FIA looking to make F1 cars harder to drive

[mattikake]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116031

About bloody time! Less downforce, more power, manual gearboxes, steel brakes, no DRS, no access to telemetry, safety-only radio...

[mattikake]

Derek Smith said:

Harder' seems to be open to interpretation. Prost saying they he couldn't drive the car for a whole morning in testing. The current crop of drivers are probably the most fit ever so what's he suggesting?

Did you read this linked article DereK? http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116032

I remember drivers talking about how manual gearbox operation used to take the skin of their knuckles. Fitness has come along way no doubt, but there are limitations to what the human body can achieve. There's no way drivers are so fit now that they'd find an 80's turbo car a breeze.

[mattikake]

Derek Smith said:

mattikake said:

Derek Smith said:

Harder' seems to be open to interpretation. Prost saying they he couldn't drive the car for a whole morning in testing. The current crop of drivers are probably the most fit ever so what's he suggesting?

Did you read this linked article DereK? http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116032

I remember drivers talking about how manual gearbox operation used to take the skin of their knuckles. Fitness has come along way no doubt, but there are limitations to what the human body can achieve. There's no way drivers are so fit now that they'd find an 80's turbo car a breeze.

My feeling is that there's a difference with being fit and having to put up with, for instance, problems such as the gear lever damaging hands.

I was in the pits at a race with GT cars, the TVR T400R. I went in to get a photo of work that a mechanic was going to do inside the cockpit but as he opened the door the heat was so great that I was forced to take a step backwards. When one driver finished his stint, as he walked past me the heat from his clothing was tremendous.

I've seen a couple of drivers from the late 90s close up, still in the turbo era by the way, and there's no way they looked as fit as the current lot. Doesn't Button do Iron Man stuff?

I agree, of course, that no one would find the cars from 15-20 years ago and more easy to drive. But I'd like them not to be fighting the steering wheel so much as fighting to keep the cars on the road.

I liked the days of the Tuscan Challenge when the chassis could not cope with the engine (nor the general standard of driving). What I'd like to see is the car squirming under braking, lots of opposite lock in corners (I know there's lots of that nowadays when the top guys go at it) and squirming again on acceleration. I'm a simple soul.

In short, like watching Goodwood Revival? Sliding in, sliding round, sliding out. Loads of power, no grip, simple cars. The driver makes the difference.

The actual driving of F1 cars today is incredibly dull to watch and "looks" skilless to the average Joe.

[mattikake]

Gaz. said:

mattikake said:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116031

About bloody time! Less downforce, more power, manual gearboxes, steel brakes, no DRS, no access to telemetry, safety-only radio...

Ah what a relief. I saw this topic yesterday on my phone so didn't follow the link and was worried that all of your suggestions were mentioned in the autosport article.

Gaz. said:

Less downforce = so less G-force and slower in the corners.

But OTOH this means more control from the driver and more manlines = skill.

Gaz. said:

Manual boxes - can't see the teams chucking away these seamless shift boxes when everyone but ndycars, NASCAR & some touring cars are using them.

Hasn't everyone who can afford it? But has this been to the benefit of the all-important spectator?

Gaz. said:

Telemetry - as old as the hills and has never been a problem before.

Yeah I realise this, but I as a matter of naturalism, it feels like a cheat. Precision is everything, but I wonder just how good a racing series would be if a driver was forced to understand the dynamics, exploit it, and prove their worth by their own personal understanding on the physics? Imagine if it was banned? Imagine how much more Fangio, Clark, Senna... and the next could cleave the head off the crop? Imagine the whorship. It's Prost v Senna all over again. Lewis and Fred? The best drivers were always the ones who could get in a car, feel it and rag it like no other. These are the guys that are the best... imo!

Gaz. said:

Steel brakes- would make no difference, carbon is used because it's lighter.

Yeah it's matter of downforce, not material, so they say. But then there is also the "feel". No break-by-wire, not computer. Just a man and a break pedal. Muscle and material. Sounds sweet to a man who has seen it and felt it for decades!

Gaz. said:

Radio- this has only become a problem in the last few years with significant driver coaching, even NASCAR has a two way radio...

Pitboads are all a driver should need. It's all I ever had! Consider safety-only - you have a puncture etc. The rest is about the size of your pants = skill + interpretation.

I dunno. I see modern drivers race in the goodwood rivial and see full slide, full race, full skill, and full entertainment. They take to it like they are gladiators. It's a pinnacle of racing. It should be hard, skilful, scary and brute man-stuff. F1 is all well and good as a "formula" but it I'd like it to also be as hard as possible. Prove who is the "best". Drivers and teams alike.

[mattikake]

Personally, I think this should be the biggest ever topic on PH. The fans' voice has been given a niche. What say you?

[mattikake]

8 inches of rain on the track could make modern cars a bit harder to drive.

[mattikake]

F1GTRUeno said:

psdtj said:

Completely behind the idea of this! I'd love to see a 'proper drivers championship' as Brundle put it once,

Do we not risk going back to properly dangerous F1 again though?

The tubs and safety cells of the cars now are so strong that they could be implemented in any design really. HANS devices help too, as do much safer tracks.

I think there's a lot of room to create something great without safety being compromised.

Yep. We're humans. We learn. For instance, what really should happen next is recovery vehicles should have some sort of dodgem-like safety barrier around them after today. Like a mobile circuit barrier. Instead, I suspect, due to over-compensating, we're now likely to have safety cars every single time a car goes off track. Neither are wrong though, and neither will prevent some other accident from happening.

Like most things we do, we go from one extreme to the other - of extreme danger to extreme safety. This has been the problem - the sport has over-compensated on safety to they point that the cars and circuits have become less of a skill. The skill should be in the competition, but that really only means their team mate and no-one else as that is the only true fair challenge. So while formula 1 is a formula of 2 cars against 18 others, it needs to be difficult.

You will never remove the danger element of driving a car round corners at 150mph+, but in trying to make it safer to do so, shouldn't mean the cars should be easy to drive. Unless they intend F1 cars to never be able to do more than 10mph... If they want it safe, then do that. It's like the sport needs to pick one side of the fence to be on.

[mattikake]

There are much fewer mistakes these days and those that are tend to be pushing the limit mistakes, not like, say, missing a gear under pressure or setup perfection. It's also easier to be much more consistent with laptimes, which will have it's impact on overtaking. But the nature of beating the competition should make it hard, the problem is, the only real competition is your team mate, not the rest of the field.

Already being discussed here, but in opposite semantic:- http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...