Discussion
There seems to be a lot of hoo-ha about him returning to football. Now, I reckon rape is an absolutely hideous crime. My own view is being castrated would be lenient to perps, and if it ever happened to my daughter then god help me because I don't know what I'd do.
However the law of the land is to do your time, and then live your life when it's done. And forgive me if I am wrong, but the man has done his time.
Is football/sport some sort of unique case which lives outside the law, and one which morals apply? Should sportspeople be perfect role models? Because the hand wringers would have him picking up a P45 for the rest of his life.
However the law of the land is to do your time, and then live your life when it's done. And forgive me if I am wrong, but the man has done his time.
Is football/sport some sort of unique case which lives outside the law, and one which morals apply? Should sportspeople be perfect role models? Because the hand wringers would have him picking up a P45 for the rest of his life.
Lost soul said:
Not sticking up for him but it was not as if he dragged a woman off the streets and raped her , wasn't the girl so drunk she could not give consent ?
Indeed.http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/12/che...
Curious that the other guy was acquitted despite having sex with her.
Lost soul said:
I guess because she went hand in hand with him to the hotel ? dunno
Yeah I don't know either.Guardian Article said:
Both claimed that they had had sex with the woman but that it was consensual. However, the Crown Prosecution Service took a different view. It was the prosecution’s case that the woman was too drunk to consent to sex with either man. At the conclusion to the trial, McDonald was acquitted, while Evans was convicted of rape. The judge told him: “As the jury have found, she was in no condition to have sexual intercourse. When you arrived at the hotel, you must have realised that.”
Seems a bit of a contradiction to let one of them off given the above statement from the judge.Also, his current girlfriend's father (a millionaire himself) is bankrolling investigations to get the conviction struck off by way of appeal.
Thankyou4calling said:
But where do you draw the line?
Drunk driver ?
Domestic violence ?
Benefit cheat?
Jailed for excessive speed?
Non payment of council tax?
Well. My personal line would be between benefit cheat and domestic violence in that list.Drunk driver ?
Domestic violence ?
Benefit cheat?
Jailed for excessive speed?
Non payment of council tax?
I'm glad you didn't put cannibal or racist in the list however as I'd get in a kerfuffle
I am not excusing rape in any shape or form here however for me there seem to be inconsistencies in the case.
Agreed however the other guy who had sex with her was acquitted. Either she was incapable or she wasn't. I cannot see how one guy can be found innocent and the other guilty.
http://m.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/gene...
zeb said:
Evans seems to think its acceptable to have sex with an unconscious women whilst being filmed. I find it worrying if he cannot accept this.
Agreed however the other guy who had sex with her was acquitted. Either she was incapable or she wasn't. I cannot see how one guy can be found innocent and the other guilty.
zeb said:
I dont think I have missed the point but I respect your opinion all the same. I made the McCormack comparison to illustrate the point about him not accepting his wrongdoing. Its irrelevant whether he continues to protest his innocence, he was found guilty by jury (who, unlike us have seen the video evidence) and his appeal was rejected. We can continue to agree to disagree until the cows come home but he has not admitted his wrongdoing.
It looks like his case will be reviewed by the CCRC but not until 2017, as cases are prioritised for those who remain in custody. http://m.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/gene...
Interesting text in the case files, thanks for posting.
Case text said:
The complainant (the girl) had no recollection of anything which took place after 3am. That extended to the fact that she and McDonald entered the hotel at 4.15am. The night porter described her as "extremely drunk". That reinforced the Crown's case based on the evidence of witnesses and the CCTV footage before she had arrived at the hotel. While en route to the room the porter heard her say to McDonald "You're not going to leave me, are you?" They entered a bedroom in which various sexual acts took place and eventually they had sexual intercourse...
According to McDonald's evidence, in the hotel room sexual activity was initiated by the complainant. She gave every indication that she was enthusiastic and enjoying herself. He did not force her to do anything she did not wish...
When he (Ched) arrived at the room it was immediately apparent to him that McDonald and the complainant were engaged in enthusiastic consensual sex. When she was asked if the applicant could join in, the complainant clearly replied "Yes". McDonald stopped. The complainant asked the applicant to perform oral sex on her. He did so and then they had sexual intercourse. Throughout all the activities with him she was enthusiastic, wide awake and she consented to everything that happened.
I'm amazed he (and only he) was convicted on that basis tbh.According to McDonald's evidence, in the hotel room sexual activity was initiated by the complainant. She gave every indication that she was enthusiastic and enjoying herself. He did not force her to do anything she did not wish...
When he (Ched) arrived at the room it was immediately apparent to him that McDonald and the complainant were engaged in enthusiastic consensual sex. When she was asked if the applicant could join in, the complainant clearly replied "Yes". McDonald stopped. The complainant asked the applicant to perform oral sex on her. He did so and then they had sexual intercourse. Throughout all the activities with him she was enthusiastic, wide awake and she consented to everything that happened.
Looks like his case review by the CCRB is being fast tracked. Interesting.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/18/leg...
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/18/leg...
dirty boy said:
I find myself inexplicably defending this guy somehow, but the fact the girl never called him a rapist, who does he show remorse to? The police? The girl? Even though she's not complained?
What if
He was innocent, or he truly believes he's innocent. I'm pretty sure if i'd been stitched up for something I never did, I certainly wouldn't show remorse.
That's my sticking point in this.
I know a jury found him guilty, but I just don't see it in this case. He was found guilty on the basis of no evidence other than the statement of a girl who said she can't remember anything.
The fact they were so blasé about the whole arrest etc doesn't strike me as the actions of two guilty men trying to hide their innocence.
Of course he may well be as guilty as hell.
This aligns with my view.What if
He was innocent, or he truly believes he's innocent. I'm pretty sure if i'd been stitched up for something I never did, I certainly wouldn't show remorse.
That's my sticking point in this.
I know a jury found him guilty, but I just don't see it in this case. He was found guilty on the basis of no evidence other than the statement of a girl who said she can't remember anything.
The fact they were so blasé about the whole arrest etc doesn't strike me as the actions of two guilty men trying to hide their innocence.
Of course he may well be as guilty as hell.
ascayman said:
Re the martin Samuel article, so some of the 'facts' as reported on the website set up by his supporters aren't actually true then??
As far as I can tell all Martin Samuel does is take exception to, and draw meaning from, the phrase "I've got a bird". A text that was sent by McDonald.Nope. Not in the context of being a bit pissed up and sending quick text speak to a mate.
Edit: The case file even seems unclear on the exact wording:
During the taxi journey McDonald sent a text message to the applicant telling him that he had "got a bird" or words to that effect.
https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-che...
Not that it matters.
Edit: The case file even seems unclear on the exact wording:
During the taxi journey McDonald sent a text message to the applicant telling him that he had "got a bird" or words to that effect.
https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-che...
Not that it matters.
Edited by hornetrider on Wednesday 22 October 15:47
I've said it before but what makes me uncomfortable about the case is the acquittal of the other guy, and the judge in his summing up justifying Evans' conviction with words to the effect of 'she wasn't in a state to give consent'.
Either she was, or she wasn't. Can't have it both ways. I don't agree with 'implied consent' based on her walking back to the hotel with the other bloke either.
Frankly I think this all stems from them both leaving the room before she woke up.
Either she was, or she wasn't. Can't have it both ways. I don't agree with 'implied consent' based on her walking back to the hotel with the other bloke either.
Frankly I think this all stems from them both leaving the room before she woke up.
Challo said:
So Oldham get on average 4000 attendance per week and 20,000 have signed a petition about him joining their club? I wonder what % of those who signed also signed the Sheffield Utd one, and will sign every single petition??
Not really a true reflection of Oldham's fans.
I agree. Both petitions were started by the same London-based radical feminist who has a very large twitter presence.Not really a true reflection of Oldham's fans.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11324...
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