ChipsAway reviews on the forums
Discussion
Edited To Add:
This thread is getting on for 4 years old, but it's clearly still informing customers doing their research before choosing a repair provider - which is great.
While I'm still happy that it represents good advice, it's also advice very much from its time. Things have moved on a long way from some of the issues discussed.
I had a customer ring me today to ask questions about how we were going to repair his car, clearly prompted by this thread. First of all, he knew he was talking to a PH'er ChipsAway repairer, but he *didn't* realise he was talking to the OP of this thread. When I first wrote this, I created the "ChipsAway Guy" account so there was no obvious link to me or the business I'm running to ensure we didn't look like we were advertising on the sly (although after a few requests later on in the thread I did 'fess up to who I am
). My more usual PH username is "Anatol", and pretty much everyone knows by now what business I'm in; I can be found hanging around in Bodywork & Detailing, or the Elise/Exige forum (or sticking my oar in on pretty much any thread where SMART repair is discussed )
Secondly, the issue the customer was most worried about is simply not relevant any more. So while I'm not going to delete any of the original content, this addendum should be read along with it to bring it up to date (as at Jan 2010).
All ChipsAway repairs are now painted with a waterborne basecoat and a two-component lacquer (incidentally this is also true of almost all factory finishes and aftermarket refinishing businesses). The old question of one-pack vs 2-pack is redundant - by EU law, these paint systems have been phased out. There are no repairers in the ChipsAway network who have not converted to the new paint system. Those very few that were resistant to the idea had their license to operate under the ChipsAway brand terminated.
Repairs are never done with airbrushes any more. All repairers are trained with Iwata sprayguns (and while diminiutive, the LPH-80 is a fantastic tool - it is my go-to gun for almost any repair, and IMHO the best tool for any repair I have come across for SMART-sized repairs).
Issues about consistency in skill level across the network, while they'll never be completely resolved, are being addressed - every ChipsAway repairer is now required to complete assessment repairs at the end of their initial training, a few months after they launch their business, and then at regular intervals (of about 18 months). These repairs are back at our central training centre, so involve the relevant business being closed down for a day or two.
That's quite a commitment in lost turnover to checking standards (with multiple painters in my business, shutting up shop for check repairs has a four-figure bill, but it's absolutely worth it - ensuring a level of competence for the core repairs we do across the network carries a lot of weight). At the time of writing, I don't believe any other repair network makes a similar requirement of its operators.
So, please bear these developments in mind. If a customer has rung *me* up to quiz me about what I said in the original post, it's probably happened a fair bit to my colleagues across the network, and I apologise to you all for that! Hopefully this will mean we're not grilled on out of date issues any more.
Thanks all,
Anatol (aka The ChipsAway Guy).
The OP:
I’ve recently joined the site, and just did a forum search looking for members comments on ChipsAway – since that’s what I do for a living.
There’s been quite a lot said – including some very sweeping statements about what can and can’t be done by ChipsAway operators, and the quality and longevity of their work.
Given that I have an insider’s perspective, and also that since the ChipsAway system is used for hundreds of thousands of repairs yearly, some actual facts on it might be of interest to the PH community, I thought I’d post a bit about it. This isn’t an advert for my business – there’ll be no ‘see my website at:’ or similar snuck in.
Each ChipsAway operation is its own business, with no legal links whatsoever to any other, just a licensing contract with ChipsAway International. That contract requires them to use the ChipsAway paint systems (only), which are not available to anyone else.
Essentially, that is the only common ground between the ChipsAway franchises. Saying “Do not use, because…” is roughly equivalent to saying “Do not use any bodyshop that uses the ICI paint system, because I had a bad experience with service or quality with one once…”
Some ChipsAway operations will be applying paint with a £15 artist’s airbrush (supplied at training). Others will be using £3-400 DeVilbiss Sri’s or Iwata W-100’s. Some will touch in chips with a brush, others will lay down sprayed colour and then buff off overspray. Assuming that how one does a repair is how they all do is simply wrong.
ChipsAway train their operators with a one pack paint and lacquer system. It’s a good training system, as it is quick to apply and extremely forgiving – if there are any finish problems it can be overcoated immediately. It’s very popular with garages, as a repair can be done very fast and cheaply, and if the finish fails after a couple of years once the car has been sold, it will be well out of any bodywork warranty they offered (if indeed they offered any).
After a minimum period of experience with the one pack system, ChipsAway franchises can be trained in and buy (at quite some cost) a two-pack paint and lacquer system. This cannot be overcoated in the same way, and so is not suitable for the inexperienced. Once cured however, it has similar longevity to any two-pack (ie bodyshop) paint system, is not attacked by solvents, etc etc.
Some ChipsAway operators never proceed to the two pack, particularly if most of their work is for the trade. Others, once they have it, bin the one pack completely, because most of their work is for enthusiasts in the retail sector, and the two pack offers a better, longer-lasting finish.
Blanket comments about ChipsAway repair longevity/quality don't take account of this difference.
Some ChipsAway operators are essentially unqualified, with no paintwork experience beyond 10 days training from ChipsAway, and an attitude to customer service that (at least reading some of the bad stories that have been posted here) seems to be what they can get away with without losing their licence. At least one ChipsAway business is run by an Oxbridge graduate, and a DeVilbiss qualified paint sprayer with over 10 years experience, and has got their guarantee and customer charter OFT-approved. There is a whole spectrum of experience, professionalism and commitment to quality.
The only thing that is really relevant are reviews of a particular operation – and I’m pleased to see that there are quite a few of those here, and mostly very positive – it’s the punters who were disappointed that have recommended “Don’t use any ChipsAway business” and those who were thrilled who’ve said “X near me did a great job.”
The ChipsAway system isn’t designed for all sorts of repairs. There’s no panel-beating involved, and the licence contract forbids full paintwork repairs to bonnets and roofs, due to the inherent limitations of a system designed around not having access to a full workshop with gantries and the facility to remove panels. Some operators will offer these repairs regardless. How sensible it is to choose to contract with a repairer who has a rather cavalier attitude to the obligations in a contract they’ve already signed up to is an open question.
If anyone has any questions about ChipsAway repairs, please ask me. Unless you’re one of the very few in the UK (less than 0.1%) who fall within my business area, I’ve absolutely no interest in whether or not you choose to go with ChipsAway (and if you are in my area, I’ll tell you before I answer the question). It’s an established business network, with a degree of after-sales backup that’s pretty rare outside of main dealerships in the automotive sector, and my personal opinion is that, when used professionally, the paint system is not only more than high enough quality to satisfy the enthusiast, but when appropriate, actually superior to the ‘traditional’ body shop methods of painting out large areas to disguise a repair.
Apologies for the long post, but there has been a lot said on the forums about ChipsAway as a single entity that is at best misleading (and at worst libellous!).
It really is a case that your mileage may vary.
Cheers, and glad to be part of this community,
The ChipsAway Guy.
This thread is getting on for 4 years old, but it's clearly still informing customers doing their research before choosing a repair provider - which is great.
While I'm still happy that it represents good advice, it's also advice very much from its time. Things have moved on a long way from some of the issues discussed.
I had a customer ring me today to ask questions about how we were going to repair his car, clearly prompted by this thread. First of all, he knew he was talking to a PH'er ChipsAway repairer, but he *didn't* realise he was talking to the OP of this thread. When I first wrote this, I created the "ChipsAway Guy" account so there was no obvious link to me or the business I'm running to ensure we didn't look like we were advertising on the sly (although after a few requests later on in the thread I did 'fess up to who I am
). My more usual PH username is "Anatol", and pretty much everyone knows by now what business I'm in; I can be found hanging around in Bodywork & Detailing, or the Elise/Exige forum (or sticking my oar in on pretty much any thread where SMART repair is discussed ) Secondly, the issue the customer was most worried about is simply not relevant any more. So while I'm not going to delete any of the original content, this addendum should be read along with it to bring it up to date (as at Jan 2010).
All ChipsAway repairs are now painted with a waterborne basecoat and a two-component lacquer (incidentally this is also true of almost all factory finishes and aftermarket refinishing businesses). The old question of one-pack vs 2-pack is redundant - by EU law, these paint systems have been phased out. There are no repairers in the ChipsAway network who have not converted to the new paint system. Those very few that were resistant to the idea had their license to operate under the ChipsAway brand terminated.
Repairs are never done with airbrushes any more. All repairers are trained with Iwata sprayguns (and while diminiutive, the LPH-80 is a fantastic tool - it is my go-to gun for almost any repair, and IMHO the best tool for any repair I have come across for SMART-sized repairs).
Issues about consistency in skill level across the network, while they'll never be completely resolved, are being addressed - every ChipsAway repairer is now required to complete assessment repairs at the end of their initial training, a few months after they launch their business, and then at regular intervals (of about 18 months). These repairs are back at our central training centre, so involve the relevant business being closed down for a day or two.
That's quite a commitment in lost turnover to checking standards (with multiple painters in my business, shutting up shop for check repairs has a four-figure bill, but it's absolutely worth it - ensuring a level of competence for the core repairs we do across the network carries a lot of weight). At the time of writing, I don't believe any other repair network makes a similar requirement of its operators.
So, please bear these developments in mind. If a customer has rung *me* up to quiz me about what I said in the original post, it's probably happened a fair bit to my colleagues across the network, and I apologise to you all for that! Hopefully this will mean we're not grilled on out of date issues any more.
Thanks all,
Anatol (aka The ChipsAway Guy).
The OP:
I’ve recently joined the site, and just did a forum search looking for members comments on ChipsAway – since that’s what I do for a living.
There’s been quite a lot said – including some very sweeping statements about what can and can’t be done by ChipsAway operators, and the quality and longevity of their work.
Given that I have an insider’s perspective, and also that since the ChipsAway system is used for hundreds of thousands of repairs yearly, some actual facts on it might be of interest to the PH community, I thought I’d post a bit about it. This isn’t an advert for my business – there’ll be no ‘see my website at:’ or similar snuck in.
Each ChipsAway operation is its own business, with no legal links whatsoever to any other, just a licensing contract with ChipsAway International. That contract requires them to use the ChipsAway paint systems (only), which are not available to anyone else.
Essentially, that is the only common ground between the ChipsAway franchises. Saying “Do not use, because…” is roughly equivalent to saying “Do not use any bodyshop that uses the ICI paint system, because I had a bad experience with service or quality with one once…”
Some ChipsAway operations will be applying paint with a £15 artist’s airbrush (supplied at training). Others will be using £3-400 DeVilbiss Sri’s or Iwata W-100’s. Some will touch in chips with a brush, others will lay down sprayed colour and then buff off overspray. Assuming that how one does a repair is how they all do is simply wrong.
ChipsAway train their operators with a one pack paint and lacquer system. It’s a good training system, as it is quick to apply and extremely forgiving – if there are any finish problems it can be overcoated immediately. It’s very popular with garages, as a repair can be done very fast and cheaply, and if the finish fails after a couple of years once the car has been sold, it will be well out of any bodywork warranty they offered (if indeed they offered any).
After a minimum period of experience with the one pack system, ChipsAway franchises can be trained in and buy (at quite some cost) a two-pack paint and lacquer system. This cannot be overcoated in the same way, and so is not suitable for the inexperienced. Once cured however, it has similar longevity to any two-pack (ie bodyshop) paint system, is not attacked by solvents, etc etc.
Some ChipsAway operators never proceed to the two pack, particularly if most of their work is for the trade. Others, once they have it, bin the one pack completely, because most of their work is for enthusiasts in the retail sector, and the two pack offers a better, longer-lasting finish.
Blanket comments about ChipsAway repair longevity/quality don't take account of this difference.
Some ChipsAway operators are essentially unqualified, with no paintwork experience beyond 10 days training from ChipsAway, and an attitude to customer service that (at least reading some of the bad stories that have been posted here) seems to be what they can get away with without losing their licence. At least one ChipsAway business is run by an Oxbridge graduate, and a DeVilbiss qualified paint sprayer with over 10 years experience, and has got their guarantee and customer charter OFT-approved. There is a whole spectrum of experience, professionalism and commitment to quality.
The only thing that is really relevant are reviews of a particular operation – and I’m pleased to see that there are quite a few of those here, and mostly very positive – it’s the punters who were disappointed that have recommended “Don’t use any ChipsAway business” and those who were thrilled who’ve said “X near me did a great job.”
The ChipsAway system isn’t designed for all sorts of repairs. There’s no panel-beating involved, and the licence contract forbids full paintwork repairs to bonnets and roofs, due to the inherent limitations of a system designed around not having access to a full workshop with gantries and the facility to remove panels. Some operators will offer these repairs regardless. How sensible it is to choose to contract with a repairer who has a rather cavalier attitude to the obligations in a contract they’ve already signed up to is an open question.
If anyone has any questions about ChipsAway repairs, please ask me. Unless you’re one of the very few in the UK (less than 0.1%) who fall within my business area, I’ve absolutely no interest in whether or not you choose to go with ChipsAway (and if you are in my area, I’ll tell you before I answer the question). It’s an established business network, with a degree of after-sales backup that’s pretty rare outside of main dealerships in the automotive sector, and my personal opinion is that, when used professionally, the paint system is not only more than high enough quality to satisfy the enthusiast, but when appropriate, actually superior to the ‘traditional’ body shop methods of painting out large areas to disguise a repair.
Apologies for the long post, but there has been a lot said on the forums about ChipsAway as a single entity that is at best misleading (and at worst libellous!).
It really is a case that your mileage may vary.
Cheers, and glad to be part of this community,
The ChipsAway Guy.
Edited by ChipsAway Guy on Wednesday 20th January 16:45
Whew! Right, dealing with these in turn:
James, your keyed bonnet - I'd suggest a bodyshop repair. The darker a paint is, and the more horizontal a panel is, the less forgiving they are for lacquer edges blending into an original finish. A black bonnet is therefore about the worst possible combination. An edge-to-edge respray would therefore be your best option, and to be done properly, that would require its removal from the car. Not a mobile repair. As Greg says, it isn't necessarily hugely expensive - particularly with a good independent local sprayshop.
BliarOut - the best ways to find out the good from the bad are to get some reviews from punters who've used the particular sprayer you're considering, and to sound them out a bit yourself. It's pretty easy with an enquiring phone call to get an idea of whether your guy is out to treat you solely as a profit source, or if he/she genuinely loves restoring the finish on cars. The best will keep on giving you tips and advice on what to do next when they've already told you that the repair in question isn't suitable for them to do! Asking for the details of a couple of previous customers for testimonials is always an option too - if they get shirty, that's a good sign as regards their professionalism.
JonRB - I'm not sure I agree that that's 'the problem with ChipsAway' - that you're in the dark about quality until you've tried them. That's true of pretty much every paint repairer, so it's more that ChipsAway are no different, rather than it being a particular problem with them. The big plus of ChipsAway over your local independent smart repairer or spray shop is that the franchisor and network provide after sales support if there's a problem. In extreme circumstances, ChipsAway International have paid for unhappy customers to have their vehicle refinished until they end up with something they're satisfied with - even if the local franchisee digs their heels in. (They also tend to terminate the licensing agreement with the franchisee - which makes for a sort of natural selection). The standard Chipsaway longevity guarantee is also far in excess of what you'll ordinarily find in the industry.
DieselJohn - it's really impossible to say without seeing the car. Toyotas of a certain age were often painted with a top-coat solid paint that oxidises and dulls with age, and can often be restored with an aggressive machine compounding (and kept good by being kept waxed and not exposed to the air). If that's not the problem though, and it needs new paint, the difference in price for the work would be considerable. If you're really keen for an informed opinion, drop me a PM, and I'll sort out my email address for you to send through some digi photos...
Waynepixel - ChipsAway is one of the most expensive franchises to buy into. And I'd know - I have bought three territories off them! The flip side to that is that they don't take a percentage, rather it's a fixed weekly license fee. They're consistently in the running for franchisor of the year, and the undisputed market leader in their sector, so they can afford to set high prices to buy in. Many operators run as one man/woman and a van, while others have fixed sites or a fleet, and plenty of employees. We're recruiting for a trainee technician at the moment - but we're quite a long way from you in Kent... Raising finance to buy a franchise off them is pretty easy though - the banks know they're a good bet for a business development loan. If you're looking at it as a business option, feel free to drop us a line; we act as supplementary trainers and business development mentors for franchisees starting up, so we know the answers to most of the questions.
Night all!
The ChipsAway Guy
James, your keyed bonnet - I'd suggest a bodyshop repair. The darker a paint is, and the more horizontal a panel is, the less forgiving they are for lacquer edges blending into an original finish. A black bonnet is therefore about the worst possible combination. An edge-to-edge respray would therefore be your best option, and to be done properly, that would require its removal from the car. Not a mobile repair. As Greg says, it isn't necessarily hugely expensive - particularly with a good independent local sprayshop.
BliarOut - the best ways to find out the good from the bad are to get some reviews from punters who've used the particular sprayer you're considering, and to sound them out a bit yourself. It's pretty easy with an enquiring phone call to get an idea of whether your guy is out to treat you solely as a profit source, or if he/she genuinely loves restoring the finish on cars. The best will keep on giving you tips and advice on what to do next when they've already told you that the repair in question isn't suitable for them to do! Asking for the details of a couple of previous customers for testimonials is always an option too - if they get shirty, that's a good sign as regards their professionalism.
JonRB - I'm not sure I agree that that's 'the problem with ChipsAway' - that you're in the dark about quality until you've tried them. That's true of pretty much every paint repairer, so it's more that ChipsAway are no different, rather than it being a particular problem with them. The big plus of ChipsAway over your local independent smart repairer or spray shop is that the franchisor and network provide after sales support if there's a problem. In extreme circumstances, ChipsAway International have paid for unhappy customers to have their vehicle refinished until they end up with something they're satisfied with - even if the local franchisee digs their heels in. (They also tend to terminate the licensing agreement with the franchisee - which makes for a sort of natural selection). The standard Chipsaway longevity guarantee is also far in excess of what you'll ordinarily find in the industry.
DieselJohn - it's really impossible to say without seeing the car. Toyotas of a certain age were often painted with a top-coat solid paint that oxidises and dulls with age, and can often be restored with an aggressive machine compounding (and kept good by being kept waxed and not exposed to the air). If that's not the problem though, and it needs new paint, the difference in price for the work would be considerable. If you're really keen for an informed opinion, drop me a PM, and I'll sort out my email address for you to send through some digi photos...
Waynepixel - ChipsAway is one of the most expensive franchises to buy into. And I'd know - I have bought three territories off them! The flip side to that is that they don't take a percentage, rather it's a fixed weekly license fee. They're consistently in the running for franchisor of the year, and the undisputed market leader in their sector, so they can afford to set high prices to buy in. Many operators run as one man/woman and a van, while others have fixed sites or a fleet, and plenty of employees. We're recruiting for a trainee technician at the moment - but we're quite a long way from you in Kent... Raising finance to buy a franchise off them is pretty easy though - the banks know they're a good bet for a business development loan. If you're looking at it as a business option, feel free to drop us a line; we act as supplementary trainers and business development mentors for franchisees starting up, so we know the answers to most of the questions.
Night all!
The ChipsAway Guy
pjpip, yes, that sounds like bread-and-butter smart repair work. Probably involve removal of the mudflaps, abrasives and some fine stopper to restore the profile, and then a small paintwork repair. If the metalwork has been exposed at all though, you need to be aware that there'll never be any certainty that the dreaded rust won't start to bubble the area at some point in the future.
HTH
CG
>> Edited by ChipsAway Guy on Wednesday 17th May 09:20
HTH
CG
>> Edited by ChipsAway Guy on Wednesday 17th May 09:20
Saabyfox,
Silvers are known in the trade as 'tricky to match' but that's not actually accurate. Matching the colour is very straightforward, but since you're not actually dealing with paint, but lots of little aluminium flakes in a binder, blending a repair into the original finish requires a much higher degree of finesse than with flat colours, or the distribution and alignment of the flakes just shows up the new paintwork really obviously despite the fact that the paint is exactly the same formula . Hence why even minor scratches may need to be blended out to a large area to look seamless.
ChipsAway operators who have not graduated to our two-pack paint system would almost certainly not take on scratches on a high-profile silver panel - and rightly so, the one-pack would not offer a satisfactory repair.
With chipping, if you imagine where a chunk has been taken out of the paintwork by a stone chip, the aluminium flakes are going to sit at a different angle all round the altered profile, and reflect the light differently, appearing darker or lighter than the original paintwork - in the same way that two halves of one panel split by a change-in-angle crease line look different tones. The only way with silvers to achieve a natural repair is to totally restore the profile (ie, filler skim and hand flat each chip (!) or grind back to bare metal and respray edge to edge). Not a feature of SMART repair, or any particular brand, it's just the physics of reflection.
All part of the reason why, for any repairer of any brand, repairs to high-metallic cars are always more expensive.
Witchfinder - isn't that just a feature of humanity? Kinda harsh to point the finger at all Chips franchisees too, that's an experience of one particular guy. Others may offer more consistency...
CG
>> Edited by ChipsAway Guy on Wednesday 17th May 09:30
Silvers are known in the trade as 'tricky to match' but that's not actually accurate. Matching the colour is very straightforward, but since you're not actually dealing with paint, but lots of little aluminium flakes in a binder, blending a repair into the original finish requires a much higher degree of finesse than with flat colours, or the distribution and alignment of the flakes just shows up the new paintwork really obviously despite the fact that the paint is exactly the same formula . Hence why even minor scratches may need to be blended out to a large area to look seamless.
ChipsAway operators who have not graduated to our two-pack paint system would almost certainly not take on scratches on a high-profile silver panel - and rightly so, the one-pack would not offer a satisfactory repair.
With chipping, if you imagine where a chunk has been taken out of the paintwork by a stone chip, the aluminium flakes are going to sit at a different angle all round the altered profile, and reflect the light differently, appearing darker or lighter than the original paintwork - in the same way that two halves of one panel split by a change-in-angle crease line look different tones. The only way with silvers to achieve a natural repair is to totally restore the profile (ie, filler skim and hand flat each chip (!) or grind back to bare metal and respray edge to edge). Not a feature of SMART repair, or any particular brand, it's just the physics of reflection.
All part of the reason why, for any repairer of any brand, repairs to high-metallic cars are always more expensive.
Witchfinder - isn't that just a feature of humanity? Kinda harsh to point the finger at all Chips franchisees too, that's an experience of one particular guy. Others may offer more consistency...
CG
>> Edited by ChipsAway Guy on Wednesday 17th May 09:30
Not sure I understand what you mean by the ChipsAway client network. If you're asking whether or not most of our time is spent working for other ChipsAway operators (as trainers/developers) then no, that's only about 3 or 4 weekends a year out of our turnover.
Some ChipsAway businesses will have a network of dealerships they draw work from on a regular basis, some will be mostly or exclusively retail, others will have a mix. I would say that with our business we are about 95% retail work, with business coming from ordinary advertising such as Yellow Pages, yell.com, newspaper ads, leaflet drops, and the like.
We have some national accounts - the AA and its membership, Walon, Allianz Cornhill, and a few other large national fleets, but apart from that there's no network of established clients.
HTH
CG
Some ChipsAway businesses will have a network of dealerships they draw work from on a regular basis, some will be mostly or exclusively retail, others will have a mix. I would say that with our business we are about 95% retail work, with business coming from ordinary advertising such as Yellow Pages, yell.com, newspaper ads, leaflet drops, and the like.
We have some national accounts - the AA and its membership, Walon, Allianz Cornhill, and a few other large national fleets, but apart from that there's no network of established clients.
HTH
CG
Dakkon said:
Exactly, your branding is ChipsAway, if some franchises are bad they will ruin the reputation for all, you need to raise the standard of you franchises it is as simple as that.
Despite your claims I shall never use your franchises.
Being a franchisee myself, I'm not in a position to manage the quality or reputation of any business but my own. The ChipsAway network is at least regulated for quality at some level, unlike all the rogue and sole traders out there.
The branding is in the main an asset, as throughout the trade, ChipsAway is known as far and away the best quality network out there (most dealerships don't talk about SMART repairs - they simply call them ChipsAway repairs). Of course a few bad apples can spoil it for everyone - and the network would be delighted to be rid of them.
Using a ChipsAway franchise or not is of course a matter for you. Trying to set the record straight about quality in the network (and identify the reasons for the differences across it) was the point of the original post.
CG
Alloy repairs isn't something all operators offer, no. It's part of a bolt-on package to the main paint package and covers wheels and interior trim.
The standard alloy repair system involves aerosol paints. This is just my opinion, but I don't believe aerosols offer a satisfactory quality repair to any modern alloy wheel finish.
Far better results on alloys would involve a properly sprayed two-pack paint repair (which is how the wheel would have been originally painted at the factory). Operators who have the two-pack system on their vans can offer you this sort of repair.
Two further caveats - like all chipsaway repairs, the repair is designed around repairing damage, not a total failure of the original finish. If the problem isn't that you've kerbed or scraped the wheel, but that the manufacturer's paint has rubbish adhesion, or that corrosion is deteriorating the whole finish of the wheel, it would really need to be shot-blasted of all the old finish, and painted again from scratch. Clearly, that's not a mobile repair (but some Chips guys do offer it on a collect-and-return a few days later basis.
And secondly, some alloy wheels aren't painted (although about 95% are - with most of the exceptions being BMW/Merc). Some are turned alloy that's then lacquered - you can spot these by the radial lines running across the surface like the grooves on a record. As turned/polished alloy is really shiny, it looks great, but the lack of any good key means the lacquer almost always fails, and fast. Very minor scuffs in these can be repaired by having the wheel reground - but that's a specialist job for a metalworker, not a paintwork repair. Deep ones - either replace the wheel, or the turned finish will have to be painted over after filling, which changes the whole look of the wheel. And some wheels aren't painted, they're powder-coated, or chrome plated - these ones have an extremely fine mirror-like reflection in the colour, not just the gloss. These can't be patch repaired. Damage on them means a whole new coating.
As for pricing, a small kerb scuff might cost as little as £35+vat to get fixed in a low cost of living part of the country. Kerbing right round the edge of a 19" alloy with scuffs on the spokes too somewhere expensive might be as much as £100. Most operators heavily discount second and further repairs though; we're generally around £50-75 for the first wheel, with further ones about half the cost of the first, since we're already turning up and mixing the paint, which is a large part of the overhead cost.
Hope this helps!
CG
The standard alloy repair system involves aerosol paints. This is just my opinion, but I don't believe aerosols offer a satisfactory quality repair to any modern alloy wheel finish.
Far better results on alloys would involve a properly sprayed two-pack paint repair (which is how the wheel would have been originally painted at the factory). Operators who have the two-pack system on their vans can offer you this sort of repair.
Two further caveats - like all chipsaway repairs, the repair is designed around repairing damage, not a total failure of the original finish. If the problem isn't that you've kerbed or scraped the wheel, but that the manufacturer's paint has rubbish adhesion, or that corrosion is deteriorating the whole finish of the wheel, it would really need to be shot-blasted of all the old finish, and painted again from scratch. Clearly, that's not a mobile repair (but some Chips guys do offer it on a collect-and-return a few days later basis.
And secondly, some alloy wheels aren't painted (although about 95% are - with most of the exceptions being BMW/Merc). Some are turned alloy that's then lacquered - you can spot these by the radial lines running across the surface like the grooves on a record. As turned/polished alloy is really shiny, it looks great, but the lack of any good key means the lacquer almost always fails, and fast. Very minor scuffs in these can be repaired by having the wheel reground - but that's a specialist job for a metalworker, not a paintwork repair. Deep ones - either replace the wheel, or the turned finish will have to be painted over after filling, which changes the whole look of the wheel. And some wheels aren't painted, they're powder-coated, or chrome plated - these ones have an extremely fine mirror-like reflection in the colour, not just the gloss. These can't be patch repaired. Damage on them means a whole new coating.
As for pricing, a small kerb scuff might cost as little as £35+vat to get fixed in a low cost of living part of the country. Kerbing right round the edge of a 19" alloy with scuffs on the spokes too somewhere expensive might be as much as £100. Most operators heavily discount second and further repairs though; we're generally around £50-75 for the first wheel, with further ones about half the cost of the first, since we're already turning up and mixing the paint, which is a large part of the overhead cost.
Hope this helps!
CG
Mikey, your 4-5mm chips on door edges, on presumably a high-metallic finish,
They can be touched in extremely cheaply, and if it's done by airbrush, very evenly. But they will remain visible, as they've only been coloured in, not reprofiled.
They could be rubbed down/filled to perfectly smooth, but the repair would then involve blending into the door panel. The chipsaway (2 pack!) system is certainly up to these repairs - we've painted out the whole side of large silver saloons that had been vandalised with a key scratch - but they're not small or cheap repairs.
Chip repairs are the bane of our lives. They form a tiny percentage of the work we do. And unlike primary paintwork repairs, they are on an 'improve only' basis, unlike the scuffs and scratches we can restore to their full natural beauty.
'ChipsAway' is originally a US brand. And (I'm told) that in the USA they'll refer to any paintwork damage, including long vandal scratches, as 'chipped paint'. So while it makes sense over there to call us that, people over here understand 'chips' to mean stone chips, or door edge chips.
On an almost daily basis I wish we had a brand name that more accurately reflects what we do in the UK market!
CG
They can be touched in extremely cheaply, and if it's done by airbrush, very evenly. But they will remain visible, as they've only been coloured in, not reprofiled.
They could be rubbed down/filled to perfectly smooth, but the repair would then involve blending into the door panel. The chipsaway (2 pack!) system is certainly up to these repairs - we've painted out the whole side of large silver saloons that had been vandalised with a key scratch - but they're not small or cheap repairs.
Chip repairs are the bane of our lives. They form a tiny percentage of the work we do. And unlike primary paintwork repairs, they are on an 'improve only' basis, unlike the scuffs and scratches we can restore to their full natural beauty.
'ChipsAway' is originally a US brand. And (I'm told) that in the USA they'll refer to any paintwork damage, including long vandal scratches, as 'chipped paint'. So while it makes sense over there to call us that, people over here understand 'chips' to mean stone chips, or door edge chips.
On an almost daily basis I wish we had a brand name that more accurately reflects what we do in the UK market!
CG
I don't offer paintless dent repairs as part of my business - although getting one of the techs trained up for it is a plan for this summer. It's a real craft, that the operator needs to be using most days, or the skill decay is a problem. Check with your local Chips guy/gal - if they can't offer it, chances are they'll know of (and subcontract) the best of the local dent specialists.
Access to the rear of the dent helps no end, so yes doorskins are among the easier ones (although reinforcement buttressing or opening assembly can still block access).
With car-park type or bonnet dents, PDR is definitely the way to go - it's much cheaper and quicker than a fill and paint repair.
We improve larger dents before skimming and painting them with a slide hammer that is glued to the top surface, which obviously doesn't need rear access, but is really too imprecise to reprofile the dent by itself.
And the chap we contract in at the moment will access some double skinned dents by drilling a keyhole somewhere inconspicuous (behind the boot lining, or seat panels, for example) reprofile the dent through it, and then seal it with a blanking grommet and silicone. Probably an option for your bonnet.
Again, with high-metallic paintjobs, even the slightest ripple in the finish will be greatly highlighted by the change in the angle of reflection in the metallic flakes in the paint, and what would otherwise be a perfectly acceptable job on a flat colour will still be noticeable - worth asking the question of the dent tech "Can you get that out 100%?" before they get started.
CG
Access to the rear of the dent helps no end, so yes doorskins are among the easier ones (although reinforcement buttressing or opening assembly can still block access).
With car-park type or bonnet dents, PDR is definitely the way to go - it's much cheaper and quicker than a fill and paint repair.
We improve larger dents before skimming and painting them with a slide hammer that is glued to the top surface, which obviously doesn't need rear access, but is really too imprecise to reprofile the dent by itself.
And the chap we contract in at the moment will access some double skinned dents by drilling a keyhole somewhere inconspicuous (behind the boot lining, or seat panels, for example) reprofile the dent through it, and then seal it with a blanking grommet and silicone. Probably an option for your bonnet.
Again, with high-metallic paintjobs, even the slightest ripple in the finish will be greatly highlighted by the change in the angle of reflection in the metallic flakes in the paint, and what would otherwise be a perfectly acceptable job on a flat colour will still be noticeable - worth asking the question of the dent tech "Can you get that out 100%?" before they get started.
CG
Rich,
After some very recent developments with our Head Office, we now cover Cambridge, Ely and area. There have been quite a few operators in this area over the years, and the local region currently has about 5 businesses providing coverage throughout, ranging from started last Christmastime, to about 7 years under their belt.
chrissarjeant,
The trainers at Kidderminster can do some amazing things - the Head Office senior execs seem to delight in damaging their company cars in new and interesting ways just to keep the trainers' skills up to scratch ;o)
One thing I would say though is that being busy in dealerships isn't necessarily a sign of quality. Dealers want repairs done fast and cheap - the car is just a profit source to them - and the level of quality they want is that the damage won't be spotted by a punter seeing the car for the first time. And repair long-term durability they couldn't care less about.
When you work retail, you have to potentially satisfy a customer whose car is his/her baby, who knows exactly where the damage was and will inspect the precise area very thoroughly for any trace of it, and who may be planning to keep the car indefinitely, and will be on your case if the finish doesn't last.
In comparison, keeping dealers happy is a walk in the park :-)
Michelle & Anatol - ChipsAway Guys.
>> Edited by ChipsAway Guy on Wednesday 17th May 19:39
After some very recent developments with our Head Office, we now cover Cambridge, Ely and area. There have been quite a few operators in this area over the years, and the local region currently has about 5 businesses providing coverage throughout, ranging from started last Christmastime, to about 7 years under their belt.
chrissarjeant,
The trainers at Kidderminster can do some amazing things - the Head Office senior execs seem to delight in damaging their company cars in new and interesting ways just to keep the trainers' skills up to scratch ;o)
One thing I would say though is that being busy in dealerships isn't necessarily a sign of quality. Dealers want repairs done fast and cheap - the car is just a profit source to them - and the level of quality they want is that the damage won't be spotted by a punter seeing the car for the first time. And repair long-term durability they couldn't care less about.
When you work retail, you have to potentially satisfy a customer whose car is his/her baby, who knows exactly where the damage was and will inspect the precise area very thoroughly for any trace of it, and who may be planning to keep the car indefinitely, and will be on your case if the finish doesn't last.
In comparison, keeping dealers happy is a walk in the park :-)
Michelle & Anatol - ChipsAway Guys.
>> Edited by ChipsAway Guy on Wednesday 17th May 19:39
Bikes can be a total pain in terms of id'ing the colour used. The actual repair process is pretty similar, except that pretty much anywhere on the bike could well have petrol spilled down it when refuelling, so a paint system that is damaged by solvent exposure is a non-starter, and also bikes tend to have virtually no texture in the lacquer and a really deep gloss in the factory finish that would put many car marques to shame.
T&M
T&M
The base tinting/binder system is Dupont's Centari 6000. Although obviously that's all about to change with the new regs phasing out solvent-based products.
The Dupont tinters, binders and additives are supplied to the franchisees having been put through the Pittsburgh CA plant. Exactly what chemical processes happen to them are the subject of much debate within the network, and are the basis of a lot of protected intellectual property. Some of the grumpier franchisees have aired their doubt that the end product is any different - but since the legal basis for requiring exclusive use of CA branded paint components in the network is the CA process positively affecting the quality, the master franchisors would stand to lose literally millions of dollars/pounds if a disaffected franchisee disputed the claim in court and was shown to be right. Not having had the basic Centari and the CA-processed equivalent put through a mass spectrometer, I couldn't call it either way with certainty ;-)
At the last franchisee meeting two of the CA guys with (IIRC) 25 and 35 years of bodyshop experience prior to CA both came out absolutely with their opinions that the CA products are capable of far more than SMART repairs done with off-the-shelf Dupont. Personally I've no basis for making a comparison. The lacquers are completely proprietary, however.
Mirraclear (the two pack lacquer system) is absolutely iso-free. If anything, that's CA's unique selling point in the market as I perceive it - that it offers mobile SMART repairs with a non-iso two pack that stands up to the rigours of automotive use. There have been a few cases of unscrupulous independent SMART repairers using iso two-packs in an uncontrolled environment - ie a customer's drive. Unsurprisingly, the Environmental Health people get a little grumpy when they find out about it.
You may well be right about the 'chip' branding; although the PC52 system is the entire base system taught in the UK, I see from the US CA website that it's an addition to a stand-alone chip repair system.
As for being disparaging about the airbrushes, I'll happily agree that they're up to chip touch-ins. Attempting to use equipment of that spray pattern and quality on larger SMART repairs is a recipe for a finish that will not satisfy a discerning customer though.
We in the franchise network are fully aware that the job of the franchisees is to make a living doing repairs, and the job of the franchisor is to make money out of the franchisees. But failing franchises make for a bad reputation as a franchisor, and failing due to insufficient support would be a good case for a lawsuit claiming a breach of the franchise agreement obligations. And no franchisor would want the massive damage that comes from being sued by one of your own network - win or lose.
We've been parachuted in on more than one occasion to assist early businesses having difficulty in our role as business development mentors, and at each time paid for by the franchisor to the tune of a bill in the thousands. There has been a change of ownership of the UK franchisor in recent years though, and the current directors seem to be universally recognised by the network as substiantially more committed to supporting the franchisees than the outgoing team (who predated us joining).
Talking to recent starters who used bank finance to begin the business, the story was all very positive, although I think there is now a preferential CA-startup loan package with (again IIRC) HSBC.
T&M
The Dupont tinters, binders and additives are supplied to the franchisees having been put through the Pittsburgh CA plant. Exactly what chemical processes happen to them are the subject of much debate within the network, and are the basis of a lot of protected intellectual property. Some of the grumpier franchisees have aired their doubt that the end product is any different - but since the legal basis for requiring exclusive use of CA branded paint components in the network is the CA process positively affecting the quality, the master franchisors would stand to lose literally millions of dollars/pounds if a disaffected franchisee disputed the claim in court and was shown to be right. Not having had the basic Centari and the CA-processed equivalent put through a mass spectrometer, I couldn't call it either way with certainty ;-)
At the last franchisee meeting two of the CA guys with (IIRC) 25 and 35 years of bodyshop experience prior to CA both came out absolutely with their opinions that the CA products are capable of far more than SMART repairs done with off-the-shelf Dupont. Personally I've no basis for making a comparison. The lacquers are completely proprietary, however.
Mirraclear (the two pack lacquer system) is absolutely iso-free. If anything, that's CA's unique selling point in the market as I perceive it - that it offers mobile SMART repairs with a non-iso two pack that stands up to the rigours of automotive use. There have been a few cases of unscrupulous independent SMART repairers using iso two-packs in an uncontrolled environment - ie a customer's drive. Unsurprisingly, the Environmental Health people get a little grumpy when they find out about it.
You may well be right about the 'chip' branding; although the PC52 system is the entire base system taught in the UK, I see from the US CA website that it's an addition to a stand-alone chip repair system.
As for being disparaging about the airbrushes, I'll happily agree that they're up to chip touch-ins. Attempting to use equipment of that spray pattern and quality on larger SMART repairs is a recipe for a finish that will not satisfy a discerning customer though.
We in the franchise network are fully aware that the job of the franchisees is to make a living doing repairs, and the job of the franchisor is to make money out of the franchisees. But failing franchises make for a bad reputation as a franchisor, and failing due to insufficient support would be a good case for a lawsuit claiming a breach of the franchise agreement obligations. And no franchisor would want the massive damage that comes from being sued by one of your own network - win or lose.
We've been parachuted in on more than one occasion to assist early businesses having difficulty in our role as business development mentors, and at each time paid for by the franchisor to the tune of a bill in the thousands. There has been a change of ownership of the UK franchisor in recent years though, and the current directors seem to be universally recognised by the network as substiantially more committed to supporting the franchisees than the outgoing team (who predated us joining).
Talking to recent starters who used bank finance to begin the business, the story was all very positive, although I think there is now a preferential CA-startup loan package with (again IIRC) HSBC.
T&M
cvro said:
Hi,
does anyone have any idea how good is the water based painting system? Has ChipsAway started to use it already or are they still using up existing stock of the solvent based system?
In their demonstration they do not use primer (and they make a point to sand down to the metal!). Is it only for the demonstration or don't they really use primer?
Thanks.
does anyone have any idea how good is the water based painting system? Has ChipsAway started to use it already or are they still using up existing stock of the solvent based system?
In their demonstration they do not use primer (and they make a point to sand down to the metal!). Is it only for the demonstration or don't they really use primer?
Thanks.
ChipsAway's waterborne system is currently being introduced throughout the network. Some of the operations have been using it for several months.
The demo days are currently being done with the PC52 single pack solvent system, which does not a include primer as a matter of course. Due to waterbased paint's tendency to show even the slightest irregularity, there will be both 1-k and 2-k primer options for the network when spraying waterbased.
As the VOC regs only prohibit bringing to market solvent paint from the end of this year, in common with a lot of the industry, individual ChipsAway operations may well be working down existing solvent stock in parallel with using the new waterborne system. IIRC, actual use of solvent based paint isn't prohibited until something like 2012.
I've used the waterbased product, and my personal opinion is that it is the best of the three ChipsAway systems - though it takes a little longer than the 1k solvent, our franchise almost exclusively paints 2k, so that's not an issue for us. The evenness that can be achieved with metallic and pearl finishes is great, and bold lacquer application doesn't lead to metallic movement. I can't compare it to other waterborne systems, not having used any - but I believe it is unique in that a waterbased tinter set is then modified to be essentially 2k. This means that once dry, the paint is no longer water soluble. Kinda important when you paint on site, out of doors.
Whatever repair system used, the satisfaction and durability warranty you're entitled to from your operator is exactly the same.
HTH,
CG
We've built a local business on the ChipsAway brand. Our marketing makes a lot of the fact that we're not an independent operation - we're part of a network that operates under license. And that license can be (and has been in the past) withdrawn from operators who fail to maintain standards of customer satisfaction. The network will be around in two years time to honour our durability warranty. There's someone to complain to who takes customer complaints seriously if we were to let someone down.
That reassurance element is worth a lot to customers.
Added to that is the fact that, particularly in the motor trade, ChipsAway's reputation as the premium service provider has won us a lot of work, including trade accounts worth thousands of pounds of turnover a month.
So in terms of being an independent - I wouldn't like to have to compete with the business we have now on that basis.
Yes, we do have to cover an ongoing franchise management fee, but that's more than offset by the work we get from ChipsAway Head Office's national advertising, and national accounts with organisations like the AA, Elephant insurance, Walon car transporters, etc etc. And we do see value for that in terms of product R&D, ongoing training (often free), representation on things like the HSE's automotive panel...
As a network, too, we have a great relationship with our franchise neighbours, who provide a great pool for sharing out excess work, specific expertise, holiday cover, etc etc. In any other situation, other operators nearby would be competitors.
The paint is more expensive, being proprietary, but by all accounts, it's more capable than off-the-shelf systems. And in all honesty, even if it were twice the price of a cheaper alternative, materials costs form such a small part of our cost of sale that as a percentage saving, it would be minimal.
As for customer service inputs during the training, yes it's covered. And a lot of the basics are simply compulsory given that the ChipsAway customer charter and warranty are part of the license agreement. Complaints to the Head Office about poor customer service are always followed up; no-one in the network wants the brand reputation to be damaged by a loose cannon...
CG
That reassurance element is worth a lot to customers.
Added to that is the fact that, particularly in the motor trade, ChipsAway's reputation as the premium service provider has won us a lot of work, including trade accounts worth thousands of pounds of turnover a month.
So in terms of being an independent - I wouldn't like to have to compete with the business we have now on that basis.
Yes, we do have to cover an ongoing franchise management fee, but that's more than offset by the work we get from ChipsAway Head Office's national advertising, and national accounts with organisations like the AA, Elephant insurance, Walon car transporters, etc etc. And we do see value for that in terms of product R&D, ongoing training (often free), representation on things like the HSE's automotive panel...
As a network, too, we have a great relationship with our franchise neighbours, who provide a great pool for sharing out excess work, specific expertise, holiday cover, etc etc. In any other situation, other operators nearby would be competitors.
The paint is more expensive, being proprietary, but by all accounts, it's more capable than off-the-shelf systems. And in all honesty, even if it were twice the price of a cheaper alternative, materials costs form such a small part of our cost of sale that as a percentage saving, it would be minimal.
As for customer service inputs during the training, yes it's covered. And a lot of the basics are simply compulsory given that the ChipsAway customer charter and warranty are part of the license agreement. Complaints to the Head Office about poor customer service are always followed up; no-one in the network wants the brand reputation to be damaged by a loose cannon...
CG
cvro said:
Why are they still using the PC52 in the demonstrations if the water based product is better (I know it's your personal opinion but I've seen similar claims elsewhere).
For the guys buying into the franchise now are they being trained directly on the waterbased system or still on the solvent based.
Thanks in advance
You've hit the nail on the head there - the open days are primarily a franchise sales event, and the training for new franchisees has not yet switched over to the new system - so the PC52 system is being demo'd as it's that system that the prospective franchisees on the open day need to see.
CAG
By far and away the best thing you can do is get some feedback on the operator local to you that you'll be using from previous customers. Identify him/her by name, as there can be several different ones working in fairly close proximity. A post in the appropriate regional forum on here might be a good starting point. Alternatively, asking ChipsAway Head Office for the number of the nearest operator to you with the MirraClear system on board will mean you get someone who's not fresh out of training.
If you've got a large chip, the repair options are likely to be either a touch-in with a paint mixed to match the damaged panel (quick, cheaper, effective protection, but can be minimal cosmetic improvement, particularly on high-metallic/pearl finishes), or a full repair - flat out or fill the damage, and then a localised sprayed repair (a much better finish, but more expensive and time-consuming, and very often not suitable for being completed on a mobile basis if the damage is on a roof or bonnet).
HTH
CG
If you've got a large chip, the repair options are likely to be either a touch-in with a paint mixed to match the damaged panel (quick, cheaper, effective protection, but can be minimal cosmetic improvement, particularly on high-metallic/pearl finishes), or a full repair - flat out or fill the damage, and then a localised sprayed repair (a much better finish, but more expensive and time-consuming, and very often not suitable for being completed on a mobile basis if the damage is on a roof or bonnet).
HTH
CG
Edited by ChipsAway Guy on Monday 26th February 17:46
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