Liberty changes relationships and possibly the CEO
Discussion
Liberty are offering shares to F1 teams, totalling 22.5% of the total shares, this at preferential rates.
On top of that, those teams with shares will be notified of changes to the regs and will be consulted, and this includes any changes to the CEO.
A change of attitude to the teams or much needed income?
http://news.sky.com/story/f1-teams-face-ten-year-w...
On top of that, those teams with shares will be notified of changes to the regs and will be consulted, and this includes any changes to the CEO.
A change of attitude to the teams or much needed income?
http://news.sky.com/story/f1-teams-face-ten-year-w...
Edited by Derek Smith on Monday 9th January 19:06
There's a big meeting this week with Liberty getting the (required?) nod from the FIA on their takeover.
There's little the FIA can do I'm told.
There's been a lot of talk about engines; their affordability in the main. With the now current regs due to run out in three years, the planning will be for 2020 unless Liberty can get the teams to agree on changes. That is unlikely I reckon but you never know I suppose. But we do, don't we.
If, as suggested, Liberty wants 23 races then it might explain the Silverstone stance. Other countries have expressed concern over pricing. I would assume the teams are concerned about 23 races as well. We might know a bit more, but I would reckon that whatever Liberty says will be conditional.
Ten teams now. The sport needs 13, possibly more, so their first act should be to encourage more teams into the sport. That's not easy. I wonder if they will drop the charges. No one seems to be rushing forwards to buy Manor and get an easy in. Wouldn't it be nice to have pre-qualifying. Wouldn't it be even better to have a new team be able to threaten the leading cabal withing a couple of season.
Cutting costs for teams is an essential. Maybe limiting the number of mechanics in each pit, or team members at the event, a reduction in aero? How about a standard and rather cheap engine, with no limits on number used. Standard aero? That's about as likely as road tyres or only rear wheel brakes. Mind you, if we want overtaking . . .
Will Liberty makes some demands of the FIA and teams, given a nearly 10% reduction in teams? They might be sweating a bit about losing another one, perhaps even two.
There's little the FIA can do I'm told.
There's been a lot of talk about engines; their affordability in the main. With the now current regs due to run out in three years, the planning will be for 2020 unless Liberty can get the teams to agree on changes. That is unlikely I reckon but you never know I suppose. But we do, don't we.
If, as suggested, Liberty wants 23 races then it might explain the Silverstone stance. Other countries have expressed concern over pricing. I would assume the teams are concerned about 23 races as well. We might know a bit more, but I would reckon that whatever Liberty says will be conditional.
Ten teams now. The sport needs 13, possibly more, so their first act should be to encourage more teams into the sport. That's not easy. I wonder if they will drop the charges. No one seems to be rushing forwards to buy Manor and get an easy in. Wouldn't it be nice to have pre-qualifying. Wouldn't it be even better to have a new team be able to threaten the leading cabal withing a couple of season.
Cutting costs for teams is an essential. Maybe limiting the number of mechanics in each pit, or team members at the event, a reduction in aero? How about a standard and rather cheap engine, with no limits on number used. Standard aero? That's about as likely as road tyres or only rear wheel brakes. Mind you, if we want overtaking . . .
Will Liberty makes some demands of the FIA and teams, given a nearly 10% reduction in teams? They might be sweating a bit about losing another one, perhaps even two.
The FIA have nodded through the sale of the commercial rights and Delta Topco to Liberty. Completion is expected in a couple of months.
One would assume that other decisions were made with regards the way F1 is to be run, but no press release has been forthcoming.
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/
We await developments.
Edited to add:
There's an enigmatic mention of the 3-year deal with Ecclestone, specifically as to whether it will run full term.
One would assume that other decisions were made with regards the way F1 is to be run, but no press release has been forthcoming.
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/
We await developments.
Edited to add:
There's an enigmatic mention of the 3-year deal with Ecclestone, specifically as to whether it will run full term.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
The worm may be turning Derek. If I was Silverstone I'd be hedging my bets on playing the strong arm tactic and you can bet if Silverstone are thinking it, Monza, Spa, Nürburgring, Hockenheim and Hungary are thinking the same. That's before you mention Suzuka, COTA and Sao Paulo....
If Liberty are intent on revolutionising the way the sport is run they will have to accept a new levelled playing field to enable that new regime to thrive.
We could just possibly be on the threshold of a new era of expansion for the sport if Liberty are wanting to take the risk. The ground is already set for them, the previous regime has been milking the existing clientele base for every single £$€ they could cough up. Now could be an exciting period of free content in order to widen that clientele to unseen levels.
As a business proposition it must be incredibly exciting, should the sport's reach be widened the eventual spoils would be mind boggling.
This is, I think, the best hope for F1.If Liberty are intent on revolutionising the way the sport is run they will have to accept a new levelled playing field to enable that new regime to thrive.
We could just possibly be on the threshold of a new era of expansion for the sport if Liberty are wanting to take the risk. The ground is already set for them, the previous regime has been milking the existing clientele base for every single £$€ they could cough up. Now could be an exciting period of free content in order to widen that clientele to unseen levels.
As a business proposition it must be incredibly exciting, should the sport's reach be widened the eventual spoils would be mind boggling.
I think the last few seasons have been tremendously exciting, from 2007 onwards it's given lots of talking points. There's been a number of tight finishes for the WDC - last race, last lap, last corner, nothing penultimate about that one - and some exciting duels. Yet its popularity doesn't reflect this. We have rule changes this season in order to give other teams, those without money, a chance to compete on aero; fat chance of that.
Let's hope Liberty will take a long term view. And let's hope your 'could just possibly' will happen.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
People seem to forget that in the last ten years there have probably only been three seasons where the WDC was a walkover and even in those there has been inter team rivalries that have kept things spicy. F1 has as a sport been incredibly healthy.
[some good ideas and comment]
Personally I think they need to produce a really slick show that people will actually want to pay for (as I do now), with a hugely improved on line side to coverage, extra content etc.
But what do I know....
I had a meal with a mate who is a complete and utter F1 nerd. We were talking about the Lotus 72 and I mentioned that it had been driven in F1 races by 18 drivers according to a book I read. He got all 18. So a nerd. I tried, and got a bit of a bonus by inventing a driver, Miles (when I meant Miller)but I stopped at the normal suspects.[some good ideas and comment]
Personally I think they need to produce a really slick show that people will actually want to pay for (as I do now), with a hugely improved on line side to coverage, extra content etc.
But what do I know....
We both reckoned that the last 10 years, as you say, have been exciting on the circuit. With invisible Todt in control we've had none of the dreadful political disasters seemingly orchestrated by the previous incumbent. Yet in this country, despite a British driver winning races most years, even in the 2011 McLaren, the popularity of the sport appears to be on the wane.
I can't understand it.
One thing which doesn't help:
I used to run F1 fanzine websites. A bit nerdish I know but good fun. All the news before it happens was the strapline but this wasn't sufficient to show that much was made up. I would put up fake interviews, have drivers tell me they were upset, or get into disagreements with team owners - when I complained that the floor moved on the Ferrari motor home I was kidnapped and held hostage, but they had to pay my wife to take me back. So childish, but there would be 500 words of comment each race.
I had a telephone interview with Ron Dennis who couldn't remember who Coulthard was and when I admitted he was Scandinavian, he didn't care. Yet I would get the occasional email to ask if what I'd written was true. I had quite a few people whom I used to correspond with once the websites stopped. I still have two and we text/email during races on occasion.
Once I started getting a bit popular, normally when over 750 unique visitors the day after each race - one season, at least second half, I topped 900 - I would get threatening emails telling me not to use F1 or Formula 1 in the URL.
I didn't believe it at first and contacted another fanzine publisher and was told that she had experienced the same problem. It seems a lawyer, or probably clerk or intern, had the job of trawling the internet to write threatening letters.
It's their registered name so they can do what they want, but why try and stop nerd enjoying the sport? I thought I would be pushing their product, although not my primary motive.
I used to run F1 fanzine websites. A bit nerdish I know but good fun. All the news before it happens was the strapline but this wasn't sufficient to show that much was made up. I would put up fake interviews, have drivers tell me they were upset, or get into disagreements with team owners - when I complained that the floor moved on the Ferrari motor home I was kidnapped and held hostage, but they had to pay my wife to take me back. So childish, but there would be 500 words of comment each race.
I had a telephone interview with Ron Dennis who couldn't remember who Coulthard was and when I admitted he was Scandinavian, he didn't care. Yet I would get the occasional email to ask if what I'd written was true. I had quite a few people whom I used to correspond with once the websites stopped. I still have two and we text/email during races on occasion.
Once I started getting a bit popular, normally when over 750 unique visitors the day after each race - one season, at least second half, I topped 900 - I would get threatening emails telling me not to use F1 or Formula 1 in the URL.
I didn't believe it at first and contacted another fanzine publisher and was told that she had experienced the same problem. It seems a lawyer, or probably clerk or intern, had the job of trawling the internet to write threatening letters.
It's their registered name so they can do what they want, but why try and stop nerd enjoying the sport? I thought I would be pushing their product, although not my primary motive.
FourWheelDrift said:
Liberty to axe Ferrari's £100m special relationship bonus? - http://www.crash.net/f1/news/237964/1/liberty-to-a...
The current system is contracted until 2020. What happens then is open to debate.Ferrari must agree to the cut if it is to be implemented before that date. Whilst this seems, to put it mildly, unlikely, the could be promises. Ferrari might know that they are unlikely to continue to receive the full amount post 2020, so a suggestion that they might receive half their advantage might not go amiss.
But I doubt it.
Jonnny said:
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ecclestone-confi...Brawn as sporting director? What does he know about being sporting?
Let's hope it is not too late.
Petrolhe4d said:
Ok so I tend to agree Bernie probably had to go (wish it was before he sold out to sky)but I have to take my hat off and thank him for turning what was a race series fraught with danger for very little financial reward into the juggernaut it is now.
I'm not sure Ecclestone had much to do with improving safety.Safety measures were introduced over a period from the 70s, and not pushed by the organisers in the first instance. We owe much of the improvements recently to the threat of legal action.
Jackie Stewart, the multiple WDC derided by Mosely, started the improvements in safety that drivers, other staff, volunteers and spectators enjoy today way back in the middle 60s. There was a singular reluctance on behalf of the both the organisers and the media to do anything.
Whether F1 is the better now than it was when Ecclestone started to gain his power in the late 70s is open to argument. However, I think there's little for any suggestion that Ecclestone made the sport safer.
Bradgate said:
They need to start taking online and social media seriously, to engage new generations of fans. One of F1's biggest problems is that its core fan base is old, nerdy, male and obsessed with the past rather than the future.
I'm not obsesses with the past. I enjoy the history of F1, motorsport in general in fact, but I think my posting history will show that it is the future, and the long term health of the sport, that I concentrate on, hence my resentment of Ecclestone's influence.I'll have old, nerdy and male though.
But you are right that the sport needs to grab the young, especially in Europe. Much as I have enjoyed F1 throughout the years I've been following it and do not look forward to Americanisation, or do I mean Americanization, of the way the sport is run, I might, begrudgingly, admit that it could be just the thing to get youngsters to take an interest.
F1 has been under threat before, and often collapse has seemed imminent. F1 as we know it now might not survive 2020.
C Lee Farquar said:
Does anyone honestly believe that Liberty Media will subsidise the older circuits or under performing teams?
They have an $8 billion investment to service, far greater than CVCs. They need to take out over a million dollars a day for a 5% return before repaying any capital. I think Bernie's drawings are going to look like petty cash payments.
Perhaps Robin Hood has a improbable moustache, it'll be interesting to see what happens.
More to the point is whether they will try and milk the circuits and put obstructions in the way of teams trying to compete. They have an $8 billion investment to service, far greater than CVCs. They need to take out over a million dollars a day for a 5% return before repaying any capital. I think Bernie's drawings are going to look like petty cash payments.
Perhaps Robin Hood has a improbable moustache, it'll be interesting to see what happens.
Liberty need teams. The organisation of motorsport means that there is little in the way of a step ladder in the same way F2 used to be. Or, come to that, other forumulae. It is almost as if the organisers didn't want competition, but that is obviously silly.
Liberty will have to encourage new teams to come forward, one might say step up to the plate I suppose. They will have less money to spend so there might well be more concentration on distribution. If it wants to service its fan base it will need to drop the charges for European circuits to hold the GPs or, perhaps, allow them other revenue streams.
Vaud said:
Yipper said:
Posting a few more tweets ain't gonna save F1. The sport has lost its spark. Older viewers miss the danger, while younger viewers would rather play Counter Strike of a Sunday afternoon.
I'm an "older viewer" - well in my 40s and been following since about 7 years old... and I love the current sport. I think it has been appallingly packaged, but we have had some great seasons 2010-2016, just to take this decade. Lots of quality drivers, few pay drivers. Only a couple have I switched off from.
The future is even brighter, I can't think of a better lead on the sporting side than Ross B.
There was no succession planning under Ecclestone. I saw no sign of planning for the long term future of the sport. It seemed as if the only intent was to sell it on.
Liberty must see a bright future for F1 or else they would not have bought it. The only question is how long they intend to remain in control. If they sell it on in a year or so then the sport will take a massive hit. If they are going to stick with it then the future looks, as you say, brighter.
I might not like the new style F1. I might have preferred the old style, but they should not be planning for the likes of me. It's about two generations below me that they need to catch.
Fro what Liberty have said, they seem to be thinking of the long term, but then that's what they would say I suppose. But I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt until the opposite of what I hope is clear.
They've spent a lot of money to buy the commercial rights to the sport. They must think it has a bright future. Let's hope they are right.
From a purely selfish point of view, even if F1 reverted to the popularity levels of old, when you could turn up on the day at Silverstone and buy a ticket, and funding was iffy, I'd still like it if the racing was fun.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Andrew Benson tweeting about reports of BE setting up a breakaway series....
Chinny?
Edited to add it's come from Peter Windsor https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1
Who was that old bloke, can't remember his name, used to be important in F1, who, when the manufacturers suggested they might form a breakaway series rubbished the idea, laughing at the possibility of anyone being able to find funding to compete in an overcrowded market against established products? Little bloke. Used to live near a railway line.Chinny?
Edited to add it's come from Peter Windsor https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1
Edited by LaurasOtherHalf on Thursday 26th January 11:52
If what Brawn says is correct about engine manufacturers, then there is likely to be a supermarket type of engine choice for teams.
The engines will be designed with strict limitations, probably with regards bhp, revs, packaging, materials and more.
I'm not sure that this will help the likes of Merc and Ferrari.
The engines will be designed with strict limitations, probably with regards bhp, revs, packaging, materials and more.
I'm not sure that this will help the likes of Merc and Ferrari.
jsf said:
Your are very wrong.
Hearing damage occurs the moment you are exposed to levels the ear is not designed for.
There are also cumulative effects that increase the damage.
This.Hearing damage occurs the moment you are exposed to levels the ear is not designed for.
There are also cumulative effects that increase the damage.
I had hearing problems after the '85 British. I went to see a doctor and got severely reprimanded for risking my hearing. 'Would you risk your eyesight?' was one question that didn't need an answer.
I was in a firearms unit for a number of years and I always wore ear defenders when firing live rounds, but they were crude. I'm deaf in my right ear on most days and the other is running rough. In discussion with an ear doctor I was more or less told, 'What do you expect?' My protestations that I could hear perfectly well for 30 years afterwards got me another lecture.
My father was in the RA and spent six years on anti-aircraft guns. No problem with his hearing until he hit 60. Then we had to shout.
An odd thing: I cannot hear speech in situations where there is background noise - pubs, clubs, etc - and where there is loud noise, such as a cinema, it is a cacophony. Putting ear plugs in (stable doors and all that) helps me hear more clearly. Weird or what?
Look after your hearing. It is very isolating not being able to understand others. If I live to a ripe old whatsit I'll go stone deaf.
jsf said:
That's quite normal for people with reduced hearing ability Derek, the ability to filter out background noise is diminished which makes hearing what you want to very difficult. It makes social occasions very tiring for people who suffer from this because you have to concentrate much harder than you would normally.
There have been some good advancements in hearing aid technology that helps in this respect. Digital hearing aids are available that are designed to help improve that scenario.
It is common at my age I think. I went to an end of season dance at my club and all us old buggers were as far away from the DJ as we could get. If it hadn't been drizzling we'd have sat outside. It was an evening of improvised sign language, some quite entertaining, but essentially we were out of it.There have been some good advancements in hearing aid technology that helps in this respect. Digital hearing aids are available that are designed to help improve that scenario.
I think we are in a period when the owners will want to target specific problems in order to get the sport into profit.
The grid size is one thing. Costs is another. Dominance by one car might be on the agenda (although best of luck with the one constant of the sport over recent years), and they will leave matters such as circuits to run for a while.
The grid size is one thing. Costs is another. Dominance by one car might be on the agenda (although best of luck with the one constant of the sport over recent years), and they will leave matters such as circuits to run for a while.
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