Do you take any supplements ?

[J4CKO]

i.e. those doing weight training ?

I just have the Whey Protein and have a shake of one scoop of that in milk after training, apart from anything I need a drink anyway and the Myprotein Vanilla is strangely compelling, like melted Vanilla Ice Cream with a hint of dust the Mint Chocolate is a bit grim.

I have some creatine I bought at the same time but not sure whether I should be taking that, I have put a bit in with my post workout shake but probably need some advice, am training 3 times a week and stepping up what I do.

Anyone take anything else (legal), just interested really.

[J4CKO]

Does anyone not use Whey powder ?

Much as I like, Meat, Fish Nuts etc sometimes it is hard work to ensure a steady supply and get it down.

Also, do you lot mix it with Milk or water typically ?

[J4CKO]

otolith said:

I have been trying to maintain a high protein intake with a relatively low calorie intake. I find whey protein quite handy for that.

That is my aim as well, starting to see improvements now, not losing much weight but trousers fitting better (eyes not bulging any more) and seeing some definition, still reckon there is 2 stone of flab to get rid of.

Going to take a while !

[J4CKO]

otolith said:

Down to 11.5st, from 15st at Xmas. Still got some fat round the middle to dispose of, but focusing more on gaining some lean mass now - a month of serious calorie restriction and cardio would take a big chunk out of what is left, which I will do at some point, but it's not much fun.

Jesus, thats good going, I want to get to 15 stone, currently 17 st 5.

When I calculate my BMI, my ideal weight at 6ft is apparently between

9st 10lbs and 13st 1lbs

Short of disease, not sure how that would be possible !

My scales say I am 29 percent lard (not sure how accurate but sounds plausible) , 35 percent muscle, so if I get my Bodyfat down to 15 percent that is about 2 stone 5 away, i.e. my 15 stone aim, would have to go lower than 15 percent BF to go lower, or lose muscle, to get to the maximum weight the BMI says of 13.1 I would need to be at 5 percent Bodyfat !

The one positive I take from this is I have more muscle than fat.

[J4CKO]

ORD said:

J4CKO said:

otolith said:

Down to 11.5st, from 15st at Xmas. Still got some fat round the middle to dispose of, but focusing more on gaining some lean mass now - a month of serious calorie restriction and cardio would take a big chunk out of what is left, which I will do at some point, but it's not much fun.

Jesus, thats good going, I want to get to 15 stone, currently 17 st 5.

When I calculate my BMI, my ideal weight at 6ft is apparently between

9st 10lbs and 13st 1lbs

Short of disease, not sure how that would be possible !

My scales say I am 29 percent lard (not sure how accurate but sounds plausible) , 35 percent muscle, so if I get my Bodyfat down to 15 percent that is about 2 stone 5 away, i.e. my 15 stone aim, would have to go lower than 15 percent BF to go lower, or lose muscle, to get to the maximum weight the BMI says of 13.1 I would need to be at 5 percent Bodyfat !

The one positive I take from this is I have more muscle than fat.

Unless you are very broad and/or strong, I think your scales are being very kind. I think your muscle mass is being overstated and your bodyfat understated.

To give you a comparison, I am slightly shorter than you (5'11) and am about 11% bf at 12 stone 8 pounds (80kg). I am a normal kinda shape (neither broad nor slight).

I am generally regarded as having pretty broad shoulders and have fairly large thighs from cycling, been training for a bit now and put a fair bit of muscle on.

Can only really go on what the scales say, definitely need to lose weight, working on it, dont think I could get anywhere near 13 stone though, 14 maybe, 15 more realistic. 29 percent body fat is enough to be going on with, even if the scales are not that accurate they should show I am going in the right direction.

Would be interesting to know what my actual shoulder width is, average is apparently about 17 to 18 inches.

Edited by J4CKO on Monday 26th September 16:48

[J4CKO]

ORD said:

J4CKO said:

I am generally regarded as having pretty broad shoulders and have fairly large thighs from cycling, been training for a bit now and put a fair bit of muscle on.

Can only really go on what the scales say, definitely need to lose weight, working on it, dont think I could get anywhere near 13 stone though, 14 maybe, 15 more realistic, will the

Would be interesting to know what my actual shoulder width is, average is apparently about 17 to 18 inches.

Not picking on you at all, Jacko. Getting down to 14 from 17 stone would be bloody good work!

My point is just that men generally massively overestimate their actual and potential lean muscle mass. It is possible, just about, that your leanish weight (say 10-12% bodyfat) would be 14-15 stone. But you would be quite exceptionally well-built. I think that is approximately the maximum muscle mass for non-steroid using bodybuilders at your height.

Ok, fair dos, will see how I feel when I get down to 15, and take it from there, am not exceptionally well built, fairly muscular now but am guessing there must be another stone or more hiding in fat then !

Not aiming to go lower than 15 percent though, well if I get there I will be ecstatic.

Edited by J4CKO on Monday 26th September 19:08

[J4CKO]

HappyMidget said:

J4CKO said:

Ok, fiar dos, will see how I feel when I get down to 15, and take it from there, am not exceptionally well built, fairly muscular now but am guessing there must be another stone or more hiding in fat then !

These guys are all under 15 stone (v low bf, but you get the gist) http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/2014-arnold-classi...

Bet they dont float as well as I do

What percentage BF are they, 5 ish ?

[J4CKO]

Was interested so measured shoulder width, wife said 23 inches, I reckon it was nearer 22, measuring from the widest part of the deltoid as per the guide I found, I must have put some width on as I have found myself brushing things anticipating being marginally narrower.

So, fairly broad, but still a fat knacker

Edited by J4CKO on Monday 26th September 22:23

[J4CKO]

Was interested so measured shoulder width, wife said 23 inches, I reckon it was nearer 22, measuring from the widest part of the deltoid as per the guide I found, I must have put some width on as I have found myself brushing things anticipating being marginally narrower.

So, fairly broad, but still a fat knacker

Edited by J4CKO on Tuesday 27th September 19:01

[J4CKO]

ORD said:

Fairly broad? That's the width of a small house! An inch of that might be fat, but you'll have some impressive shoulders when you shift that weight.

The average is 18 1/2 inches apparently, even allowing for poor measurement and fat I am broader than average but its only slight mitigation, still well overweight, would need to be four foot wide for it to make all that much difference

Its coming off though, another pound today, 17 st 4, my aim is to be at 15 by July next year when we go away for a week, well under four pounds a month so very possible, pound a week is nice and easy to remember, need to be 17.3 by next Tuesday.

Edited by J4CKO on Tuesday 27th September 09:28

[J4CKO]

I have some Creatine, do "users" find a benefit, been taking one measure a day for a few days so will see how I get on tonight at the gym, my understanding is that it gives you a boost in how heavy/how many reps you can do so you hit the muscles harder.

Am eating pretty well, if nothing else I feel so much better,

Breakfast, three scrambled eggs with a bit of cheese in

lunch, bowl of homemade veggie soup with 2/3rds of a cooked Chicken Breast in it, no bread.

Dinner, Chicken Crown, veg and new potatoes ( less spuds more veg nowadays)



My biggest thing I am learning is that meals need planning, I took yesterday a salad box, chicken, salad, bit of Cottage Cheese, two small boiled new potatoes, otherwise its buy a sandwich, bag of crisps and some sugary horror, wasnt a huge amount of food but wasnt hungry by tea time.

Not counting calories too much, just trying to keep a running total so I dont go under/over, finding if you eat more Protein, you just dont get hungry the same, the sandwich, crisps, chocolate lunch means at 5pm you are ravenous again I find. Seem to be averaging out at under 2000, dont think I can go much lower and do any kind of exercise, did 14 miles on the push bike communiting and a mile and a half walk with the dog.

Puddings and sweet stuff have gone, not missing them.

Not really drinking, might have a G and T at the weekend or a couple of glasses of red, nowhere near the volumes I was drinking, was getting a little out of hand, expect most of my spare is alcohol or what it leads to you eating.

[J4CKO]

RJB_666 said:

I always get a benefit from creatine. People expect huge increases in strength and size from it but that's just not realistic. I feel slight improvements with taking 1 scoop of 5g with my first 2 litres of water per day mixed with my BCAAs.

Last time I dieted right down my lowest calories were 2100 and I had no energy for anything! A few things I think people don't look into enough IMO are fats and fibre. I'd set fats at a miniumum of 25% of your calories personally. Good for hormone levels. Fibre I try and keep at around 40g per day.

Agree on the Fats, think a lot of us are conditioned into outdated advice on Fats, i.e. Fat = Bad and will kill us, kind of a 1980s ethos, we need fat in our diet, as I found out last year when my gallbladder decided to go on strike as I hadn't eaten enough fat.

Seem to have plenty of energy on 2000 or so, perhaps I am running on the flab round my middle a bit more ?

I had Ribeye steak the other night with a bit of cheese sauce, felt very unlike any kind of diet food but you still need to eat, it doesnt need to be purgatorial and hungry all the time, its a permanent thing not a week of famine and then back to stuffing my face.

[J4CKO]

didelydoo said:

I split 600g oats, 260g whey, 3 eggs & 500ml milk across my day- 3800cals, 439 carb/81 fat/352 protein.

This is my base every day, and I have a proper meal or two in the evening, which I don't track at the moment. I've got some creatine, which I've had for ages and I'll use if I remember (though it makes zero noticeable difference IMO), and fish oils/vit pills if I remember too.

That's about it.

The vast majority of sups do sweet FA.

Couldn't imagine consistently eating 5000 calories a day, I guess you must need it, is it having a super high BMR that is the key due to increased muscle or using it during training ?

I just cant imagine how much training I would need to do to burn 2000 cals a day even if I had a BMR of 3000 ?

Am guessing you dont put fat on though.

[J4CKO]

didelydoo said:

It's not as fun as you'd think to do consistently, I rarely feel the actual need to eat, more of a habit now.
Training isn't burning all the calories, but I just don't grow unless I eat a lot. Fat gain happens, but if I feel like I've gotten too fat, I'll have a low cal, zero carb day each week to cut some of it away. Waist size never lies- if your waist goes up, you're getting fat.

Other than growth, one of the main reason for upping my calories over a period of time was to increase my BMR, so when I come to cut, I'll not need to go super low cal, and should be able to cut on reasonable high cals. My last cut had me going far lower than I'd have liked, which was incredibly difficult to sustain.

Agree on the waist size not lying, my 38 inch waist pants were getting uncomfortable, half a stone and dont notice them cutting me in half now, belt wound in a notch so lost an inch or more round my gut.

I was finding they would be less tight over the week, then weekends would come, takeaway, load of beer, tight again monday morning then not as bad, but it is a slow upwards trend, a pound a month or less is all it needs to be and you outgrow your pants if you dont keep on track.

Need to get back into a 36 really.