The Official 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
Date(s): Friday 22 July - Sunday 24 July 2016
UK Broadcast Timings (and local time)
All sessions are live on Channel 4 and Sky F1.
Hungaroring, Mogyoród
Pirelli's info on the nature of circuit on a scale of 1-5:
Live timing for all sessions available here:
http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/f1-...
Info such as lap times, PU use, technical reports, stewards decisions etc for the weekend will appear here:
http://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-one-world-ch...
Weather forecast:
http://www.myweather2.com/Motor-Racing/Hungary/Hun...
The tyre choices requested by the teams:
Pirelli nominated tyres are Medium and Soft for the race.
2015 Qualifying
2015 Race
Fastest Race Lap: 1:24.821 (L68, D. Ricciardo; Red Bull-Renault)
One of last year’s highlights, this race. It’s also a McLaren stomping ground of sorts, so it’s nice to come here. I expect a very competitive field for this one, with Red Bull giving Mercedes a scare and taking the fight to them at the front, with Ferrari close by. Take note of where the current Red Bull drivers finished last year--it should be a fascinating duel between them. Also, a certain Mr. Alonso placed 5th in the best finish for McLaren since they put the Honda engine at the back. It will be interesting to see how McLaren go here, one year on from that result.
A little bit of information from Pirelli about the track that helps to understand the tyre choices from the teams:
UK Broadcast Timings (and local time)
All sessions are live on Channel 4 and Sky F1.
| Session | Day | Sky F1 | Channel 4 | Session Start | Local Time |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Practice 1 | Fri | 0845 | 0855 | 0900 | 1000 |
| Practice 2 | Fri | 1245 | 1255 | 1300 | 1400 |
| Practice 3 | Sat | 0945 | 0955 | 1000 | 1100 |
| Qualifying | Sat | 1200 | 1200 | 1300 | 1400 |
| Race | Sun | 1130 | 1200 | 1300 | 1400 |
Hungaroring, Mogyoród
Pirelli's info on the nature of circuit on a scale of 1-5:
| Downforce | 4 |
| Lateral loads | 4 |
| Tyre stress | 3 |
| Asphalt abrasion | 3 |
| Asphalt grip | 4 |
Live timing for all sessions available here:
http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/f1-...
Info such as lap times, PU use, technical reports, stewards decisions etc for the weekend will appear here:
http://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-one-world-ch...
Weather forecast:
http://www.myweather2.com/Motor-Racing/Hungary/Hun...
| Session | Comment | Air Temp (°C) | Cloud Cover | Rainfall (mm) |
| Practice 1 | Patchy rain | 29-30 | 18% | 1.2 |
| Practice 2 | Light shower | 32-31 | 70% | 0.4 |
| Practice 3 | Sunny | 30-29 | 24% | 0.0 |
| Qualifying | Sunny | 32-32 | 24% | 0.0 |
| Race | Patchy rain | 33 | 39% | 0.9 |
The tyre choices requested by the teams:
Pirelli nominated tyres are Medium and Soft for the race.
2015 Qualifying
| Pos. | Driver | Constructor | Q1 | Q2 | Q3 |
| 1 | Lewis Hamilton | Mercedes | 1:22.890 | 1:22.285 | 1:22.020 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2 | Nico Rosberg | Mercedes | 1:22.979 | 1:22.775 | 1:22.595 |
| 3 | Sebastian Vettel | Ferrari | 1:23.312 | 1:23.168 | 1:22.739 |
| 4 | Daniel Ricciardo | Red Bull Racing-Renault | 1:24.408 | 1:23.230 | 1:22.774 |
| 5 | Kimi Räikkönen | Ferrari | 1:23.596 | 1:23.460 | 1:23.020 |
| 6 | Valtteri Bottas | Williams-Mercedes | 1:23.649 | 1:23.555 | 1:23.222 |
| 7 | Daniil Kvyat | Red Bull Racing-Renault | 1:23.587 | 1:23.597 | 1:23.332 |
| 8 | Felipe Massa | Williams-Mercedes | 1:23.895 | 1:23.598 | 1:23.537 |
| 9 | Max Verstappen | Toro Rosso-Renault | 1:24.032 | 1:23.781 | 1:23.679 |
| 10 | Romain Grosjean | Lotus-Mercedes | 1:24.242 | 1:23.805 | 1:24.181 |
| 11 | Nico Hülkenberg | Force India-Mercedes | 1:24.115 | 1:23.826 | - |
| 12 | Carlos Sainz, Jr. | Toro Rosso-Renault | 1:24.623 | 1:23.869 | - |
| 13 | Sergio Pérez | Force India-Mercedes | 1:24.444 | 1:24.461 | - |
| 14 | Pastor Maldonado | Lotus-Mercedes | 1:23.895 | 1:24.609 | - |
| 15 | Fernando Alonso | McLaren-Honda | 1:24.563 | No time | - |
| 16 | Jenson Button | McLaren-Honda | 1:24.739 | - | - |
| 17 | Marcus Ericsson | Sauber-Ferrari | 1:24.843 | - | - |
| 18 | Felipe Nasr | Sauber-Ferrari | 1:24.997 | - | - |
| 19 | Roberto Merhi | Marussia-Ferrari | 1:27.416 | - | - |
| 20 | Will Stevens | Marussia-Ferrari | 1:27.949 | - | - |
2015 Race
| Pos. | Driver | Constructor | Laps | Time/Retired | Grid |
| 1 | Sebastian Vettel | Ferrari | 69 | 1:46:09.985 | 3 |
| 2 | Daniil Kvyat | Red Bull Racing-Renault | 69 | +15.7482 | 7 |
| 3 | Daniel Ricciardo | Red Bull Racing-Renault | 69 | +25.084 | 4 |
| 4 | Max Verstappen | Toro Rosso-Renault | 69 | +44.251 | 9 |
| 5 | Fernando Alonso | McLaren-Honda | 69 | +49.079 | 15 |
| 6 | Lewis Hamilton | Mercedes | 69 | +52.025 | 1 |
| 7 | Romain Grosjean | Lotus-Mercedes | 69 | +58.578 | 10 |
| 8 | Nico Rosberg | Mercedes | 69 | +58.876 | 2 |
| 9 | Jenson Button | McLaren-Honda | 69 | +1:07.028 | 16 |
| 10 | Marcus Ericsson | Sauber-Ferrari | 69 | +1:09.130 | 17 |
| 11 | Felipe Nasr | Sauber-Ferrari | 69 | +1:13.458 | 18 |
| 12 | Felipe Massa | Williams-Mercedes | 69 | +1:14.278 | 8 |
| 13 | Valtteri Bottas | Williams-Mercedes | 69 | +1:20.228 | 6 |
| 14 | Pastor Maldonado | Lotus-Mercedes | 69 | +1:25.142 | 14 |
| 15 | Roberto Merhi | Marussia-Ferrari | 67 | +2 Laps | 19 |
| 161 | Will Stevens | Marussia-Ferrari | 65 | Suspension | 20 |
| Ret | Carlos Sainz, Jr. | Toro Rosso-Renault | 60 | Fuel pressure | 12 |
| Ret | Kimi Räikkönen | Ferrari | 55 | Hybrid system | 5 |
| Ret | Sergio Pérez | Force India-Mercedes | 53 | Brakes | 13 |
| Ret | Nico Hülkenberg | Force India-Mercedes | 41 | Front wing | 11 |
Fastest Race Lap: 1:24.821 (L68, D. Ricciardo; Red Bull-Renault)
One of last year’s highlights, this race. It’s also a McLaren stomping ground of sorts, so it’s nice to come here. I expect a very competitive field for this one, with Red Bull giving Mercedes a scare and taking the fight to them at the front, with Ferrari close by. Take note of where the current Red Bull drivers finished last year--it should be a fascinating duel between them. Also, a certain Mr. Alonso placed 5th in the best finish for McLaren since they put the Honda engine at the back. It will be interesting to see how McLaren go here, one year on from that result.
A little bit of information from Pirelli about the track that helps to understand the tyre choices from the teams:
Pirelli said:
There is only one significant straight on the Hungaroring, which means that the tyres do not get much opportunity to cool down. As a result, the medium tyre in particular (a low working range compound) will be constantly working at the upper end of its working range if it is hot. However, rain has been seen at the Hungaroring in the past too: notably [in 2014].
As well as being tough on tyres, the Hungaroring is very physically demanding on the drivers. They have often compared it to Singapore (renowned as the most physically demanding track of the year) due to the high number of corners, significant ambient temperatures, and comparatively little airflow though the car.
The Hungaroring is a circuit that is quite well balanced in terms of traction, braking and lateral energy demands. All the forces acting on the car are roughly equal in their extent, meaning that a neutral set-up is needed. The teams tend to run maximum downforce to generate the most aerodynamic grip.
So, Soft is the better race tyre while the Super Soft being sub optimal as it’s working range is slightly lower than even the Medium tyre. But because the Super Soft is the grippier tyre and its pace advantage is quite substantial in comparison to the Soft, the Top 10 teams will have to rely on that tyre for the 1st stint (as they'll be forced to qualify on it in Q2). This opens up the possibility for drivers starting outside of P10 to have a longer 1st stint on the Soft and make progress through the field as the front runners pit.As well as being tough on tyres, the Hungaroring is very physically demanding on the drivers. They have often compared it to Singapore (renowned as the most physically demanding track of the year) due to the high number of corners, significant ambient temperatures, and comparatively little airflow though the car.
The Hungaroring is a circuit that is quite well balanced in terms of traction, braking and lateral energy demands. All the forces acting on the car are roughly equal in their extent, meaning that a neutral set-up is needed. The teams tend to run maximum downforce to generate the most aerodynamic grip.
Edited by Dr Z on Thursday 21st July 10:53
cgt2 said:
I'm convinced Max is going to be right up the sharp end. It's a very Red Bull focused track and last year he went from 9th to 4th, one place behind Ricciardo. Yes the Mercs had problems but with the way he is driving now he has to be a contender for a win on merit.
I can see Max pulling a pass on this track in one of those places where people say it's impossible (as Mansell did on Senna in the 1989 Hungarian GP whilst lapping Johansson).
If Max beats Ricciardo again there are going to be some fireworks at Red Bull though.
Red Bull started showing some improvement mid way through last year and Ricciardo split the Ferraris in qualifying. Given how much Red Bull have closed the gap and then made gains on top of that in other tracks this year so far, I very much think this race could be a repeat of Monaco except without the rain. Danny Ric desperately needs a good result, and there will be an uproar if Max beats him again.I can see Max pulling a pass on this track in one of those places where people say it's impossible (as Mansell did on Senna in the 1989 Hungarian GP whilst lapping Johansson).
If Max beats Ricciardo again there are going to be some fireworks at Red Bull though.
In four of the coming races not including this one, I think Red Bull have a realistic chance of being 2nd best or equal best with Merc. Ricciardo must win all those to have any chance in the title fight. He can't afford to have Max beating him if Red Bull are in a winning position or take the podium spots above him. I find their rivalry more interesting than the boring Lewis vs Nico main plot this season!
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/arrivabene-says-...
Even Arrivabene has had enough. Sounds like they want to see where they are in this race and make a decision to divert more of the resources to 2017.
Even Arrivabene has had enough. Sounds like they want to see where they are in this race and make a decision to divert more of the resources to 2017.
Saturday is supposed to be hot and sunny, but some weather appears to be developing for the race day. The tarmac for the circuit has been completely relaid so it will be an important factor in understanding the tyres in the practice sessions, but some rain is predicted for tomorrow.
Combination of new tarmac and ambient temp in the low thirties, I expect track temp in the mid to high 40s...would not discount Ferrari here. Clearly up to something ordering so many Super softs, trying to learn as much as possible to get them in the sweet spot.
There's this stat doing the rounds in GP previews: since 2005, the winner of the Hungarian GP had never gone on to win the WDC that year. A kiss of death?
Combination of new tarmac and ambient temp in the low thirties, I expect track temp in the mid to high 40s...would not discount Ferrari here. Clearly up to something ordering so many Super softs, trying to learn as much as possible to get them in the sweet spot.
There's this stat doing the rounds in GP previews: since 2005, the winner of the Hungarian GP had never gone on to win the WDC that year. A kiss of death?
suffolk009 said:
I'm seeing some tweets that the radio usage rules has been reconsidered for this weekend. Any one have details?
From motorsport.com:motorsport.com said:
From now on, if a team warns a driver that there is a problem with the car it must include an instruction that forces the driver to come into the pits for necessary repairs.
This will automatically result in a hefty time penalty that would discourage any team using a potential safety issue for performance benefits.
The new FIA note says that a permitted message is: "Indication of a problem with the car, any message of this sort must include an irreversible instruction to enter the pits to rectify the problem or to retire the car."
A newly-worded part referencing what is allowed states: "Instructions to select driver defaults, this must be for the sole purpose of mitigating loss of function of a sensor, actuator or controller whose degradation or failure was not detected and handled by the onboard software.
"It will be the responsibility of any team giving any such instruction to satisfy the FIA technical delegate that this was the case and that any new setting chosen in this way did not enhance the performance of the car beyond that prior to the loss of function (see Article 8.2.4 of the Technical Regulations)."
Rules on information about car damage have also been tightened up, with teams now only allowed to tell drivers about broken 'bodywork' rather than other components.
Another change is that the FIA radio restrictions will now only count when the car is out of the pitlane, rather than simply out of the garage as had been in place before.
This in theory means that if drivers are coming down the pitlane with a critical problem then they can receive instructions to fix the issue without the need to go into the garage.
This will automatically result in a hefty time penalty that would discourage any team using a potential safety issue for performance benefits.
The new FIA note says that a permitted message is: "Indication of a problem with the car, any message of this sort must include an irreversible instruction to enter the pits to rectify the problem or to retire the car."
A newly-worded part referencing what is allowed states: "Instructions to select driver defaults, this must be for the sole purpose of mitigating loss of function of a sensor, actuator or controller whose degradation or failure was not detected and handled by the onboard software.
"It will be the responsibility of any team giving any such instruction to satisfy the FIA technical delegate that this was the case and that any new setting chosen in this way did not enhance the performance of the car beyond that prior to the loss of function (see Article 8.2.4 of the Technical Regulations)."
Rules on information about car damage have also been tightened up, with teams now only allowed to tell drivers about broken 'bodywork' rather than other components.
Another change is that the FIA radio restrictions will now only count when the car is out of the pitlane, rather than simply out of the garage as had been in place before.
This in theory means that if drivers are coming down the pitlane with a critical problem then they can receive instructions to fix the issue without the need to go into the garage.
Verstappen has taken his 3rd allocation of some components (ICE, TC, MGU-H, MGU-K and ES) for this weekend. Have highlighted who got new parts for the weekend:
In the FP1 timesheet above, Ricciardo set his time on 10 lap old Softs vs the Mercs setting their times on brand new Super Softs...the delta looks about right. The McLarens also set their times on Softs...possible 4th best car for the race? Also, Vettel set his time on 6 lap old Super Softs and he'd been doing a couple of charge lap/hot lap sequence before setting his time.
I'll wait till FP2 before making any grand pronouncements for the weekend. The track is still green and evolving pretty quickly...ambient temp was in the low-mid 20s and track temp was already in the low 40s. Very Malaysia 2015-like track temps tomorrow and if it stays dry/clear on race day.
| Car | Driver | ICE | TC | MGU-H | MGU-K | ES | CE |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mercedes | Lewis Hamilton | 3 | 5 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Mercedes | Nico Rosberg | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| Ferrari | Sebastian Vettel | 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Ferrari | Kimi Räikkönen | 3 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 3 |
| Williams Mercedes | Felipe Massa | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| Williams Mercedes | Valtteri Bottas | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| RBR TAG Heuer | Daniel Ricciardo | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 3 |
| RBR TAG Heuer | Max Verstappen | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 5 |
| Force India Mercedes | Nico Hülkenberg | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| Force India Mercedes | Sergio Perez | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| Renault | Kevin Magnussen | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 3 |
| Renault | Jolyon Palmer | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Toro Rosso Ferrari | Daniil Kvyat | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Toro Rosso Ferrari | Carlos Sainz | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Sauber Ferrari | Marcus Ericsson | 4 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 3 |
| Sauber Ferrari | Felipe Nasr | 4 | 3 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 3 |
| McLaren Honda | Fernando Alonso | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 |
| McLaren Honda | Jenson Button | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 |
| MRT Mercedes | Pascal Wehrlein | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| MRT Mercedes | Rio Haryanto | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 2 |
| Haas Ferrari | Romain Grosjean | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 2 |
| Haas Ferrari | Esteban Gutierrez | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 3 |
In the FP1 timesheet above, Ricciardo set his time on 10 lap old Softs vs the Mercs setting their times on brand new Super Softs...the delta looks about right. The McLarens also set their times on Softs...possible 4th best car for the race? Also, Vettel set his time on 6 lap old Super Softs and he'd been doing a couple of charge lap/hot lap sequence before setting his time.
I'll wait till FP2 before making any grand pronouncements for the weekend. The track is still green and evolving pretty quickly...ambient temp was in the low-mid 20s and track temp was already in the low 40s. Very Malaysia 2015-like track temps tomorrow and if it stays dry/clear on race day.
Edited by Dr Z on Friday 22 July 12:11
VladD said:
Don't they use old/non-race units for FP1 and FP2?
[serious answer]Don't quote me on it, but they manage the mileage on all PUs they have in the pool...it may be the one that has marginally more mileage or the old one from early on in the season. Hamilton's allocation is a bit more tricky as he ended up taking 2 complete fresh PUs early on, so the less mileage he puts on them on a Friday, the further he can make them go in the race/fridays due to the penalties.Long run data from today:
I've given the the number of laps from the run taken into the calculation (I filtered out the slow laps) and the average time and standard deviation in brackets. The SD gives you an idea of the deg rate of the stint, generally the smaller that number, the better because it tells you how much was being taken out of the tyres for that average lap time. So, Verstappen averaging 86.17s is taking a lot more out of the tyres than Rosberg averaging 85.25s (SD=0.66 vs 0.38). Max's pace is not sustainable for the 1st stint so he'll be likely slower than the pace he set in this run. Most of these Super Soft long runs were done on tyres that were 5-8 laps old. I think Vettel's run was done on 8-lap old Super Softs, so it's likely to be a lot closer to the Verstappen/Raikkonen pace.
The Merc in Rosberg's hands looked bloody fast! At least 0.5s/lap faster on the Super Soft (1st stint) than the rest. On today's evidence, it's game over if the Mercs are not challenged at the start. Pole looks to be a formality, although the Red Bulls might give them a good run. I still expect the Merc to edge it. Possibly breaking the previous fastest ever pole lap around this track.
McLaren look pretty good, I'm looking forward to seeing what they can do in qualifying.
I've given the the number of laps from the run taken into the calculation (I filtered out the slow laps) and the average time and standard deviation in brackets. The SD gives you an idea of the deg rate of the stint, generally the smaller that number, the better because it tells you how much was being taken out of the tyres for that average lap time. So, Verstappen averaging 86.17s is taking a lot more out of the tyres than Rosberg averaging 85.25s (SD=0.66 vs 0.38). Max's pace is not sustainable for the 1st stint so he'll be likely slower than the pace he set in this run. Most of these Super Soft long runs were done on tyres that were 5-8 laps old. I think Vettel's run was done on 8-lap old Super Softs, so it's likely to be a lot closer to the Verstappen/Raikkonen pace.
| Super Soft | No. of laps | Average (SD) |
|---|---|---|
| ROS | 10 | 85.25 (0.387) |
| RAI | 5 | 86.14 (0.595) |
| VES | 7 | 86.17 (0.665) |
| BUT | 4 | 86.38 (0.300) |
| MAG | 8 | 86.61 (0.401) |
| VET | 13 | 86.65 (0.786) |
| RIC | 6 | 86.74 (0.512) |
| MAS | 10 | 87.14 (0.545) |
| ALO | 8 | 87.27 (0.273) |
| HUL | 8 | 87.35 (0.804) |
| HAR | 3 | 87.78 (0.257) |
| GUT | 10 | 87.89 (0.742) |
| PER | 9 | 87.89 (0.83) |
| BOT | 6 | 88.05 (0.898) |
| KVY | 8 | 88.26 (0.413) |
| Soft | No. of laps | Average (SD) |
|---|---|---|
| ROS | 11 | 84.98 (0.569) |
| RIC | 8 | 85.84 (0.239) |
| VES | 8 | 86.09 (0.317) |
| RAI | 17 | 86.44 (0.455) |
| GUT | 5 | 86.51 (0.264) |
| PER | 13 | 86.8 (0.477) |
| HUL | 19 | 86.87 (0.221) |
| MAS | 11 | 86.95 (0.549) |
| KVY | 11 | 87.12 (0.955) |
| SAI | 7 | 87.12 (0.427) |
| BOT | 12 | 87.21 (0.262) |
| BUT | 12 | 87.6 (0.331) |
| MAG | 16 | 87.78 (0.497) |
| GRO | 10 | 87.82 (0.507) |
| NAS | 13 | 88.23 (0.374) |
| ERI | 12 | 88.27 (0.47) |
| HAR | 15 | 89.19 (1.316) |
The Merc in Rosberg's hands looked bloody fast! At least 0.5s/lap faster on the Super Soft (1st stint) than the rest. On today's evidence, it's game over if the Mercs are not challenged at the start. Pole looks to be a formality, although the Red Bulls might give them a good run. I still expect the Merc to edge it. Possibly breaking the previous fastest ever pole lap around this track.
McLaren look pretty good, I'm looking forward to seeing what they can do in qualifying.
Edited by Dr Z on Friday 22 July 18:16
DanielSan said:
12 and 14th for Mclaren. Everyone expected the amazing chassis to help them in Monaco.... turned out that was as poor as the donkey in the back so more of the same here.
Actually, to my surprise the McLarens looked good on the Super Soft. I would say clear 4th best car behind Merc, RB and Ferrari based on the long runs.
cgt2 said:
So Max did 15 fewer laps and was on it. Quali should be interesting. I'd love to see more of Max schooling the others in the race but he might already be in front.
Max was only doing quali work, Dan did an extra run on the Super Soft...presumably to validate changes made to the car in view of the race pace. Ditto Vettel and Hamilton, the latter having a feel for the first time due to lack of running yesterday. None of them came close to the kind of pace Rosberg was showing yesterday. Ferrari seem closer to Red Bull today. I have a suspicion that Red Bull are sandbagging with their Sector 1 speeds. Let's see if they let rip in Quali.
Leroy902 said:
deadslow said:
hairyben said:
Mastodon2 said:
It's so cringeworthy listening to that little c*nt Rosberg whooping into the radio like he earned that.
Hes just got no humility has he, when most drivers might give you a slightly embarrased little smile at being gifted something.
SmoothCriminal said:
Apparently Hamilton was 4 tenths up on rosberg in the first sector of his aborted lap.....
Yes, and so was Ricciardo. Lewis getting pole wasn't a done deal.I'm just teed off that Yellow flags are not enforced strictly. Lifting briefly under double waved yellows is not enough. It was the same for Hulkenberg a few races ago.
ETA: Having replayed the sector times, only Hamilton was 0.4s up on the others in S1. But the Red Bulls have been quicker than the Merc in S2 and we never really got to see what they could do. It was also neck and neck between the Merc and RB in S3. It's a shame, it could have been a proper battle.
Edited by Dr Z on Saturday 23 July 18:53
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