Thursday 15th November 2012

Where Jag went wrong

How Jaguar lost it post E-Type and why the F-Type is a return to form, by the firm's celebrated former test driver

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As you might have guessed from the name, the new Jaguar F-Type is pitched as a return to sports car greatness for the firm.

The bar was set by the Le Mans winning C-Type and D-Type of the 1950s, raised higher by the glitz of the '150mph' E-Type the following decade, and then knocked off by the portly XJS from 1975. So what happened?

Dewis gives PH's Gibbs the low-down

Blame the success of the E-Type, America and the stinginess of Jaguar founder William Lyons, says the company's famed former test driver Norman Dewis.

You can date the moment Jaguar swung away from its sports car path: October 13, 1956, when Jaguar officially stopped racing. "Lyons said to me one day, 'Dewis, you're spending too much time racing and not enough on production'. And that was it, we stopped," Dewis tells PistonHeads. "He would not increase the time to cope with both - he was very tight with the money."

Happily the E-type launched in 1961 was based on the race-winning D-type and kept much of that car's sporting genes. The independent rear suspension, disc brakes, that wonderfully slippery aerodynamic shape, the absence of a separate chassis - all these meant it could be called a sports car without fear of contradiction.

XJS spoke better American than English

And it was hugely popular. "Everybody wanted it, especially the Americans. The Americans went barmy over it. We couldn't make enough," says Dewis.

The racers clamoured for lightweight versions and Jaguar's sporting crown stayed on.

But Lyons became dependent on the dollar. "By the time the XJS came out our main market was America - 75 per cent of production went there," says Dewis.

And that meant giving them what they asked for. "They said, although we like the E-T

ype, it's a little bit small inside. They wanted a sports car, but with automatic transmission, power steering... They controlled our style and shape."

Pretty soon the view of car buyers this side of the pond were all but dismissed. "Take brakes. I'd say they're okay for America, but we'll have to change them for Europe. He'd say, 'Dewis, I'm not bothered about Europe. Why do I need to bother about Europe?'"

New F-type will get a manual, eventually

These days the US is still Jaguar's number one market and yes, when it goes on sale early next year, the F-Type won't be offered with a manual gearbox. But the company has said there is a manual in development and the car certainly looks every inch how a modern Jaguar sports car should look. There was even talk last year that Jaguar might return to top-flight Le Mans racing.

Dewis is impressed. "This is getting Jaguar to where it always should be. A good saloon car and a good sports car."

[DonkeyApple]

And it was hugely popular. "Everybody wanted it, especially the Americans. The Americans went barmy over it. We couldn't make enough," says Dewis

And if that is the case then they comprehensively failed to price it correctly, the kind of gross inefficiency that leads you with insufficient free funds to continue development.

[DonkeyApple]

I always thought the XJS was a great car but then I was never burdoned with the need to cling to the past or compare it to a completely different car that had gone before, had become boring, fat and out of date.

Much of the E-Type drivel spewed today is by unrealistic dreamers. There is no doubt that they were great cars, and iconic today, but by the 70s they were woefully out of date and no one but spivs wanted much to do with them.

The reality is that the E Type has been a millstone around Jaguar's neck for decades such was its greatness but the fact remains that the XJS and the XJ6 offered genuine luxo barge, English motoring for many people who wanted something different but affordable. And where Jaguar are today is wonderful to see, finally freeing themselves of the shackles of 60s nostalgia and boardroom faggotry.

[DonkeyApple]

Whiters said:

cml said:

...The XJS is a fantastic car. It's not an E-Type, or a sports car, its a GT. The looks are distinctive. In a world of cars carefully crafted not to scare anybody away, its a refreshing change. You don't mistake one for anything else. It's brave and a bit silly - all that bonnet for a start. And it has buttresses! Time has been kind I think, and it looks better than it ever has. It is also a long distance cruiser par excellence...

I agree. It's ageing very well and could never be called bland as someone said earlier. Perhaps it's my age but when I was a wee boy the E-Type was only just starting to move out of the old hat, tatty smoker territory, and the XJS looked great by comparison.

Again an age thing (and completely subjective) but the earlier E-Types always irritated me for not filling their arches, despite a (very) beautiful body. A sports car just shouldn't look that under-wheeled. Eagle have done a good job in rectifying this in recent years. As for the Series III, I'd have an XJS over that any day of the week (in particular a late 80's pre-facelift).

I have to say that tho is my view. The XJS was a stunning GT.

The E Type an important sports car. But as you say the series 1 had an odd looking track, the 2+2 seriously ugly and the last ones bloated tat covered in ruinous rubber bumpers.

Jaguar spent 30 years listening to and being frightened of people incapable of looking forward, fearful of the future and people terrified of the power of the US sales.

And look: the moment Jaguar ditch these people from their organisation and stick two fingers up at unprofitable and pointless customers they suddenly break their shackles and deliver a range of cars that are right up to date, no sad visual laments of the past and at the same time all on a heavily restricted budget.

Personally, I see nothing to be gained from comparing the F Type to the E. it's just pandering to the people who will never be satisfied. It's a fantastic looking car and has absolutely no need to be referenced to an old car.

[DonkeyApple]

Pr1964 said:

Apologies for my ranting

I just get very frustrated that there are so few cars which look special, when companies "Jag Aston Martin Renault" who should be doing special and just do Bland I feel a rant is justified.

Beauty? It must be that many of us have been looking at blandmobiles for so long that we are either devoid of visual perception or we have just so little to compare exciting to that an air intake here and a crease there together with a slim headlight and it appears many go weak at the knees.

I maintain my view that the F-type is a very tame design with the wrong influences and a missed opportunity.

Risk taking today is like corporate politics keep it quiet …. Sushhhhhhhhh don’t tell them they’ve got it wrong or as you’ll be kicked out the door and that’s probably why we see Safe rather than Beautiful or Bonkers ……. All design by committee.

Design by committee would never have resulted in the E-type only Ferrari appear capable of New Beauty sure they make mistakes "ie 360 jelly mould" they often get it right and that results in visual pleasure.



IMO recent non Bland
Merc SLS “modern day interpretation it’s the direction Jaguar needed to go in”
Bmw Bangle M5 Z4 3 “marmite but of the moment and imo they now work”
RR Evoque "though 100% not my cuppa at least RR tried but ended up with a tonka car"
Ferrari 458 “genius”
Jag XJ “though it’s got a big mouth up front, from behind its kinda thunderbirds special”
Citroen DS3 “the only car in their lineup worthy of the citroen badge.”

All F1 cars look very similar and it is because of regulations. It is also the case that any changes in F1 tend to be incremental as all the massive, game changing advances have been made back in the 50s/60s etc.

This also pertains to road cars. Legislation that differs across continents must be adheared to in order to sell across continents and so this does restrict hugely the design options.

At the same time all the big 'shape' changes have really been made. All a manufacturer can do now is tweak these shapes in places and combine them differently to try and make something different.

Now, to agree with your view, there is certainly an element of corporate leverage preventing firms from taking avantguard risks with mainstream models but we do see them breaking out with 'specials' etc.

And amongst all this is the simple fact that the majority of humans like the idea of standing out from the crowd but in a generally mellow way. Think bespoke suit versus a Timmy Mallet outfit. Which is more popular?

The E-Type was a singular moment in history, a well proportioned shape not hampered by significant regulation and some first time uses of under the skin technology for road cars. But, by the end of its life regulation had ruined its lines, the market was bored of its lines and no new technology had been added of any significance.

Jaguar very sensibly realised in the early 70s that the section of the market (youngsters back then) that wanted 2 seater sports cars was very small and not very wealthy but that the demographic that wanted a sporty GT was much larger and much more wealthy. And this has remained very much the case until the Baby Boomer demographic who had missed out on the little 2 seater sports cars in their youth due to lack of funds found themselves with the time and money in the mid late 90s to suddenly spike demand for these types of cars and so the MX5, Boxster et all all suddenly took a significant share of the market.

Now look to 2012 and look at which group has the money to spend on big ticket car purchases and their age? It is fundamentally the same group of Baby Boomers but they are 10/15 years older and have had their dalliance with the sports car and with aching bones and an appetite for luxury they are back to spending their money in the GT sector.

The real problem with making a small 2 seater sportscar today is who is going to buy it in enough numbers to make it more viable to build than another type of car like a GT or SUV?

Who buys little 2 seaters? It's not the BRICs (one of the most crucial markets for the next 10 years), it's no longer the Americans, they bouyed the little 2 seater UK industry in the 50s and 60s with demands in the post war environment for something exciting but they now demand larger and more luxurious cars. So this essentially leaves Europe and the UK. The market in the UK is much more relevent than most of Europe but both markets are bust. The younger sections of both communities will not be throwing money at frivolous sports car purchases going forward as they have no money and little ability to earn such excess funds.

The simple fact is that in the current economic climate a car such as this will sell more than any more 'sports' orientated model.

[DonkeyApple]

Pr1964 said:

I agree with much of what you say but you've forgotten the current biggest market the Asian mkt.

That's a market which likes a badge but it likes crazy stying even more "a la 458" imagine if Ferrari had made a generic car like the F-type .......

It would have been

Jag Aston etc need to grow some balls and make some exciting looking cars not just the occasional specials.

The European Mkt is pretty much dead ...... a zombie mkt …
Chinese etc want Pagani 458 even the Veyron in an odd way is too tame for them.

If Jag Aston etc don't know that they deserve to go bust....

Companies like JLR will be extensively evaluating the BRIC markets, such is there vitalimportance for sales growth while the West is essentially dormant.

They will have tested what these markets want. Most wealthy BRIC individuals actually want to emulate the style of the West. It is why so many London, Paris, Milan brands have exploded in these markets. Somewhere like China has no 'wealth' cues from their living past and so the newly wealthy seek to define their style by looking to the West.

Sure, bling is important and you can see this in the way watch makers have made their watches more chunky in the last decade where slimness used to be the statement of style or added vast numbers of diamonds to appeal to this new taste but in automotive terms firms like Aston, Jag, Range Rover add bling while being very very careful not to damage style and image as these last two factors are very important.

I don't think that the key demographics in the BRIC states want extravagant styling as much as you think. Of course the brash youth may but they don't have any money, the older groups with wealth want what firms like JLR are giving them.

[DonkeyApple]

Pr1964 said:

DonkeyApple said:

Companies like JLR will be extensively evaluating the BRIC markets, such is there vitalimportance for sales growth while the West is essentially dormant.

If they are at the evaluation process they've missed the boat because the Germans and the Italians have had their towels on the sun loungers for ages now.

Primary evaluations will be historic as the car is now here. But secondary evaluations would obviously be ongoing in any businesses looking to continue to sell and expand sales.

The Germans full stop have beaten the English to almost all the new markets. It isn't just an automative issue but one that impacts our entire exports element of the UK economy.

While the Brits were sitting in the UK believing the world would come to them or unable to fund speculative development of factories or find labour capable of pressing buttons the Germans wer building factories with speculative funding, hiring manual labour of sufficient education and flying all over the world opening markets.

There is also the issue that we do not actually respect, train or educate sales roles in the UK unlike almost any other developed nation when the sad reality is that without professional sales teams the best products in the world are not going to compete as they should against inferior competition, let alone equals.

The only UK industry which has out gunned the Germans at their own game has been banking and finance but luckily we are killing that off as swiftly as possible.