I have the answer to Honda's problem...
Discussion
The answer is as follows;
Develop new engine based on the knowledge gained from the current rubbish produced for 2015.
Cancel partnership with McLaren.
Leave the sport as Honda.
Supply much improved engines to McLaren, badged as Mugen next year.
Watch the hair of Ron Dennis grow back.
The End...
By doing this 'Engine Tokens' don't come into it.
Develop new engine based on the knowledge gained from the current rubbish produced for 2015.
Cancel partnership with McLaren.
Leave the sport as Honda.
Supply much improved engines to McLaren, badged as Mugen next year.
Watch the hair of Ron Dennis grow back.
The End...
By doing this 'Engine Tokens' don't come into it.
Muzzer79 said:
By the same token (geddit?!) they could have a 3 year old McLaren hammering around Suzuka every week testing development parts
But, in a 'gentleman's agreement', they don't.
Yes I agree, and I enjoyed your pun, but my understanding, based on what I've read recently, is that 'Honda' are not allowed to make the changes required to the engine due to token restrictions.But, in a 'gentleman's agreement', they don't.
Doink said:
They can't go testing while its a Honda so why don't they put a mugen sticker on it and go test all they like in the 3 year old McLaren while still with McLaren as honda
Er...because Honda are not allowed to 'develop' the engine because they don't have enough tokens...Honda know the problem, but can't fix it because of the 'rules'.
The 'sport' of F1 is a total mess.
Too confusing even for me, and I've been watching it since I was a child. That wouldn't matter as such but the cars sound rubbish, they really do, so my interest is waning.
I would argue F1 is always expensive by nature, but now it really has no 'soul' either.
14 years ago I could actually go and see F1 cars probably 15 days a year, with Hakkinen, Montoya, Alesi etc driving, 12 days of which would be free/£5 (Silverstone testing).
Can't do that anymore because of 'costs' and no testing.
Now we have a 'sport' that is flawed because of 'cost-saving' as the participants can't develop their cars, the cars only run 3 days a year (excluding 'young' driver test) and it costs the same as 2 weeks holiday to 'attend', only to queue for hours in traffic and again queue for access, queue for food, queue for toilets and get covered in mud. All the time surround by people wearing official replica team clothing. No chance of seeing or meeting drivers, or even looking at a car.
Then when the cars come out some might not run, or break down, and they all sound broken.
Tokens? What is that about? My only understanding of tokens is Milk Tokens or Travel Tokens, normally buses. Not very cutting-edge is it?
If hybrid (hate the word) technology is the 'way' forward why don't we see electric fighter planes? Can you imagine seeing one fly past with hardly any sound?
F1 is broken. Looking at Honda as the 'norm' rather than the exception might be a better way to view things. If 50% of the grid can't get their engines working-Honda and Renault, both famed for their brilliant engineering, then why would any other manufacturer get involved under the current regime? When I say they can't get them working, they are not allowed to change them. Utterly stupid.
If there was no money, or costs are limited, why do we have the giant hospitality units and massive driver salaries? You can only use 'x' amount of engines a year, to keep costs down, but you can spend £50 million on drivers to drive the cars that don't actually work.
Can you imagine if Ferrari were in Honda's position? I'm sure the rules would be changed then.
Too confusing even for me, and I've been watching it since I was a child. That wouldn't matter as such but the cars sound rubbish, they really do, so my interest is waning.
I would argue F1 is always expensive by nature, but now it really has no 'soul' either.
14 years ago I could actually go and see F1 cars probably 15 days a year, with Hakkinen, Montoya, Alesi etc driving, 12 days of which would be free/£5 (Silverstone testing).
Can't do that anymore because of 'costs' and no testing.
Now we have a 'sport' that is flawed because of 'cost-saving' as the participants can't develop their cars, the cars only run 3 days a year (excluding 'young' driver test) and it costs the same as 2 weeks holiday to 'attend', only to queue for hours in traffic and again queue for access, queue for food, queue for toilets and get covered in mud. All the time surround by people wearing official replica team clothing. No chance of seeing or meeting drivers, or even looking at a car.
Then when the cars come out some might not run, or break down, and they all sound broken.
Tokens? What is that about? My only understanding of tokens is Milk Tokens or Travel Tokens, normally buses. Not very cutting-edge is it?
If hybrid (hate the word) technology is the 'way' forward why don't we see electric fighter planes? Can you imagine seeing one fly past with hardly any sound?
F1 is broken. Looking at Honda as the 'norm' rather than the exception might be a better way to view things. If 50% of the grid can't get their engines working-Honda and Renault, both famed for their brilliant engineering, then why would any other manufacturer get involved under the current regime? When I say they can't get them working, they are not allowed to change them. Utterly stupid.
If there was no money, or costs are limited, why do we have the giant hospitality units and massive driver salaries? You can only use 'x' amount of engines a year, to keep costs down, but you can spend £50 million on drivers to drive the cars that don't actually work.
Can you imagine if Ferrari were in Honda's position? I'm sure the rules would be changed then.
HustleRussell said:
BlimeyCharlie said:
Then when the cars come out some might not run, or break down, and they all sound broken.
...
If 50% of the grid can't get their engines working-Honda and Renault, both famed for their brilliant engineering, then why would any other manufacturer get involved under the current regime? When I say they can't get them working, they are not allowed to change them. Utterly stupid.
...cars that don't actually work.
I hate to bring some fact into this rant but has it escaped you that at the Japanese grand prix less than two weeks ago all cars were classified in the finishing results for the first time in recent memory (possibly ever?) ...
If 50% of the grid can't get their engines working-Honda and Renault, both famed for their brilliant engineering, then why would any other manufacturer get involved under the current regime? When I say they can't get them working, they are not allowed to change them. Utterly stupid.
...cars that don't actually work.
Did you just stop watching in 2014?
I have been watching Suzi and Murray's programs on racing rivalrys and have been struck by how grand prix cars used to drop like flies with mechanical failures back in the day, only a handful of cars finishing and the winner lapping all but two or three of them.
and that was if they started at all. Often, several entrants didn't qualify fast enough to compete because their cars and drivers were just too inferior to the front runners.
When was the 'golden era' upon which you look with your rose tinted spectacles?
I agree that the formula needs change but to criticise the reliability is just ridiculous this season and specifically immediately after Japan
Hence the "GP2 engine" outburst by that novice Alonso, and Red Bull (novices again) not being happy with their engine.
F1 is not an endurance race, there is 'Endurance Racing' for that.
By all means point out that in Suzuka everyone finished. You obviously get your information and opinion from none other than Formula 1 Legends Suzi Perry and Murray Walker (you did quote them) who as far as I can remember (back to early 70's) didn't have much success in F1.
I am amazed how people can argue with even obvious things like Honda engines not working. If they worked they would not be left in the pits (Button earlier this year) or "GP engine" outbursts would not happen.
If F1 is about reliability then it'll be accepting entries for milkfloats soon.
I'm also not interested in what Suzi Perry and Murray Walker have to say either.
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