Discussion
We have topics for SL 5x5 and Starting Strength, so thought it may be interesting to find out what people have moved onto next.
I may well be wrong, but my understanding is Jim Wendler's original programme was quite popular a decade ago, though it was criticised for being a jack of all trades and master of none with too frequent deloads kept the volume pretty low. It wasn't a bodybuilding routine, nor Olympic/power lifting. Great for increasing overall strength though. I did the original 5/3/1 a few years ago and really enjoyed it, only quit because I got lazy and lost my mojo using a couple of minor injury niggles as an excuse.
When it was revised with Beyond 5/3/1 deloads were pretty much halved in frequency and loads of options included for sport specific training.
The programme in short is four main lifts; Press, Squat, Bench Press & Deadlift plus accessory work organized into 'cycles'. Each cycle is seven weeks long with the last week being deload.
Week 1 of a cycle is effectively 3 sets of 5 reps, the last set as many reps as possible (AMRAP), plus joker sets if you have the energy.
Week 2 is 3 x 3, otherwise as week one
Week 3 is 5 reps at 75% TM, 3 reps 85% and 1+ reps (AMRAP) at 95%
Week 4, 5 & 6 are similar with increased weight; +2.5 kg on upper +5 kg on lower.
Week 7 deload.
There's way more to it, but that's the principle. Vitally, it is important to begin with weights that are lower than you believe you should - it may feel daft for a few weeks, but even for someone with pretty good form and some previous experience it's humbling and demoralizing how it can catch you out if you begin too heavy. Buy the books - it's all there.
I stopped drinking a few weeks ago and need somewhere to channel my increased energy so after a year or so of sporadic, half-hearted training I decided to start training again. I need a prescribed programme to keep me on the straight and narrow and the 'new' Wendler 5/3/1 is my weapon of choice.
I'm keeping a blog of my progress which I may share later. Not sure if my notes would help or entertain anyone else but it's there to help keep me focussed.
So, any other 5/3/1 advocates or otherwise out there?
I may well be wrong, but my understanding is Jim Wendler's original programme was quite popular a decade ago, though it was criticised for being a jack of all trades and master of none with too frequent deloads kept the volume pretty low. It wasn't a bodybuilding routine, nor Olympic/power lifting. Great for increasing overall strength though. I did the original 5/3/1 a few years ago and really enjoyed it, only quit because I got lazy and lost my mojo using a couple of minor injury niggles as an excuse.
When it was revised with Beyond 5/3/1 deloads were pretty much halved in frequency and loads of options included for sport specific training.
The programme in short is four main lifts; Press, Squat, Bench Press & Deadlift plus accessory work organized into 'cycles'. Each cycle is seven weeks long with the last week being deload.
Week 1 of a cycle is effectively 3 sets of 5 reps, the last set as many reps as possible (AMRAP), plus joker sets if you have the energy.
Week 2 is 3 x 3, otherwise as week one
Week 3 is 5 reps at 75% TM, 3 reps 85% and 1+ reps (AMRAP) at 95%
Week 4, 5 & 6 are similar with increased weight; +2.5 kg on upper +5 kg on lower.
Week 7 deload.
There's way more to it, but that's the principle. Vitally, it is important to begin with weights that are lower than you believe you should - it may feel daft for a few weeks, but even for someone with pretty good form and some previous experience it's humbling and demoralizing how it can catch you out if you begin too heavy. Buy the books - it's all there.
I stopped drinking a few weeks ago and need somewhere to channel my increased energy so after a year or so of sporadic, half-hearted training I decided to start training again. I need a prescribed programme to keep me on the straight and narrow and the 'new' Wendler 5/3/1 is my weapon of choice.
I'm keeping a blog of my progress which I may share later. Not sure if my notes would help or entertain anyone else but it's there to help keep me focussed.
So, any other 5/3/1 advocates or otherwise out there?
pimpchez said:
One thing i will also say is , dont get caught up in 5s and 2.5s. Go up in increments of 10kg , if you struggle drop the weight.
531 is so simple at its core , i have been reading the beyond book this morning and its seems developed just to increase the size of his wallet.
Couldn't agree less. 531 is so simple at its core , i have been reading the beyond book this morning and its seems developed just to increase the size of his wallet.
2.5 kg is a big increase on the Press in particular, I have a pair of 0.5 kg plates so I can keep increasing, albeit slowly, for far longer than otherwise.
Beyond 5/3/1 has some interesting concepts, especially the acknowledgement that deloads every fourth week is too much (little?) for many. Seven weeks before a deload is preferable for me certainly. The additional info on accessories made it a worthwhile 'upgrade' too.
didelydoo said:
LordGrover said:
Couldn't agree less.
2.5 kg is a big increase on the Press in particular, I have a pair of 0.5 kg plates so I can keep increasing, albeit slowly, for far longer than otherwise.
Beyond 5/3/1 has some interesting concepts, especially the acknowledgement that deloads every fourth week is too much (little?) for many. Seven weeks before a deload is preferable for me certainly. The additional info on accessories made it a worthwhile 'upgrade' too.
But bear in mind, if you used 10kg increments on the press, you'd add 120kg+ to it in only 1 year! 2.5 kg is a big increase on the Press in particular, I have a pair of 0.5 kg plates so I can keep increasing, albeit slowly, for far longer than otherwise.
Beyond 5/3/1 has some interesting concepts, especially the acknowledgement that deloads every fourth week is too much (little?) for many. Seven weeks before a deload is preferable for me certainly. The additional info on accessories made it a worthwhile 'upgrade' too.
didelydoo said:
I'm not a big fan of 5/3/1 anyway- no where near enough intensity & volume for my liking.
To be fair, it's an 'advanced beginner' or intermediate programme for lazy gits like me who don't create their own.Also, Beyond 5/3/1 in particular, you are encouraged to add accessories ad infinitum so you can have as much volume and intensity as you like, so long as you stick to the principle of starting light and small increments on the main compounds.
ETA Link to the basics for those unfamiliar with the original programme and don't want to buy the book unseen: T_NATION.
Edited by LordGrover on Wednesday 7th October 14:16
For the record, just started cycle 1, week 4 and enjoying it, a lot.
It's so much better (for me) to know exactly what's to be done every workout. Contrary to advice, I'm adding in a few extras if there's gas in the tank as I'm still at light weights for the main lifts.
What I find remarkable is how quickly my body responds to structured training. After a year or so of on again - off again hit & miss sessions with pretty much zero in return - I'm visibly losing fat and gaining muscle already. I shouldn't be surprised, I've been here before but there's always something that gets in the way, or I get comfortable with what I've got.
It's so much better (for me) to know exactly what's to be done every workout. Contrary to advice, I'm adding in a few extras if there's gas in the tank as I'm still at light weights for the main lifts.
What I find remarkable is how quickly my body responds to structured training. After a year or so of on again - off again hit & miss sessions with pretty much zero in return - I'm visibly losing fat and gaining muscle already. I shouldn't be surprised, I've been here before but there's always something that gets in the way, or I get comfortable with what I've got.
TheBALDpuma said:
I use my own variation of 5/3/1 on some of my athletes - Basically the 5/3/1 on the main lifts, with my own accessory work around them. I use it for athletes who have a good base, but are still in the noobie zone in terms of gainz. I like it for that, but wouldn't do it myself.
That's me, right there. I've been 'training' for c. ten years - get so far and pack it in for a while. If I'd stuck at it I'd be pulling the world by now - as it is I'm working my way back up. again. Noob gainz FTW!
Last workout of first cycle tonight; that's six weeks 'proper' plus this week which is deload.
Slow steady progress in everything so far, but that's not difficult as I didn't set a high starting point.
I'm sticking with small increments as prescribed, apart from deadlift where I started too low. I'm only jumping 10 kgs instead of 5 but expecting it to help a little. If not, I'll do a greater increase again next cycle.
Very pleased with how it's going, though I'm also going to switch to low carbs to see how that works out.
While it's going well like this I love it.
Slow steady progress in everything so far, but that's not difficult as I didn't set a high starting point.
I'm sticking with small increments as prescribed, apart from deadlift where I started too low. I'm only jumping 10 kgs instead of 5 but expecting it to help a little. If not, I'll do a greater increase again next cycle.
Very pleased with how it's going, though I'm also going to switch to low carbs to see how that works out.
While it's going well like this I love it.
Thanks dude.
Looks like we're different then. I've messed about with macros for many years, starting with good old Atkins in the 90's. I just get leaner and have more energy when I cut starchy carbs and up my fat intake. The other benefit is I don't need to faff about counting calories - I can eat as much meat and veg as I like and don't store body fat.
I only go back to carbs when I get lazy - it's so much easier to fill up on rice, potatoes and pasta but I invariably get fatter and slower.
Looks like we're different then. I've messed about with macros for many years, starting with good old Atkins in the 90's. I just get leaner and have more energy when I cut starchy carbs and up my fat intake. The other benefit is I don't need to faff about counting calories - I can eat as much meat and veg as I like and don't store body fat.
I only go back to carbs when I get lazy - it's so much easier to fill up on rice, potatoes and pasta but I invariably get fatter and slower.
didelydoo said:
I'm not a big fan of 5/3/1 anyway- no where near enough intensity & volume for my liking.
You're right. Again.
Made steady progress up until Christmas and was fairly happy, until I checked back. It's painfully slow - better suited to someone with a stronger base than me. If your press is already at bodyweight or more then a few pounds a month/six weeks is good progress, but at my level it feels too slow.
The other issue for me is I've found it a bit tedious, though I may return to it if/when I get properly strong and fail to progress with whatever I do in the future.
For the time being, I'm switching back to an old favourite, SL5x5. Squatting three times a week should up the intensity nicely.
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