1990s Bentley vs Lexus LS430

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I'm posting this here as well as the RR / Bentley sub-forum as hopefully the topic will reach a greater number of folk and I'll get some good info.

...Looking for some opinions and info: I am considering replacing my 97 LS 400 with a 1990s Bentley or an LS 430.

For my proposed budget of around £10,000 for a Bentley or £6,000 for an LS 430, I think I can get what I want and I'll be in no rush either, so can look around and find the right car. The questions are over Safety and MPG.

Safety: I can't find much info on the Bentley, but would guess the size, mass and build would make it a safe place to be in the event of a collision but what is there in the way of airbags and other items the Lexus would have: Stability / traction controls? (my current car doesn't have these).

MPG: I'm getting 28 MPG from my Lexus and would guess this would be worse with a Bentley but how much so? most of my miles are motorway.

As far as servicing costs go, I can accept these would be higher.

I can guess at the MPG but would be interested in real life experiences but the safety aspect interests me more.

All information gratefully recieved.

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Thanks for the input guys.

300bhp/ton said:

28mpg average from an LS400 presume you must spend 95% of your time at 50-55mph on the motorway. Can't see that being accurate otherwise.

I really do get an average of 28 mpg. This is from the method of comparing miles done to litres used from full to full, It's nearly always 28 mpg. 90% of my driving is a 45 mile commute from Northampton to Luton and 90% of that is motorway / dual carriageway. On the part of the motorway where there are no road works I drive "normal motorway speeds" in lane 3, the rest of the journey is around 55 mph. The fuel economy really suffers if I use the car around town. Probably 23 MPG if I have been commuting and doind a lot of town journeys.

I don't expect to crash but when I look at the newer LS, they do seem to have a lot in the way of passenger protection, it's not me I worry about but some clown driving into me from the side, etc.

Regarding the servicing, I would probably be buying to keep for quite a few years, so the SH would be an issue for me when I buy but not too much from then onwards, I would tackle very routine stuff myself and have an Bentley indy to do the rest. Good point about the exhaust also.

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Thanks Gents.

I currently do 15,000 miles per year. That costs me £300 per month in petrol. If I bought a Bentley and managed 16 MPG I would be paying £500 per month.

Allow an extra few thousand for maintenance per year, maybe another £200 per month on top. So before anything else: £4800 a year extra. Thats a good holiday or a cheap Boxter, a fantastic Hi-Fi...

All this I know and can just about accept but the Bentley would have to be a superior ride, which I have doubts about although the overall package would be nice to have. I couldn't accept having another car, the only thing that gets me to work some days is a serene commute in the Lexus. So putting the running costs aside for a moment, I have to know that a Bentley would be safer. The stability and traction control aspects don't really worry me, whilst I would be aiming to 'make good progress', I don't feel the need to drive like a loon. As far as I can see, driver and possibly passenger airbags are the only things fitted.

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g3org3y said:

MUDGUTZ said:

So putting the running costs aside for a moment, I have to know that a Bentley would be safer.

You seem to be quite keen on the whole 'safety' thing. If that's the case, I suspect a generic new 4 door eurobox would provide better passenger safety than a 90s Lexus or Bentley.

Not quite, to be clearer, a 1990s Bentley or a 2005 ish LS 430. It's a case of being able to justify a car which would be more expensive to run provided it would give good protection in a collision; if an LS 430 is a safer car to be in by a significant margin, then it would be the winner (as we see above) as it would be much cheaper to run all round. If a Bentley is almost as safe, then I can just about justify the higher running costs.

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Thanks for all the input so far guys, this makes for an interesting topic.

I'm probably within that group of over 40s who have plenty of NCD and can take the hit on fuel, who start to look at cars they previously thought beyond their budget.

Here are some figures to throw into the conversation: If I put off this purchase for, say, 3 years, the money I would have saved by running an old Lexus (just fuel and maintenance alone against a 1990s Bentley) could amount to nearly £15,000, so at that point I might be in the market for a much newer model, circa £25,000 then rather than £10,000 now. This must change the whole position, so I could be looking for a much newer model, such as an Arnarge for example. At that age, I would be happier that what I was in was as safe as required. Obviously, one could play this game forever and that wouldn't be the point but it makes me think about it. Why run a 1995 car when in three years I can run a 2000 car which is a whole different vehicle from the ground up.

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From this one for sale: 2002 Arnarge


ABS/EBD
Driver and passenger airbags
Driver and passenger side airbags
ESP + MSR + ASR
Front and rear thorax airbag system
Front seatbelt pretensioners
Full size curtain airbags
HBA (Hydraulic Brake Assist)

These are the sort of safety features that I'm talking about.

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inman999 said:

I'm still amazed you can get 28MPG out of a LS400.

I could barely get that drafting behind a large lorry.

When I first got the car, I discovered a problem that in order to try to solve, involved new plugs, leads, distributor caps, etc. The car has 165,000 miles on it now and runs really well. I'm no slouch on the motorway and have run it on normal unleaded, VPower and now Tesco Momentum (which seems to be the best) but I'm getting a fairly consistent 28 MPG. I think if I was sensible, I could manage 30 MPG.

The whole story of the fault it has makes interesting reading and in on the LOC forums. I would post the link but I'm not sure if I can do this. The whole car is stock.

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tgr said:

There's no way on earth the Bentley would be superior to the Lexus in safety terms. So the question becomes is it sufficiently safe for you? If you buy the Bentley it will be an emotional decision. All logic points in the direction of the Lexus. Only you can decide whether you're happy to accept the compromises of a Bentley because... it's a Bentley.

It may be worth waiting until you can afford an Arnage from the point of view of safety.

In my view

I think you have hit the nail on the head.

On a side note, I was looking at a couple of cars on the web and found this one, which looks great until you get to picture number 6 of 9: Check out the steering wheel, it looks like the leather is lifting in the centre and also like a couple of others I have seen, doesn't look to great on the rim. Maybe it's just a bad example and they actually wear well but my 165,000 mile Lexus is in better condition in this respect. Obviously it could just be me being subjective and the advert does say: "HERE WE HAVE"...

Are the older ones harder wearing?

Edited by MUDGUTZ on Saturday 6th October 16:22

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jonah35 said:

why do you want the bentley?

wouldn't a more modern 730d on a 2006 plate be a better bet?

if i could have either regardless of cost i'd have the ls430 for better mpg, better build quality, more reliable, more mpg and a better car imho.

Thanks, this is a good question and in attempting to answer it, I may get to the bottom of this quandry and bring something more to the debate:

1) Because (Bentleys of that era) are British
2) Because it sticks two fingers up to the Green, Prius-driving Communists
3) Because I love big cars and am able to make up for my lack of insecurity by driving one
4) Because a Bentley does all of the above in one package
5) To quote Derestrictor:

Derestrictor said:

Whilst plebs may decry it on the grounds of fatuous stereotyping, the truth is these old crates represent the end of something broadly analogue and unapologetically imperfect but equally, magical.

Very few cars can deliver remotely the same sense of imperious tingle.

If they were a form of domestic heating, the three-box Bentleys from 1980-98 would be the most magnificent, grandiose, roaring, open wood burning fires and your chimneys would billow like the Mallard at 125 mph.

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HowMuchLonger said:

MUDGUTZ said:

From this one for sale: 2002 Arnarge


ABS/EBD
Driver and passenger airbags
Driver and passenger side airbags
ESP + MSR + ASR
Front and rear thorax airbag system
Front seatbelt pretensioners
Full size curtain airbags
HBA (Hydraulic Brake Assist)

These are the sort of safety features that I'm talking about.

How on earth is that so cheap.

You don't happen to live near Berrywood Rd do you?

...Sometimes, the Family Seat is in that area, most of the time I reside across the road from The Regency Club

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Rushmore said:

@Everyone:

Someone wants a Bentley and you keep suggesting German barges (btw i am waiting for someone to suggest an MX-5)???

@OP:

WHY do you want a Bentley - that is still unclear to me?! Do you like that particular shape? Or the brand in general?

The SZ-series cars are quite a matter of personal taste. The post-1995MY cars in in subdued colours with light leather can look halfway decent. They are anachronistic, brutal, not pleasant to the eye, women hate them, they are awkward to maneuvre in car parks. And still, they are provocative, charming, iron-cast, Ye Olde England (Denis Thatcher etc).

Is that really the right car for you? Does it suit your lifestyle? You will have difficulties to impress people with one of these - a Conti GT will do that job much better.

I have always likes big cars

I love the idea of a big, British car

I love the idea of a big, British car than can deliver effortless power and swallow up huge distances with contempt.

A while back I has on my way home from work, knowing that I would be doing the return journey within 10 hours, it would have been easier to get a hotel room and get some rest. As I joined the M1, the traffic slowed down and, were in another car, I would have instantly regretted the descision to head home for 8 hours when that involved 2 hours+ on the motorway. Because I was in the LS400, 'everything was OK'. A Bentley would do this for me but with a little more style.

Along with other things it's partly all the reasons given above plus the fact that I guess I want to own one as much as drive one. Part of the charm is the fact that if I have to drive 15,000 miles per year, I want something great to do that in. The LS430 represents this but a Bentley from the 90s could do that for me as well, if not better. The idea of a second car for the trip to work and back just does not appeal to me. Some folk look forward to work each day. I'm not one of them but I do look forward to the trip there (and back)and the only way I can progress from my current car is either 'more of the same' (LS 430) or 'similar yet more' (Bentley).

On the subject of a Continental GT: When they first were around, I though they were great but now, in my eyes they look crass, uncouth and sadly not to my taste, as they probably fit the bill. 90s Continental yes, Continental GT, no.

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Rushmore said:

Ok.

...It is an old-fashioned car, you will need to get used to it.

You're not wrong, I had a look at one this afternoon. Basic inside but quite nice and in a way 'minimalistic'.

I'll keep up the research.

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Just a quick question: Why are some earlier cars referred to as Red or Green label? I thought this was meant to distinguish between the Arnages with a Bentley engine or BMW unit: eBay Bentley

I'm still researching this BTW...