Telescopes for StarGazing?
Discussion
Soz for posting in here, couldn't find the "Telescopes" section? Anyway...
Father's 60th birthday is fast approaching (end of October) and as his brother has just bought him the electric guitar we were going to get him, the only other thing we can think of that he's into is looking at the stars.
He lives in darkest (literally) rural Suffolk, but is currently struggling with my Grandmother's old Nazi spotting 'scope from WWII. We'd love to get him something that's not only made for actually looking at the night sky, but will point towards certain interesting bits and perhaps even take photos?
I'm not sure what sort of budget is necessary for this sort of thing, but I think I can probably raise £300 easily from the siblings. Is that enough? If not, I could possibly stretch it by getting more people in, but it'll be a hassle.
So, telescope enthusiasts of PH - I call on your vast and hitherto untapped knowledge to assist me in getting the best thing possible for the money. Many thanks.
Father's 60th birthday is fast approaching (end of October) and as his brother has just bought him the electric guitar we were going to get him, the only other thing we can think of that he's into is looking at the stars.
He lives in darkest (literally) rural Suffolk, but is currently struggling with my Grandmother's old Nazi spotting 'scope from WWII. We'd love to get him something that's not only made for actually looking at the night sky, but will point towards certain interesting bits and perhaps even take photos?
I'm not sure what sort of budget is necessary for this sort of thing, but I think I can probably raise £300 easily from the siblings. Is that enough? If not, I could possibly stretch it by getting more people in, but it'll be a hassle.
So, telescope enthusiasts of PH - I call on your vast and hitherto untapped knowledge to assist me in getting the best thing possible for the money. Many thanks.
Moonhawk said:
£300 will get you a fairly decent scope for observing. Astrophotography (aside from perhaps the moon) is a different ballgame however.
If you want a "GoTo" telescope - there are things like the Meade ETX range that come in on budget. These are computerised and will take you various objects around the sky. You do compromise on size though as you are paying for the computer guidance (and size in telescopes is very important). An 80mm scope like the one below is quite small. Ideally you'll be wanting to look in the range 112mm (4 inch) or larger.
http://www.telescopehouse.com/acatalog/Meade-ETX80...
You could go for a non computerised scope on an equatorial mount (this is a type of mount that can be set up to track the earths rotation) - in which case you can go for larger optics which will show more objects in greater details (good if you have a dark sky site). You have a choice of several different kinds of telescope from Newtonian Reflectors or Achromatic refractors. The former are generally larger for the same budget because mirror telescopes are cheaper to make. Here are a couple of examples:
http://www.green-witch.com/astromaster-130-eq-with...
http://www.green-witch.com/skywatcher-evostar-120-...
Going even more basic on the mount means you can get an even larger scope. These are called Dobsonians - however you need to factor in portability, storage, setup etc when looking at telescopes in the 8 inch plus range - they can get quite heavy.
http://www.green-witch.com/skyliner-200p-8-1573-p....
Avoid buying a telescope based on magnification. Very high magnification can only be used on a few select objects (planets mainly) and cheaper telescopes often quote magnification that they generally aren't capable of. The general rule is that a telescope can only support up to 50x magnification per inch aperture (the size of the main lens/mirror). Any manufacturer saying their telescope can go (usefully) higher than this is telling porkies.
For many objects like nebulae, galaxies and star clusters - lower magnification and wide aperture are often a better combination.
It's probably a lot to take in as it's such a wide field. Take a look over the links I have provided and if you can narrow down the possibilities a bit - people can probably give more specific advice around specific scope types or accessories (which you may also want to factor in your budget - a small range of eyepieces should be a minimum - although some scopes do come with a couple).
There is also a forum called Stargazers Lounge - loads of knowledgeable people on there - perhaps register and ask some questions.
Many thanks - as I suspected, it's a bit of a minefield!If you want a "GoTo" telescope - there are things like the Meade ETX range that come in on budget. These are computerised and will take you various objects around the sky. You do compromise on size though as you are paying for the computer guidance (and size in telescopes is very important). An 80mm scope like the one below is quite small. Ideally you'll be wanting to look in the range 112mm (4 inch) or larger.
http://www.telescopehouse.com/acatalog/Meade-ETX80...
You could go for a non computerised scope on an equatorial mount (this is a type of mount that can be set up to track the earths rotation) - in which case you can go for larger optics which will show more objects in greater details (good if you have a dark sky site). You have a choice of several different kinds of telescope from Newtonian Reflectors or Achromatic refractors. The former are generally larger for the same budget because mirror telescopes are cheaper to make. Here are a couple of examples:
http://www.green-witch.com/astromaster-130-eq-with...
http://www.green-witch.com/skywatcher-evostar-120-...
Going even more basic on the mount means you can get an even larger scope. These are called Dobsonians - however you need to factor in portability, storage, setup etc when looking at telescopes in the 8 inch plus range - they can get quite heavy.
http://www.green-witch.com/skyliner-200p-8-1573-p....
Avoid buying a telescope based on magnification. Very high magnification can only be used on a few select objects (planets mainly) and cheaper telescopes often quote magnification that they generally aren't capable of. The general rule is that a telescope can only support up to 50x magnification per inch aperture (the size of the main lens/mirror). Any manufacturer saying their telescope can go (usefully) higher than this is telling porkies.
For many objects like nebulae, galaxies and star clusters - lower magnification and wide aperture are often a better combination.
It's probably a lot to take in as it's such a wide field. Take a look over the links I have provided and if you can narrow down the possibilities a bit - people can probably give more specific advice around specific scope types or accessories (which you may also want to factor in your budget - a small range of eyepieces should be a minimum - although some scopes do come with a couple).
There is also a forum called Stargazers Lounge - loads of knowledgeable people on there - perhaps register and ask some questions.
If photography isn't available at this price point, that's not a massive problem. I know he'd love a computerised mount that could point the telescope at various things - he's obsessed with his iPad that can approximate the same sort of thing.
I didn't factor in eyepieces though - do you have to have different ones like on a camera if you have poor eyesight? I'm the only person in my entire family who doesn't have to wear glasses, so forget about these sorts of things!
GTIR said:
As apposed to telescopes for other things?
As I stated in the OP - he has one at the moment that was designed for spotting Germans. Also, I've used one for looking at birds.And pirates have them. And sniper rifle operators.
Moonhawk said:
HereBeMonsters said:
Many thanks - as I suspected, it's a bit of a minefield!
If photography isn't available at this price point, that's not a massive problem. I know he'd love a computerised mount that could point the telescope at various things - he's obsessed with his iPad that can approximate the same sort of thing.
I didn't factor in eyepieces though - do you have to have different ones like on a camera if you have poor eyesight? I'm the only person in my entire family who doesn't have to wear glasses, so forget about these sorts of things!
Whilst go-to does sound great in principle - they aren't infallible. My setup cost thousands - but the go to function is still a little hit and miss - and required quite a lot of preparation.If photography isn't available at this price point, that's not a massive problem. I know he'd love a computerised mount that could point the telescope at various things - he's obsessed with his iPad that can approximate the same sort of thing.
I didn't factor in eyepieces though - do you have to have different ones like on a camera if you have poor eyesight? I'm the only person in my entire family who doesn't have to wear glasses, so forget about these sorts of things!
Invariably it puts the object i'm looking for out of the field of view unless I have a very low magnification eyepiece - and that means you still need to know what to look for and how to look for it (which generally comes with experience of hunting using a manual scope).
Personally - I think a larger manual scope together with some star charts and a section of eyepieces would be a better option. There is a certain thrill that comes from hunting for and finding an object - and you learn along the way. There is also the opportunity to spot other interesting things whilst searching for your object (coloured double stars, open clusters etc) that may be overlooked by going to the same objects night after night just because they are in the telescope's database.
If you do decide to go down the Go-to route - you will be looking at quite a small scope which will limit the objects available to view to a few dozen anyway - even though the scope will boast "thousands of objects" in its database.
IMO a 5-6 inch Newtonian on an equatorial mount plus a few eyepieces would be my default starter scope at the £300 price point.
Could you clarify one point though - what exactly do extra eyepieces do? Does it not come with one?
The chap has come back to me with some options, both slightly over budget of course!
Trying to decide between:
http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatc...
and
http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatc...
Not sure what the difference is between a Dobsonian or a Reflector, both around the same price, but the chap reckoned the reflector is more upgradable, and comes on a better mount?
ETA: Also, I have no idea what a "Barlow" is. Looks to be like a Tele-converter on a camera?
Trying to decide between:
http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatc...
and
http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatc...
Not sure what the difference is between a Dobsonian or a Reflector, both around the same price, but the chap reckoned the reflector is more upgradable, and comes on a better mount?
ETA: Also, I have no idea what a "Barlow" is. Looks to be like a Tele-converter on a camera?
Edited by HereBeMonsters on Thursday 25th September 11:19
Oh right, so the optics are the same, it's just the mount?
I think our current plan is just to spend as much as our budget will allow on the basic telescope, then he can add an equatorial mount, more eyepieces, converters and a go-to thingy on later if he wants to.
Gives us something to buy him for future birthdays as well!
As I said before, weight etc. isn't an issue as the furthest he will be going is bottom of the garden - about 500 yards. Something upgradeable is what we're after, and if it's got the ability to attach an SLR camera, then that'd be great.
I think our current plan is just to spend as much as our budget will allow on the basic telescope, then he can add an equatorial mount, more eyepieces, converters and a go-to thingy on later if he wants to.
Gives us something to buy him for future birthdays as well!
As I said before, weight etc. isn't an issue as the furthest he will be going is bottom of the garden - about 500 yards. Something upgradeable is what we're after, and if it's got the ability to attach an SLR camera, then that'd be great.
Moonhawk said:
HereBeMonsters said:
Oh right, so the optics are the same, it's just the mount?
I think our current plan is just to spend as much as our budget will allow on the basic telescope, then he can add an equatorial mount, more eyepieces, converters and a go-to thingy on later if he wants to.
Not quite. I think our current plan is just to spend as much as our budget will allow on the basic telescope, then he can add an equatorial mount, more eyepieces, converters and a go-to thingy on later if he wants to.
Although the optics themselves may be similar - the construction of the telescope would differ significantly
It would be quite difficult to upgrade a dobsonian telecope to utilise an equatorial mount. Things like go-to are usually integrated into the mount - and not really available as an "upgrade" option. If you want a go-to scope - you pretty much have to buy one off the bat.
ks. I feel like I'm back at square one now.I would say, on balance, he'd probably be more interested in taking photos of stuff (including the moon) than having a computer point out stuff in the sky for him. I think trying to find things with charts and/or an iPad app would be more fun than just typing it in to a little box?
So, given that, a large refractor that can be upgraded to an equatorial mount in future? Or best to get a smaller one with the mount now?
Moonhawk said:
Out of the two options you have been suggested by FLO, personally i'd go with the 200mm newtonian over the Dob.
It's already on an equatorial mount.
Thanks - that's the one I'm leaning towards now.It's already on an equatorial mount.
It won't be too much will it? I mean, we'll still be able to see the Moon, and pick up planets etc.? It's not just for finding nebulae or whatever?
OK, think I'm decided on this one then:
http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatc...
To be able to see Jupiter and Saturn like that would be amazing, and I'm sure my six month old son will love visiting his Grandad if he gets to see stuff like that!
http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatc...
To be able to see Jupiter and Saturn like that would be amazing, and I'm sure my six month old son will love visiting his Grandad if he gets to see stuff like that!
OK, this has put the cat amongst the pigeons. Local camera shop has this:
114mm telescope, equatorial mount with motor, two eyepieces and a Barlow thingy. £69. All looks in good nick, all bits there. And I can take it back within 14 days if it's not the right thing.
I know it obviously won't be as good as the 200mm one, but for the money...what do we think?
114mm telescope, equatorial mount with motor, two eyepieces and a Barlow thingy. £69. All looks in good nick, all bits there. And I can take it back within 14 days if it's not the right thing.
I know it obviously won't be as good as the 200mm one, but for the money...what do we think?
ash73 said:
catadioptric = combined mirror and lens at the base of the eyepiece tube. I think the lens is meant to correct for the shortcomings of the mirror but the optics won't be great. Why set a budget of £300-400 and then buy some tat like that?
Brand new it was around £300. Getting it second hand means an epic saving so we can put the rest of the budget towards something else he might like, or some good accessories for this. Are they really that bad?
Here's the birthday boy opening his present this morning. It's bloody massive! 
He's now pricing up some sort of observatory/shed to put in the garden for it...
Not had dark yet to give it a proper go, but we can tell who installed the chimney stack on the house across the green by the fingerprints left on it.
So yes, thanks for everyone's help - I'm confident the correct choice has been made, he's absolutely over the moon (haha!) with it!
One thing we can't work out is the camera connection. How does one attach a camera to it? It's not in the instructions, despite it being advertised as "Direct SLR Camera Connection".
He's now pricing up some sort of observatory/shed to put in the garden for it...Not had dark yet to give it a proper go, but we can tell who installed the chimney stack on the house across the green by the fingerprints left on it.
So yes, thanks for everyone's help - I'm confident the correct choice has been made, he's absolutely over the moon (haha!) with it!
One thing we can't work out is the camera connection. How does one attach a camera to it? It's not in the instructions, despite it being advertised as "Direct SLR Camera Connection".
Edited by HereBeMonsters on Saturday 1st November 13:49
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