Ketosis - Low carb/high fat diet. Experiences?
Discussion
Please go easy on me, I'm a dieting/healthy eating n00b.
I've been shown a diet plan to start ketosis, however the fact thats it's relatively high fat has alarm bells ringing. Sure I understand the science but still, I hate the thought of eating cheeses, nuts oils and all the other crap I have been cutting out in case I put weight on. Problem is, if I don't eat them and I'm not supposed to eat above 40-50g of carbs, my calorie intake sits at about 650 a day which surely isn't good.
So about 6 weeks ago I decided to lose a bit of the fat around my midsection in prep for the usual Christmas feasting and boozing in the hopes that I'd come out the other side looking slightly better than most years.
I did this purely by starting a low fat diet (still reasonably low carb at 150g) which actually makes me feel healthier and is easy to sustain and so intend to continue this as my food plan for the foreseeable future. I initially started without workouts and continued over Christmas adding in press ups, sit ups, jogging and various core exercises into the mix.
When I consciously started the diet, I was bordering 12 stone, and weighing myself today I'm now 10 1/2 stone. I'm 26 and 5'10" so this all seems to be in acceptable limits. My shoulders and arms look bigger and more defined, and I think there is a decent set of abs under what is still a fair layer of fat.
Anyway, thanks for reading all the guff, my question is weather or not I should switch to the low carb diet or just stick with what I'm doing already. My ultimate aim is to drop to between 10-15% body fat as i believe I'm more or less between 20-25% currently.
Ta in advance for any guidance
I've been shown a diet plan to start ketosis, however the fact thats it's relatively high fat has alarm bells ringing. Sure I understand the science but still, I hate the thought of eating cheeses, nuts oils and all the other crap I have been cutting out in case I put weight on. Problem is, if I don't eat them and I'm not supposed to eat above 40-50g of carbs, my calorie intake sits at about 650 a day which surely isn't good.
So about 6 weeks ago I decided to lose a bit of the fat around my midsection in prep for the usual Christmas feasting and boozing in the hopes that I'd come out the other side looking slightly better than most years.
I did this purely by starting a low fat diet (still reasonably low carb at 150g) which actually makes me feel healthier and is easy to sustain and so intend to continue this as my food plan for the foreseeable future. I initially started without workouts and continued over Christmas adding in press ups, sit ups, jogging and various core exercises into the mix.
When I consciously started the diet, I was bordering 12 stone, and weighing myself today I'm now 10 1/2 stone. I'm 26 and 5'10" so this all seems to be in acceptable limits. My shoulders and arms look bigger and more defined, and I think there is a decent set of abs under what is still a fair layer of fat.
Anyway, thanks for reading all the guff, my question is weather or not I should switch to the low carb diet or just stick with what I'm doing already. My ultimate aim is to drop to between 10-15% body fat as i believe I'm more or less between 20-25% currently.
Ta in advance for any guidance
Edited by Pebbles167 on Sunday 3rd January 15:13
Cheers for the replies.
Elliott, you say you were/are an endurance athlete, do you think the negative effects would be so severe on someone like myself who does 20 minutes of sit/press/crunch and a few miles jog a day? (Ocassionally gym, but less so after metalwork placed in my wrists) The reason i ask is where you said it is potentially unsustainable, i wonder if perhaps i might be able to as I'm generally less active than you would be.
Grumbledoak, interesting stuff on Taubes' website. May purchase some of the literature if i intended to continue with this. As for drinking/scoffing carbs, I'd ideally like to think i could resist most temptations and I'm not really a drinker. That being said, on the odd birthday i guess I'd have to eat very light in the day, take it easy with low carb booze or just not have any. I guess it's not such q big loss!
Elliott, you say you were/are an endurance athlete, do you think the negative effects would be so severe on someone like myself who does 20 minutes of sit/press/crunch and a few miles jog a day? (Ocassionally gym, but less so after metalwork placed in my wrists) The reason i ask is where you said it is potentially unsustainable, i wonder if perhaps i might be able to as I'm generally less active than you would be.
Grumbledoak, interesting stuff on Taubes' website. May purchase some of the literature if i intended to continue with this. As for drinking/scoffing carbs, I'd ideally like to think i could resist most temptations and I'm not really a drinker. That being said, on the odd birthday i guess I'd have to eat very light in the day, take it easy with low carb booze or just not have any. I guess it's not such q big loss!
Cheers for the various bits of info.
944fan, a friend does what he calls carb 'backloading'. He has a very low carb diet but on a heavy training day will scoff carbs after a workout. The guy is massive and very defined, obviously works for him. I'm quite small and my original intention wasn't to gain large muscle mass, just to lose fat and tone what i do have. Would carb cycling help?
Kam, feel free to share, i wouldn't consider it a hijack. Sure I'm interested in ketosis, but ultimately I'm all for learning about weight loss however it's done. After all, i easily lost 1.5 stone in about 5 weeks through just limiting calories by about 25% RDA.
944fan, a friend does what he calls carb 'backloading'. He has a very low carb diet but on a heavy training day will scoff carbs after a workout. The guy is massive and very defined, obviously works for him. I'm quite small and my original intention wasn't to gain large muscle mass, just to lose fat and tone what i do have. Would carb cycling help?
Kam, feel free to share, i wouldn't consider it a hijack. Sure I'm interested in ketosis, but ultimately I'm all for learning about weight loss however it's done. After all, i easily lost 1.5 stone in about 5 weeks through just limiting calories by about 25% RDA.
Some interesting info here, and some terrific weight loss stories! I'm now at 9st 12lbs, which considering I've not been on the diet that long isn't bad at all. Also, being 5'10" means I'm very close to target weight. Also, I haven't noticed any poor smell, and nor has anyone else, even friends when questioned. I'm talking no body odor, bad breath or anything else. Seems fine
So for those who are interested, here are my experiences with ketosis so far:
The good:
1.) It really does work, fast. As long as you're keeping a sensible calorie intake (IE: under 2k daily) you'll likely see results, although initially it's just water. I'm looking pretty lean and toned now. A few more pounds away from my midsection and I'll have a six pack I expect.
2.) The energy I have is pretty impressive. On longer runs I'm able to really pace it out long past points where I'd have slowed before. On shorter runs I can really blitz them.
3.) High fat food is surprisingly low in calories per its weight. You can eat a fair amount and feel satisfied for the day without having to starve.
The indifferent:
1.) You're going to piss like a racehorse early on, and still more often than you're used to after that, so keep that water intake very high. You'll feel terrible otherwise.
2.) Get used to being in the kitchen preparing stuff. You'll have to fry/bake/grill a lot of what you eat, and prepare in advance
3.) You'll have to turn down a lot of stuff when offered, and really get to know your foods. Carbs are everywhere and it'll be all to easy to knock yourself out of ketosis if you don't pay attention. It's not happened to me but I've been pretty fastidious with my research.
The BAD:
1.) Christ, all the best stuff has massive carbs, so you'll have to miss out a lot of favorite foods. The carb cravings are at first insane, but they do subside somewhat. Sure, having bacon, sausage and eggs each day is a novelty at first but it soon wears off and you'd give anything just to have a bowl of cereal.
2.) The first few days where you enter ketosis are not nice. I was tired, unwell and felt like I could pass out a few times. Not everyone gets this, but its something to be aware of depending on job and life circumstances.
3.) Muscle is hard to build, or at least very slow. As I understand it you need to burn carbs for that really so if getting big is your thing it's probably not wise to go on this diet.
Think that pretty much covers it for now!
So for those who are interested, here are my experiences with ketosis so far:
The good:
1.) It really does work, fast. As long as you're keeping a sensible calorie intake (IE: under 2k daily) you'll likely see results, although initially it's just water. I'm looking pretty lean and toned now. A few more pounds away from my midsection and I'll have a six pack I expect.
2.) The energy I have is pretty impressive. On longer runs I'm able to really pace it out long past points where I'd have slowed before. On shorter runs I can really blitz them.
3.) High fat food is surprisingly low in calories per its weight. You can eat a fair amount and feel satisfied for the day without having to starve.
The indifferent:
1.) You're going to piss like a racehorse early on, and still more often than you're used to after that, so keep that water intake very high. You'll feel terrible otherwise.
2.) Get used to being in the kitchen preparing stuff. You'll have to fry/bake/grill a lot of what you eat, and prepare in advance
3.) You'll have to turn down a lot of stuff when offered, and really get to know your foods. Carbs are everywhere and it'll be all to easy to knock yourself out of ketosis if you don't pay attention. It's not happened to me but I've been pretty fastidious with my research.
The BAD:
1.) Christ, all the best stuff has massive carbs, so you'll have to miss out a lot of favorite foods. The carb cravings are at first insane, but they do subside somewhat. Sure, having bacon, sausage and eggs each day is a novelty at first but it soon wears off and you'd give anything just to have a bowl of cereal.
2.) The first few days where you enter ketosis are not nice. I was tired, unwell and felt like I could pass out a few times. Not everyone gets this, but its something to be aware of depending on job and life circumstances.
3.) Muscle is hard to build, or at least very slow. As I understand it you need to burn carbs for that really so if getting big is your thing it's probably not wise to go on this diet.
Think that pretty much covers it for now!
I was also quite surprised when I looked at my weight, but ultimately I'm not properly skinny. Someone would look at me and call me average. I have a reasonable muscle mass, and my shoulders and stuff look fine. I also have an inch layer of fat on my midsection so still have a bit to go potentially.
Very strange eh!
Very strange eh!
944fan said:
So almost a full week in. I have lost 10lbs 
A lot will be water but also I have gone up a notch on my belt so the waist has got a little smaller. fell pretty good to be fair. Pee sticks show urine ketone levels at 0.5. Looks like optimum is between 1.5 and 3 so guess it will take a couple of weeks to get there.
Might be unrelated but my long running anxiety has been better this week, on the night I did have carbs my heart was pounding like mad.
Yeah some will be water, but that's just the start, you're on the right track. Soon you'll start visibly noticing the difference and if you're training you'll feel it too. I've lost nearly 3 stone and feeling much healthier. The downsides are generally pretty easy to deal with, they mainly consist of shopping about well as the food is often expensive, and spending time planning meals as it's very easy to mess up and exit ketosis. Or miss a meal and feel awful. As regards ketostix, don't worry about them too much. At first they'll show dark purple but will get lighter over time, pink is what you're after as it's showing trace amounts. This means your body is burning a good amount of ketones, if ìts purple it's got more spare which in a few weeks will possibly mean you're eating too much. I rarely show purple anymore. A lot will be water but also I have gone up a notch on my belt so the waist has got a little smaller. fell pretty good to be fair. Pee sticks show urine ketone levels at 0.5. Looks like optimum is between 1.5 and 3 so guess it will take a couple of weeks to get there.Might be unrelated but my long running anxiety has been better this week, on the night I did have carbs my heart was pounding like mad.
Either way, glad you're getting on well. As for the anxiety, i can't say. It's possible that you're going through the 'keto flu' where mild feelings of weirdness are supposedly not uncommon.
I fell into a bit of a trap today. I work nights and after a long shift I decided to get a hotel to stay in. With a few hours to kill before check in I tried to drive to the local Tesco for some lunch. Easier said than done in busy London Traffic.
By the time i reached the shop, I'd been up for 26 hours and not eaten in 12. Needless to say I was starving. Spotting the deli counter I wandered over and bought a few things for the coming couple of days. A large roast bacon joint and three double bags of large hot and spicy sausages.
No sooner had I got back to my van I'd eaten the lot! I just couldn't stop! I'd estimate it at at least 3000 calories and so compared to my usual 1600 this was far too much.
Aside from the calories I now guess the carb count was pretty high. Around 100 perhaps? I'm usually spoiled by high quality 0 carb sausages, but in this case who knows. When i remembered that sausages can contain carbs I felt so guilty I went for a 45 minute jog and blasted out a couple of hundred press ups, sit ups and a few minutes of planks. Not sure why, I just had to do something.
Either way, I feel DREADFUL. 9 hours on with 5 hours of broken sleep later I feel bloated, sick, lethargic, hot and my head hurts. I'm guessing this is from sheer volume of food, probably exiting Ketosis and mild dehydration?
I've got work tonight, and really cant be arsed. Anyone got any advice to make me feel better?! I just wanted to share a quick story whilst sat in a hotel feeling sorry for my gluttonous self
By the time i reached the shop, I'd been up for 26 hours and not eaten in 12. Needless to say I was starving. Spotting the deli counter I wandered over and bought a few things for the coming couple of days. A large roast bacon joint and three double bags of large hot and spicy sausages.
No sooner had I got back to my van I'd eaten the lot! I just couldn't stop! I'd estimate it at at least 3000 calories and so compared to my usual 1600 this was far too much.
Aside from the calories I now guess the carb count was pretty high. Around 100 perhaps? I'm usually spoiled by high quality 0 carb sausages, but in this case who knows. When i remembered that sausages can contain carbs I felt so guilty I went for a 45 minute jog and blasted out a couple of hundred press ups, sit ups and a few minutes of planks. Not sure why, I just had to do something.
Either way, I feel DREADFUL. 9 hours on with 5 hours of broken sleep later I feel bloated, sick, lethargic, hot and my head hurts. I'm guessing this is from sheer volume of food, probably exiting Ketosis and mild dehydration?
I've got work tonight, and really cant be arsed. Anyone got any advice to make me feel better?! I just wanted to share a quick story whilst sat in a hotel feeling sorry for my gluttonous self
FredClogs said:
Errr, no it doesn't, not really. It's just normal food but with no carbs or sugars. You don't get many nutrients from carbs and sugars anyway, magnesium especially should be coming from salads, veg, meat, nuts, fish etc... all of which you can bang away at on a ketosis diet (except maybe the nuts I dunno I never followed it strictly.)
If you're closely keeping track of everything, then sure, you can get all of that. But if you're moving quickly through your day with the only dietry concern on your mind being to avoid carbs, then yes it does. Jeez..
FredClogs said:
I'd be interested to know how that first hit of carbs feels in your stomach and what it does to your blood sugar, for a variety of reasons I succumbed at lunch today for a kfc (zinger tower meal) and whilst eating it was a complete mouth orgasm (the Pepsi even tasted good) by 2:30 I was groaning with stomach ache and falling asleep :-)
That sounds EXACTLY like what's happened to me on carb ups. You'll perhaps also get massively hungry later on and want to eat everything in the house. At least i did! Best thing to do is to try not to overeat and just get back on target quickly and you'll be fine. Even if you do succumb to hunger cravings and eat loads (high or low carb) just take it as a learning experience, note what happens and get back on the wagon. Remembering the process will help next time it happens. Stick with it!
I've been keto dieting since the start of this topic. I've lost two stone now, and three stone overall since weight loss began in October/November. I still slip up occasionally but I've yet to intentionally indulge in high carb food (although occasional overindulgence in sugar free sweets has happened! )
Well weighing myself tonight I'm at 58.5kg (9.3 stone) so literally boardering on what's generally considered healthy weight i guess. I'm quite small framed naturally so i don't look especially slim.
I'm not training for anything but i do exercise. Until recently i was taking around 1750 calories a day, combined with a 4 mile run, 200 sit ups, 200 pressups, 100 bicep curls and 4 minutes of mixed plank. No rest days. In order to get myself to a comfortable weight of around 10 stone I've upped the cals to 2000 (with the semi occasional binge day of 3000+) and halved the exercise adding in a reat day. To be honest though over the last month i don't seemed to have gained anything so I'm going to rethink.
I'm not training for anything but i do exercise. Until recently i was taking around 1750 calories a day, combined with a 4 mile run, 200 sit ups, 200 pressups, 100 bicep curls and 4 minutes of mixed plank. No rest days. In order to get myself to a comfortable weight of around 10 stone I've upped the cals to 2000 (with the semi occasional binge day of 3000+) and halved the exercise adding in a reat day. To be honest though over the last month i don't seemed to have gained anything so I'm going to rethink.
DuncanM said:
Your fitness must be excellent going on what you are doing.
However, with a bmi of 18.5, low enough to get thrown out of some catwalk shows for being too skinny, I can't see how you can consider yourself anything other than extremely slim?
What do your friends and family think?
I'm above average fitness for the population I'd expect, but considering most of the population are couch potato's that's not saying much! I'm no athlete for sure. Half marathon is the longest fitness events I do occasionally. However, with a bmi of 18.5, low enough to get thrown out of some catwalk shows for being too skinny, I can't see how you can consider yourself anything other than extremely slim?
What do your friends and family think?
A few are concerned, but I believe that's due to the quick weight loss associated with ketogenic diets. I've been this weight before but as it's been a while since I was I think it's just more noticeable.
I feel pretty good for the most part. I used to feel very bloated regularly and lethargic, but I'm able to have better energy during the day now. I do crash harder though, I've noticed it in the evenings. I fall asleep early during films or any sort of rest activity wherever I am. Something I didn't do before.
On the ketosis note though, I do intend to reintroduce carbs at some point.. but when? and how best to go about it? It would certainly feel weird for example to go and have a bowl of granola (something I adore) and I'd struggle not to feel guilt. Whilst I sometimes give into temptation and overeat or exceed my calorie plan, I'm very disciplined with keeping off high carb foods.
Edited by Pebbles167 on Wednesday 23 March 23:10
Aww, i appreciate the concern guys
Honestly though, despite my emotive writing I've got a handle on it.
I get the impression you imagine me sitting there quietly alone in darkened rooms without food worrying about what i can and can't eat staring at a bowl of granola! Not true. I enjoy a decent mixed diet. Nice hearty breakfasts of meats, eggs and fish with a decent lunch salad with nuts/fruit and a big dinner with a decent selection of cheeses and vegetables. Perhaps even a takeaway if the mood takes me.
It just seems that a low carb diet works very quickly and effectively for me.
I think it's the time to reintroduce carbs slowly and just keep to a sensible but normal diet we'll see how it goes.
Honestly though, despite my emotive writing I've got a handle on it.
I get the impression you imagine me sitting there quietly alone in darkened rooms without food worrying about what i can and can't eat staring at a bowl of granola! Not true. I enjoy a decent mixed diet. Nice hearty breakfasts of meats, eggs and fish with a decent lunch salad with nuts/fruit and a big dinner with a decent selection of cheeses and vegetables. Perhaps even a takeaway if the mood takes me.
It just seems that a low carb diet works very quickly and effectively for me.
I think it's the time to reintroduce carbs slowly and just keep to a sensible but normal diet
we'll see how it goes.FredClogs said:
I'm struggling to know what to eat at breakfast, no toast, no porridge, no muesli etc... There's only so many boiled eggs I want to eat and the time I have in the mornings is limited.
Today's breakfast consisted of:30g of linwoods mixed flax and chia seeds, 200ml of alpro unsweetened almond or soya milk with a 50g dollop of alpro natural coconut yoghurt and 50g of raspberries. Add stevia/truvia to taste.
Calories: 250ish.
Carbs: 6g
Taste: Awesome. Remarkably like granola!
Breakfast need not be boring or unhealthy
twoblacklines said:
I lost 6stone on ketosis in 6 months last year.
I start again on Monday. Not looking forward to the first 3-4 days!
Yeah the first few days suck. Headaches, light headedness and thirst. Still, the novelty of eating mass bacon, eggs and cheese each morning will be fresh and enjoyable I start again on Monday. Not looking forward to the first 3-4 days!
So everyone, to bring the thread up to date.
3 months since i started keto, and it's been an enlightening and enjoyable journey for the most part, and I feel I've learned a lot about content in foods and how to keep track of what I'm eating.
That being said, my current job requirements and life circumstances make me feel that the time has come to go back to a regular diet, effectively based around the "if it fits your macros" idea. I'd prefer to avoid any sort of diet that restricts food groups until i maybe resume keto at some point later this year. Sadly, keto just doesn't give my body the same level of performance as a regular diet, despite being a very effective weight loss tool (something i no longer want).
As i understand it, as long as i eat a balanced amount of each nutritional source and stick at, or just above maintenance, weight gain will be gradual, apart from the initial water retention of course.
My reason for the posting is that I'd like a few opinions on how best to do it. My aim is to gain a bit of weight and then stabilise it at a more reasonable level.
Now just because I'm ending keto doesn't mean I'll be back on the pie and chips each night, that's not the idea at all. I was on a healthy diet prior to keto, and i intend to go back to something similar.
As it stands, the few times I've indulged in carbs by accident I've felt pretty ill and I'd like to lessen this during the transituon. I'd also like to try avoid huge weight gain in a small space of time.
Any suggestions, advice or concerns welcome
Pebbles.
3 months since i started keto, and it's been an enlightening and enjoyable journey for the most part, and I feel I've learned a lot about content in foods and how to keep track of what I'm eating.
That being said, my current job requirements and life circumstances make me feel that the time has come to go back to a regular diet, effectively based around the "if it fits your macros" idea. I'd prefer to avoid any sort of diet that restricts food groups until i maybe resume keto at some point later this year. Sadly, keto just doesn't give my body the same level of performance as a regular diet, despite being a very effective weight loss tool (something i no longer want).
As i understand it, as long as i eat a balanced amount of each nutritional source and stick at, or just above maintenance, weight gain will be gradual, apart from the initial water retention of course.
My reason for the posting is that I'd like a few opinions on how best to do it. My aim is to gain a bit of weight and then stabilise it at a more reasonable level.
Now just because I'm ending keto doesn't mean I'll be back on the pie and chips each night, that's not the idea at all. I was on a healthy diet prior to keto, and i intend to go back to something similar.
As it stands, the few times I've indulged in carbs by accident I've felt pretty ill and I'd like to lessen this during the transituon. I'd also like to try avoid huge weight gain in a small space of time.
Any suggestions, advice or concerns welcome
Pebbles.
I wouldn't allow myself to casually eat off plan, so i decided to dive right in. Basically it ended up with me going on a huge late night binge and eating every carb in sight for the next day. Easily 8000kcal and 500g carbs down the hatch. I ate on plan for the following week, and caved to the cravings and did the same the following weekend.
Certainly not perfect, but it's helped me get rid of my obsession with food and mealtimes somewhat, which is good. It's not cured my binge eating episodes, but i can work on that.
I'm now eating relatively normally, i just generally try to avoid grains and sugar where possible. Weight loss isn't my goal after all, just a relatively healthy diet. As you've suggested, the carbs i take on are generally from vegetables, nuts and a bit of fruit.
Certainly not perfect, but it's helped me get rid of my obsession with food and mealtimes somewhat, which is good. It's not cured my binge eating episodes, but i can work on that.
I'm now eating relatively normally, i just generally try to avoid grains and sugar where possible. Weight loss isn't my goal after all, just a relatively healthy diet. As you've suggested, the carbs i take on are generally from vegetables, nuts and a bit of fruit.
Edited by Pebbles167 on Sunday 24th April 04:48
I'm with LordGrover here, basing a diet on calories in/out alone is ineffective.
When i was losing weight initially, i took on 3500-4000kcal a day, with nothing more than moderate exercise. The weight fell off. The fact that the calories came from lean meats, vegetables and sources of saturated fats and protein caused my body to be an efficient fat burning tool.
I'm pretty sure i could have eaten a 2000kcal a day diet full of carbs without results that were nearly as pronounced.
For the record, a small rough weight diary: (Edit: Worth noting I'm no longer in Ketosis and I've changed my way of eating)
Male - 26 - 5'10"
October 2015 - 12st 9lbs (regular diet)
November 2015 - 12st 3lbs
December 2015 - 11st 12lbs
January 2016 - 11st 0lbs (ketogenic diet)
February 2016 - 10st 2lbs
March 2016 - 9st 3lbs
April 2016 - 8st 6lbs
When i was losing weight initially, i took on 3500-4000kcal a day, with nothing more than moderate exercise. The weight fell off. The fact that the calories came from lean meats, vegetables and sources of saturated fats and protein caused my body to be an efficient fat burning tool.
I'm pretty sure i could have eaten a 2000kcal a day diet full of carbs without results that were nearly as pronounced.
For the record, a small rough weight diary: (Edit: Worth noting I'm no longer in Ketosis and I've changed my way of eating)
Male - 26 - 5'10"
October 2015 - 12st 9lbs (regular diet)
November 2015 - 12st 3lbs
December 2015 - 11st 12lbs
January 2016 - 11st 0lbs (ketogenic diet)
February 2016 - 10st 2lbs
March 2016 - 9st 3lbs
April 2016 - 8st 6lbs
Edited by Pebbles167 on Tuesday 26th April 11:45
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