RE: How Do You Solve a Problem Like Sebastien?

RE: How Do You Solve a Problem Like Sebastien?

Monday 14th November 2011

How Do You Solve a Problem Like Sebastien?

Rally GB underlines the Frenchman's dominance - here's how he does it




Over the weekend, Citroen's Sebastien Loeb won an eighth consecutive World Rally Championship drivers' title. Let's put the series' state of health and the tedium of a dominant competitor to one side for a moment so that we might give the Frenchman the credit he deserves for a remarkable achievement.

Loeb has the edge on his competition...
Loeb has the edge on his competition...
Maintaining a certain level of motivation and discipline over a decade is a feat in itself. To also retain that level of sporting sharpness is more impressive still, but to then apply these qualities over so many years without once being beaten to the championship is just out of this world. It's the same collection of virtues that made names like Schumacher, Rossi, Federer, Ali, Armstrong and Woods so iconic - although none managed a run of success as enduring as Loeb's.

Has he overcome a sufficient calibre of rival during his career to warrant comparison with such greats? I humbly think so. Finn Marcus Gronholm was a standout driver of the fiercely competitive McRae/Burns/Makinen/Sainz era, winning the world championship twice. Although Gronholm came desperately close to beating Loeb in the title race on two occasions, he just didn't ever have the measure of the Frenchman.

Loeb himself admits that always having had the fastest car in the service park has been central to his success, but we must remember that he was instrumental in their development (particularly of the C4 and the current DS3). Citroen Racing's technical director Xavier Mestelan-Pinon explains his capabilities thus: "His job during testing is to understand what is and what is not important, and to explain to us what he can feel. He understands these things, which is what makes him such a good development driver."

So where others fall off...
So where others fall off...
Much of his speed down a stage can be accredited to his incredibly detailed pacenote system. While other drivers' notes are designed to tell them how fast they can drive around a corner, Loeb's notes describe the profile of each bend in minute detail. He can then calculate how fast each corner can be taken in consideration of all the other information that's available to him; his notes aren't susceptible to variations in weather conditions, tyre wear or visibility.

Ultimately, though, Loeb's success is a direct product of his driving style and confidence. He's essentially the greatest ever tarmac specialist, but he's been able to apply his methods to all surfaces. We know that a corner on a racing circuit has an optimum braking point, turn-in point, line, power-on point and so on. The best Formula 1 drivers hit all of these points perfectly corner after corner, lap after lap.

...he keeps it pointed the right way
...he keeps it pointed the right way
Every corner on a rally stage also has a set of optimum points, but it's infinitely more difficult to hit each of them every time because there are thousands of corners to learn during a rally, rather than just 15 or so. Loeb is best able to consistently work out where these points are, then nail them.

What inevitably follows is victory. That breeds huge confidence in his own abilities and methods, which means he's capable of resisting the temptation to become more aggressive in the heat of a battle. He instead channels his competitive spirit into driving perfectly, into better hitting the optimum points on every corner.

Loeb is unique in his ability to do this. When the other drivers in the service park want to go faster, they 'push harder'. They brake later, get on the power earlier, try to carry more speed around a corner. They start to miss turn in points or run wide onto loose gravel, shedding time. When they see that Loeb has still gone faster, they believe that the Frenchman must be pushing even harder than they are. Their only solution is to push harder still, which just sees them make even more mistakes. Loeb, meanwhile, continues to drive perfectly, never leaving his comfort zone.

The result? More flamboyant drivers...
The result? More flamboyant drivers...
While Loeb wins, becomes more confident, drives 'more perfectly' and wins again, his rivals lose, try harder, drive slower and lose again. For Loeb's rivals, it's absolutely crushing. It's hard to see how these virtuous and destructive cycles can ever be broken.

Mikko Hirvonen is a fine case in point. The Ford driver came within a point and a faulty bonnet clip of beating Loeb to the 2009 drivers' title. Missing out by such a narrow margin destroyed his confidence. He has spent the following two years trying to work out why he can't get back on the pace, despite pushing harder and taking more risks than ever before.

Loeb isn't braver than Hirvonen or the others. He's just confident enough to drive perfectly.

like Hirvonen or Meeke struggle to keep up
like Hirvonen or Meeke struggle to keep up
It's actually possible to see Loeb's driving style in practice. During last weekend's Wales Rally GB, I found myself standing on an earth bank high above a stage that rounded a tight left-hander a quarter of a mile to my right, passed me with a sweeping right-hander before disappearing again a quarter of a mile to my left. Loeb tackled this sweeper in a beautiful, arcing drift, with just one brake input, three steering inputs (turn in, hold and straighten) and a constant throttle. His pursuers were typically on and off the brakes, hurling corrective lock at it and prodding at the throttle.

It's going to take an accurate replication of these principles by a very talented driver if Loeb is to be beaten in the world championship. Of course, Citroen might one year build a duff car or Loeb could suffer a string of unfortunate incidents, but in performance and consistency terms, he remains in a league of his own. He mightn't be beaten before he retires, and with a two-year contract with Citroen in place, that might just take him to 10 titles.

And he's untouchable on Tarmac
And he's untouchable on Tarmac
The eight-time world champion is responsible for rendering the flamboyant driving style of many a Finn completely outdated. For some that'll be a shame, harmful as it was to the spectacle of rallying. Loeb has forced a generation of drivers to deconstruct their driving styles and rebuild them based on circuit racing principles. He's changed the face of rallying and - for better or for worse - that's a remarkable legacy.

Author
Discussion

tbtstt

Original Poster:

215 posts

182 months

Monday 14th November 2011
quotequote all
I believe that Loeb is the right driver in the right era. As the article states his driving style is clean and tidy and is well suited to the design of the modern WRC machinery (both the 2.0L and 1.6L cars). The more mechanical and less sophisticated Group A, Group B and early World Rally Cars required a more aggressive and flamboyant driving style to get the best out of them, this isn't the case with the current crop of cars which is why I think those drivers with experience in an assortment of other cars (old and new) don't get the best out of the modern World Rally Cars in the same way as Loeb.

Loeb has stated on several occasions that he hasn't little interest in driving older rally cars and (perhaps wrongly) I don't believe they would suit his style at all.

Loeb is certainly talented, of that there is no doubt, and he has seen off some major talent in his time, however if he was in the WRC in the mid-90's, with the car designs of that era, I believe it would be a very different story. As it stands he's not though and, although others have come close again this year, they have still yet to topple Loeb. 9 in a row?...

tbtstt

Original Poster:

215 posts

182 months

Tuesday 15th November 2011
quotequote all
P I Staker said:
tbtstt said:
9 in a row?...
8. smile


He is the man at moment, no doubt.
Sorry, poor wording on my part there. I was trying to imply whether he could make it a 9th title next year. I should have just said "does anyone think he can make it his 9th title next year?" instead of trying to be clever!

P I Staker said:
I wish they had made a road going version of the WRC Xsara. The VTS is all very good, but i want a 300bhp 4wd Subaru killer. smile
Fully agree. This is one of the reasons I've never really got behind Citroen as a manufacturer. They have produced a string of championship winning rally and rallycross cars, yet Citroen haven't once acknowledged this success with an equivalent road going model.

I know there is a BIG gap between say, the Focus RS and the Focus WRC, but at least Ford have continued to produced some sort of road going version of their rally cars. Citroen gave us the "styled by Loeb" range a couple of years ago and thats it.

tbtstt

Original Poster:

215 posts

182 months

Tuesday 15th November 2011
quotequote all
EDLT said:
In his first full year in WRC he was even in the same team as McRae and Sainz, he beat both of them (along with Burns and Gronholm). He finished one point behind Solberg and 2nd in the championship.
I think the 2003 season and the time McRae and Sainz spent with the Xsara signals the point at which we could see the car design (and optimal driving style) in modern WRC had changed.

McRae was quite vocal in expressing the conflict he had with the Citroen team and his dislike of the Xsara. It was a car that suited neither his nor (to a lesser extent perhaps) Sainz driving style but was perfect for the tidy driving of Loeb.

As I mentioned in my initial post in the thread I would love to see Loeb in a Group A car (or even pre-2000 World Rally Car) against the likes of Gronholm, Sainz or even a current driver such as Hirvonen.

tbtstt

Original Poster:

215 posts

182 months

Tuesday 15th November 2011
quotequote all
Crow555 said:
Had Hirvonen won the championship this weekend, it would've been a very hollow championship win. I don't want to take away from what Hirvonen has done this season but a lot of his results, particularly later in the season were gifted by Latvala who himself has shown tremendous pace. Loeb has be quick as well as unlucky otherwise he would've had the championship sown up 3 rallies ago.
I agree. As much as I support the Ford team, I wanted to see Hirvonen win purely so someone could break Loebs dominance of the sport.

Of all the other drivers in the WRC this year Ogier has struck me as the one who was most deserving of the title. Perhaps thats the answer to the initial question posed by this article:

Q: "How Do You Solve a Problem Like Sebastien?"
A: With another Sebastian!

tbtstt

Original Poster:

215 posts

182 months

Tuesday 15th November 2011
quotequote all
marcosgt said:
Burns was very much of the methodical, considerate approach, which some people don't like because, well let's be honest, it doesn't look that exciting.
I think that neatly summarises it. I was a huge Burns fan because of where he was from (and who he drove for the year he won the Championship), but if there was ever a choice of seeing either of them in action again once more it would be McRae every time.

Some very valid points you raise with regards to the F1 comparison as well. Loeb certainly hasn't run away with the WRC title this year in the same fashion that Vettel has in F1 and, despite the fact the WRC isn't at the level it was 10 years ago, it (to me) is still head and shoulders above F1 in terms of competition and excitement. F1 has always been the FiA's baby though and thats the one that always receives the biggest push from them.

As you rightly say we have a full season from MINI next year, VW making a showing and a couple of other manufacturers with plans brewing (apparently).

300bhp/ton said:
Still love CORR too, but sadly haven't seen it on the telly in quite a while.
CORR finished a couple of years ago. I think public interest dwindled and it ran out of finance. Pity as some of the racing was mad.

Rallycross is the latest motorsport to get a foothold in the US, I hope it fares better.

tbtstt

Original Poster:

215 posts

182 months

Tuesday 15th November 2011
quotequote all
marcosgt said:
Group B cars were quick, but does anyone have any figures to compare like with like? I suspect tyre technology has made the stage times much quicker.
I'm sure I read an article online that covered it (will have a Google search and try and find it!) indicating that the last of the 2.0L World Rally Cars are faster point-to-point than their Group B equivalents.

Although the stated BHP level of the 2.0L World Rally Cars is far lower than the Group B monsters (restricted to 300 BHP), some of the 2.0L World Rally Cars developed silly amounts of torque (well in excess of 450 ft. lbs) which is more then some of the Group B cars managed.

Power (as the statement goes) is nothing without control, and the modern cars are not only developing massive levels of power, but successfully putting it down as well. Couple that with developments in suspension and brakes its not hard to see why the modern cars ends up being faster. Of course although the modern World Rally Car is quicker point-to-point I know which one is going to be more spectacular to watch... wink

I don't know how the current crop of 1.6T World Rally Cars compare. I have seen them associated with figures of "around" 300 BHP (like the 2.0L WRC machines) but I've no idea how what sort of torque levels the 1.6T engines are producing or how the performance of the smaller World Rally Cars compares to the previous generation of cars.



tbtstt

Original Poster:

215 posts

182 months

Wednesday 16th November 2011
quotequote all
zeb said:
dear me what a truly ignorant comment. Not world champion by accident
Technically speaking Burns was the World Champion in the end DUE to an accident. If McRae hadn't been driving like a loon in Wales 2001 and binned it, he'd have won the title that year.

(Thats not to take anything away from Burns Championship. smile)