A load of 4x4 ex army truck questions.
Discussion
I think i asked a similar question when commercial break was first introduced to PH. But i now have quite a few questions, so here goes.
I work for my families business which involves regularly transporting goods into and out of muddy fields (agricultural shows and country fairs). Therefore man logic dictates i need a 4x4 truck.
Currently we have a mwb transit van on lease, which although good, we could really do with living accomodation, as camping in tents is s
t and Travel Lodges get very expensive very quickly.
This therefore means we need extra weight allowance and with that comes traction issues.
I have been bored the last week and have been messing around with Google Sketchup and trucktrader and the like.
There are a few options i have come up with.
1) Land Rover Defender 130 chassis cab (with box body) towing a caravan.
Positives. Newer Vehicle. Possibly better on fuel? Possibly cheaper running costs. Much comfier on road.
Negatives. 2.2 liter defender could be gutless on faster roads with circa 5.5 ton train weight, and therefore probably hugely thirsty. The load height of the box body. Very few second hand which would probably mean leasing or buying a new one which will work out costly. Will still require an operators licence and tachograph.
2) Ex Army DAF 45 with caravan body towing a car sized box trailer.
(sorry for the second image which uses a Eurocargo 4x4)
Positives. Cheap purchase price. Will retain most of its value. Higher weight capacity if the business needs to transport more in the future. Box trailer with lower floor means much easier access.
Negatives. I have very little idea what the running costs of such a thing are like.
Therefore, what sort of costs are involved in running an ex army truck?
Tyres, mpg, servicing and testing, insurance, tax, consumables, operators licence, tachograph and reliability (and of course all the added costs that i havnt considered)
Finally, is it possible to mount a caravan onto the chassis of a lorry? I have never seen a naked chassis of a lorry before, nor have i inspected a caravan chassis. Is it possible to remove the caravan's axle and bolt the caravan onto the lorry?
Thank you for reading and i really hope you can make some suggestions and cure my confusion.
(ps... i forgot to add, what would a 150hp 20 year old permenant 4x4 DAF be like in modern traffic conditions? Would i be expecting too much to expect it to sit at 50 mph?
I work for my families business which involves regularly transporting goods into and out of muddy fields (agricultural shows and country fairs). Therefore man logic dictates i need a 4x4 truck.
Currently we have a mwb transit van on lease, which although good, we could really do with living accomodation, as camping in tents is s
t and Travel Lodges get very expensive very quickly.This therefore means we need extra weight allowance and with that comes traction issues.
I have been bored the last week and have been messing around with Google Sketchup and trucktrader and the like.
There are a few options i have come up with.
1) Land Rover Defender 130 chassis cab (with box body) towing a caravan.
Positives. Newer Vehicle. Possibly better on fuel? Possibly cheaper running costs. Much comfier on road.
Negatives. 2.2 liter defender could be gutless on faster roads with circa 5.5 ton train weight, and therefore probably hugely thirsty. The load height of the box body. Very few second hand which would probably mean leasing or buying a new one which will work out costly. Will still require an operators licence and tachograph.
2) Ex Army DAF 45 with caravan body towing a car sized box trailer.
(sorry for the second image which uses a Eurocargo 4x4)
Positives. Cheap purchase price. Will retain most of its value. Higher weight capacity if the business needs to transport more in the future. Box trailer with lower floor means much easier access.
Negatives. I have very little idea what the running costs of such a thing are like.
Therefore, what sort of costs are involved in running an ex army truck?
Tyres, mpg, servicing and testing, insurance, tax, consumables, operators licence, tachograph and reliability (and of course all the added costs that i havnt considered)
Finally, is it possible to mount a caravan onto the chassis of a lorry? I have never seen a naked chassis of a lorry before, nor have i inspected a caravan chassis. Is it possible to remove the caravan's axle and bolt the caravan onto the lorry?
Thank you for reading and i really hope you can make some suggestions and cure my confusion.
(ps... i forgot to add, what would a 150hp 20 year old permenant 4x4 DAF be like in modern traffic conditions? Would i be expecting too much to expect it to sit at 50 mph?
Edited by Benbay001 on Sunday 24th March 16:56
Super Slo Mo said:
If you're reasonably handy with the spanners/welder, nothing. The caravan chassis rails may or may not line up with the truck chassis, but a bit of ingenuity and some bits of angle iron should solve that little problem.
In terms of what it's like on the road, it's probably best to think in truck terms, not car terms. So that means fairly leisurely acceleration, and possibly slow progress on hills. However, it's not that underpowered, I have fond (not really) memories of driving Volvo FL6 18 tonners on the multi-drop circuit, a whopping 180 bhp to propel 18 tonnes of behemoth. The M62 heading from Manchester to Leeds saw speeds of 22-23 mph on the steepest parts.
As long as you don't expect it to be fast, you'll be fine. 150 bhp should drag 7.5 tonnes plus around without too much issue. Years ago I had a 12 tonner with the same power output. It was ok, but did lose speed on the hills, so I needed to plan ahead, no point attempting to overtake an artic if there was a hill looming, for instance, as he'd just stroll up it, while I'd be losing ground in the middle lane looking stupid.
Speed wasnt so much my concern, more the wallowy handling of a jacked up lorry running on tall semi off road biased tyres. In terms of what it's like on the road, it's probably best to think in truck terms, not car terms. So that means fairly leisurely acceleration, and possibly slow progress on hills. However, it's not that underpowered, I have fond (not really) memories of driving Volvo FL6 18 tonners on the multi-drop circuit, a whopping 180 bhp to propel 18 tonnes of behemoth. The M62 heading from Manchester to Leeds saw speeds of 22-23 mph on the steepest parts.
As long as you don't expect it to be fast, you'll be fine. 150 bhp should drag 7.5 tonnes plus around without too much issue. Years ago I had a 12 tonner with the same power output. It was ok, but did lose speed on the hills, so I needed to plan ahead, no point attempting to overtake an artic if there was a hill looming, for instance, as he'd just stroll up it, while I'd be losing ground in the middle lane looking stupid.
Super Slo Mo said:
I think the OP is expecting it to need to be on an O'Licence, as he's going to be towing a trailer for commercial purposes.
Correct. I am fully aware that i will need an O licence.I also aware i need category c + e on my licence as the trailer will be 3.5 ton aswell.
How costly is tax / insurance / maintaince on something like this?
For it to make a good business case it would need similar or lower running costs than a defender.
Chrisgr31 said:
Always a danger in posting in a topic on a subject you know nothing about, but never mind.
Do some of the horse boxes have sleeping accommodation and therefore would you be better with one of these and forget the towing? Mind you not sure how they cope with mud!
They do, but A) they are worth mega money for what you get B) i dislike horses with every ounce of my body.Do some of the horse boxes have sleeping accommodation and therefore would you be better with one of these and forget the towing? Mind you not sure how they cope with mud!
C) they get very very stuck.
pja said:
I had the displeasure of driving an Iveco 4x4 a few months back, it was a 2002 with a crane and dropside, I reckon it was the worst truck I've ever driven! And I've driven a few Ivecos 
Top speed was around 45mph with the engine screaming its conkers off! While that was going on the wheel wobble was enough to shake your teeth loose
Then there was the brakes! Drum I believe and badly adjusted, the first time I touched them (lightly) the truck tried to leap in the hedge, the next time when I was a bit more prepared it took a liking for the oncoming traffic!
I know this was a badly maintained example but the thought of putting a weight on the back and towing with it makes me shudder!
This is what worried me Top speed was around 45mph with the engine screaming its conkers off! While that was going on the wheel wobble was enough to shake your teeth loose
Then there was the brakes! Drum I believe and badly adjusted, the first time I touched them (lightly) the truck tried to leap in the hedge, the next time when I was a bit more prepared it took a liking for the oncoming traffic!
I know this was a badly maintained example but the thought of putting a weight on the back and towing with it makes me shudder!
Jimbo. said:
Ex-military.
Unstoppable.
Unbreakable.
Big box already fitted.
http://www.russianmilitary.co.uk/details.php?heade...
If only i was looking to invade another country Unstoppable.
Unbreakable.
Big box already fitted.
http://www.russianmilitary.co.uk/details.php?heade...
s p a c e m a n said:
Whats your budget? http://www.milweb.net/webverts/66823/
Thats almost perfect. Bar the age. I wont be looking to buy until December this year. I get from December until April with nothing to do. Plenty of time to get my licence, buy a truck, and get it kitted out.iguana said:
Sprinter 4x4 3.5t van, & convert to camper & tow the trailer would be my preference. Can get higher capacity than 3.5t van but train weights usually the same 6.3 or 7t on sprinters ive had.
Second hand Sprinters seem to be rusted out, the new ones seem to have a half cooked awd system that uses braking in the place of a center locking diff. The only decent 3.5 tonners are the Defender, Mitsubishi Canter 4x4 and the Iveco Daily 4x4. The Canter has the same problems as the Defender, and the Daily is massively out of budget at £55k, just for a chassis cab.
The initial price of a Daf 45 is about £8k. Another £8k for a caravan £3k for a box trailer, and another £3k for unexpected issues. Looks like great value comparatively.
Being fairly un mechanically minded, would it be uneconomical to change the high range ratio?
Edited by Benbay001 on Monday 25th March 00:11
Incorrigible said:
was under the impression that 4x4s (under 3.5 ton) were exempt from o-licence requirements. Look up dual purpose vehicles on the VOSA website
If it's for hire or reward then you'll need a tacho though
So fwiw imho etc I would consider the landy
The O licence bit was for the Ex Army truck.If it's for hire or reward then you'll need a tacho though
So fwiw imho etc I would consider the landy
Graham said:
the dafs came in just as I was leaving the army so I dont have have much experience with them I drove a long way in bedford/awd 4x4 mj's though very basic but very easy to drive I took my hgv test in one !!!
the old bar grip tyres were a bit scarey if it was icey but otherwise ok. a 60mph average is doable. I managed 63mph average on the way back from ft william to notts in a very overloaded one once...
In theory a daf should be better as its a later truck, but i think its a bit to civvyfied for the military and they broke lots.. they dont like being supend towed from the front either as the axles used to drop out on the early ones !!!
being more of a civvy truck would be an advantage and more comfey that an mj.
I always liked the bedford TM's the 8 ton 4x4 but they seem to go for loads on the ex military sales. more power assistance and electronics than the mj. iirs the tyres were only rates to about 50mph on the tm though... as I was told after thrashing one around bovvy then hammering back up the motorway at 60!! Oh yes and the military light switch had burned out, so all the dash lights were working but nothing on the exterior of the truck.. which I also discovered when we got back to base
lol
When you say 60 is "doable" do you mean "doable" or "bare-able"? the old bar grip tyres were a bit scarey if it was icey but otherwise ok. a 60mph average is doable. I managed 63mph average on the way back from ft william to notts in a very overloaded one once...
In theory a daf should be better as its a later truck, but i think its a bit to civvyfied for the military and they broke lots.. they dont like being supend towed from the front either as the axles used to drop out on the early ones !!!
being more of a civvy truck would be an advantage and more comfey that an mj.
I always liked the bedford TM's the 8 ton 4x4 but they seem to go for loads on the ex military sales. more power assistance and electronics than the mj. iirs the tyres were only rates to about 50mph on the tm though... as I was told after thrashing one around bovvy then hammering back up the motorway at 60!! Oh yes and the military light switch had burned out, so all the dash lights were working but nothing on the exterior of the truck.. which I also discovered when we got back to base
lol
From my research TMs are majorly unreliable.
Any idea what rpm either the daf or the bedford would be doing at say... 50 mph?
Cfnteabag said:
I am an army mechanic and at my last unit we had just got rid of our fleet of data while I was there but I did quite a lot of work on them while they were in service. They will achieve 60 if empty but it is blooming noisy, they are much happier at around 50, still noisy but bare able. The seats would need changing as they are not very comfortable and are made with the cheapest possible vinyl. The cabs can have quite a rust problem, especially in the door shuts. The hi-lo lever and diff lock mechanism siezes and can be a pig to free off. They are not as good off road as the older Bedfords but will cope perfectly with what you are after. Don't even bother going for a winch equipped one as the winches were all banned from use as they twisted the chassis. Engines are bog simple have no idea what getting spares is like as we didn't have to worry about that sort of thing! Can be very very smoky which may cause problems with civvie tests?
Hope that helps
Adam
It does! thank youHope that helps
Adam
Upatdawn said:
Thats very nice! (not being in a position to buy aside)But i really want a lorrySteve_W said:
I know, saw it last thing last night in the classifieds. Woke up this morning to a "You know you want to" about it. £28k though! Seems a bit steep compared to my idea to bolt a caravan to the chassis.
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