Well that's the question really! Just what is a slow pace for me, if it's 10mins/mile on the terrain I cover then that's fine as long as my form doesn't go wonky and I start hurting myself, I just need to figure out how to pace myself better. Could do with an app that gives frequent updates on pace, I'm using endomondo (free) which only tells me my pace at the end of each completed mile, an update every 30s would be handier, anyone got any suggestions?

Cheers,
Rob

[B19GRR]

OK, I went for a LSR (check me and my jargon!) tonight having invested in Runtastic Pro which has a pace monitoring feature (nice lady telling you to speed up or slow down, say no more). I set my target pace to a 10mins/mile just to see what it was like. Slightly unexpected result was that I ran 6.04 miles in 57:52 giving me an average of 9:34min/mile. So that's practically scientific proof that going slow is a good thing! I found that pace pretty comfortable and it even got my over the hill at the 3 mile mark (and again at 5 miles) that I've always struggled with.

Next run should be on Friday, I've set up an interval session, basically 10mins run then 10x 10s run/1min recovery then a 5 min cool down run, should see me coughing up a lung or two. Sunday should be a 5k-ish run at a faster pace TBD.

So cracking stuff, I'm feeling pretty chuffed at getting to 6 miles and kicking myself for not asking sooner and getting myself on a better track. Thanks all!

Cheers,
Rob

[B19GRR]

To keep this updated, I did my interval run on Saturday, went OK and I managed all 10 "sprints" (HA!). I then slightly foolishly went for another LSR on Sunday as I wanted to get my pattern set so I'm doing that at the weekends. Managed 5.5miles at 9:50ish but suffered a bit in parts probably due to running the day before, so lesson learnt there, keep that rest day in place.

Should be out this evening for a 5k thinking of targeting an 8:45 pace but we'll see how I feel when I get out on the road!

Cheers,
Rob

[B19GRR]

Slow and steady definitely! 2014 has been my getting back in shape year big time. I'm 42, 5 years ago was over 17st, managed to drop to around 14st but plateaued there for a couple of years because I wasn't doing any serious dieting/exercising. I my 20s I was mid-12st and pretty fit, life then got in the way.

Jan 2014 I joined MyFitnessPal and rather ruthlessly dieted as well as started up C25K. I wasn't expecting to like running as it's not something I've ever done, cycling was my big thing back in my 20s but I've not been motivated to get back on my bike at all. So starting at 14st2lb in Jan I've dropped to 11st9lb, maintaining that weight for a couple of months, and if various tape measurements and websites are to be believed around 13% BF.

As I've got in to my running I originally thought doing two 10ks and one 5k a week would be good, luckily this thread has pointed out the error in that so now I'm working up to doing an 8 mile LSR, 1 10k and 1 interval (up to 5k) run to mix things up. Long term I'd like to say I can do a 10k in 45 minutes, it may never happen but it's a goal and that's motivating for me. I could do with completing a 10k in the first place though, nearest I've got is the recent 6.04miles and at nearly 3mins/mile slower than I'd need to be running it in 45mins, but hey ho

Cheers,
Rob

[B19GRR]

Definitely agree on the slow and steady approach. I'm not expecting that 45min 10k to happen this year, maybe not even next year, it's just a goal. I'm also getting much better at listening to my body, happily it seems to be in less pain at the mo' than it has been in though, that's one major benefit in having shed the pounds, even though running is heavy on the joints it's still better than an extra 6st 24/7.

Cheers,
Rob

[B19GRR]

Just thought I'd update this topic. A few weeks back I managed a 7.75 mile run, had wanted to do 8 but turned the last corner in to a strong headwind and my body had other ideas at that point. Since then I've had a couple of weeks off while I let a nasty callous/blister on the ball of my right foot to heal up as it had got in to a proper nasty state.

Also bought another pair of Mizuno Cursoris as they were in a sale for £45, really liking these and I feel my midfoot strike form is coming on well. Since starting up again the longest I've done is 5 miles. I did my interval run last night covering 3.2miles in 30 minutes, managed all 10 10s sprints apparently hitting a top speed of 11.6mph for at least a couple of metres, wayhay Annoyingly I got another smaller blister closer to my toes so will deal with that. Been trying Engo blister patches which are very low friction things you stick on to the insole, they seem to help, guess I'll stick some more on.

Hoping the weather holds for tomorrow for my planned lsr, got it in my head to do 10 miles on a cunning route where the second half is pretty much a long slow downhill, cheating I know but if it lets me stay out running longer then I figure that's good. Just need to convince MsGrr to pick me up at the end otherwise it's a 10 mile uphill walk home too on legs that might not appreciate that so much!

Cheers,
Rob

[B19GRR]

Well I managed 10 miles, average pace of 9:47min/mile so pretty chuffed. Found I didn't actually enjoy running downhill which was a shame as it was cunningly routed to be mainly downhill! Got some more blisters annoyingly, don't seem to be having much luck on that front.

Cheers,
Rob