Nearside and offside: Why?
Discussion
Hello,
We've all heard of nearside and offside of a car, and some of us even know which is which. But does anyone know why these terms got invented when we already had the universal and much more simple "left" and "right"?
I've had a quick google, but the results all seem to defining the terms using varying degrees of confusion, rather than explaining why anyone would invent such a system in the first place.
Now I've spent enough time with mechanics to know that confusion about this sort of thing is exactly what you look for before slipping an extra 80% to the bill for reconditioning the frimblebleem housing and cranocking the rumble guides*, but other than that what was wrong with left and right?
I've asked people about this, and they all say that left and right is confusing because no one knows whether you mean left as you look at the car** or left as you sit in the car. And I could understand it if those same people got confused about which side the steering wheel is on in a LHD car, which they don't. It's the left side, obviously.
Now nearside is obviously the side nearest thedriver kerb, but which is the nearside of a GDM but UK registered E30 M3 parked facing on-coming traffic in Paris? Whatever the answer I'm pretty sure it'll be defined in terms of left and right, so why introduce such a ridiculous pair of terms?
I've heard people blaming the people who make cars for this deliberate confusion, but the fact is that the car industry has been using the international standard of left and right for decades. It's simpler, because you don't have to label half the parts in your factory wrong depending on which country the car they get fitted to will finally end up in. This is why OEM parts are labeled with little Ls and Rs.
So, nearside and offside:
- Terms invented to create confusion in order to make simple things seem more complex and therefore make money from them?
- Terms left over from horse-riding/sailing/fishing that somehow still get crammed in to the vocabulary despite not being relevant?
- Terms that are actually simpler the using left or right, but for reasons that are too complex to explain to people who don't already understand them (such as people trying to order a spare wing for a Mustang parked upside down in a garage in Okinawa at 05:59 of 30th July 1978***)?
- Something else.
Over to the enormo-brains of PH to clear this up. I can't hear or read either term without thinking someones about to charge me 500 quid for bleeding the chassis fluid and rotating my brakes.
* the offside ones are always a pain to replace because you have to lower the grindle casting which is always tangled up in the petril snoot lines, plus you need a 13.5mm box-ended ratchet monkey to get it loose.
** which could even be the roof if you happen to be laying down and feeling particularly obtuse.
*** yes, OK, so that's a tiny number of people and chances are they've resolved the issue since then, but you get the point, surely? It's a right hand wing, it that makes any difference.
We've all heard of nearside and offside of a car, and some of us even know which is which. But does anyone know why these terms got invented when we already had the universal and much more simple "left" and "right"?
I've had a quick google, but the results all seem to defining the terms using varying degrees of confusion, rather than explaining why anyone would invent such a system in the first place.
Now I've spent enough time with mechanics to know that confusion about this sort of thing is exactly what you look for before slipping an extra 80% to the bill for reconditioning the frimblebleem housing and cranocking the rumble guides*, but other than that what was wrong with left and right?
I've asked people about this, and they all say that left and right is confusing because no one knows whether you mean left as you look at the car** or left as you sit in the car. And I could understand it if those same people got confused about which side the steering wheel is on in a LHD car, which they don't. It's the left side, obviously.
Now nearside is obviously the side nearest the
I've heard people blaming the people who make cars for this deliberate confusion, but the fact is that the car industry has been using the international standard of left and right for decades. It's simpler, because you don't have to label half the parts in your factory wrong depending on which country the car they get fitted to will finally end up in. This is why OEM parts are labeled with little Ls and Rs.
So, nearside and offside:
- Terms invented to create confusion in order to make simple things seem more complex and therefore make money from them?
- Terms left over from horse-riding/sailing/fishing that somehow still get crammed in to the vocabulary despite not being relevant?
- Terms that are actually simpler the using left or right, but for reasons that are too complex to explain to people who don't already understand them (such as people trying to order a spare wing for a Mustang parked upside down in a garage in Okinawa at 05:59 of 30th July 1978***)?
- Something else.
Over to the enormo-brains of PH to clear this up. I can't hear or read either term without thinking someones about to charge me 500 quid for bleeding the chassis fluid and rotating my brakes.
* the offside ones are always a pain to replace because you have to lower the grindle casting which is always tangled up in the petril snoot lines, plus you need a 13.5mm box-ended ratchet monkey to get it loose.
** which could even be the roof if you happen to be laying down and feeling particularly obtuse.
*** yes, OK, so that's a tiny number of people and chances are they've resolved the issue since then, but you get the point, surely? It's a right hand wing, it that makes any difference.
JustNeil said:
Left could mean passenger side, or drivers side if you are looking from in front of the car, but nearside is always nearside.
mini1380cc said:
left or right can be confused by which direct you are looking at the car. Nearside can only be nearside.
Reading the OP is for nerds.Captain Muppet said:
I've asked people about this, and they all say that left and right is confusing because no one knows whether you mean left as you look at the car or left as you sit in the car. And I could understand it if those same people got confused about which side the steering wheel is on in a LHD car, which they don't. It's the left side, obviously.
Now nearside is obviously the side nearest thedriver kerb, but which is the nearside of a GDM but UK registered E30 M3 parked facing on-coming traffic in Paris? Whatever the answer I'm pretty sure it'll be defined in terms of left and right, so why introduce such a ridiculous pair of terms?
So the nearside of the GDM but UK registered E30 M3 parked facing on-coming traffic in Paris is? I'm not sure, and it's my question. I'm pretty bloody sure which side of it is the left side though, it's the side with the steering wheel.Now nearside is obviously the side nearest the
Edited by Captain Muppet on Thursday 17th January 13:16
marshalla said:
The nearside is the side of the horse nearest you when you mount. Conventionally, and almost exclusively, this is the left.
Chatting to some horsey people over lunch that does seem to be where it comes from. There was some speculation that it stops your sword getting in the way.It's not a great fit for cars though, as you almost exclusively mount a car from the side with the steering wheel.
Motorcycles are mostly mounted from the left though. Weird.
braddo said:
Captain Muppet said:
Chatting to some horsey people over lunch that does seem to be where it comes from. There was some speculation that it stops your sword getting in the way.
Wouldn't the sword have always been on the person's right hand side which would make mounting a horse from the right hand side easier (i.e. not needing to get the sword over the back of horse)? Not that I ride horses, or carry swords, so it is of little importance to me!In any case, using 'nearside' and 'offside' for cars is peculiar to the UK and a f
king stupid convention. 
Also we'd noticed than any film in which a character has a sword on their back they are never shown drawing it unless it's a really short one - you can't draw a sword fixed to your shoulder that's longer than your arm.
kambites said:
Captain Muppet said:
You carry your sword on the opposite side to your dominant hand, unless you want to risk hacking your own kidney out. I used to fence, and we'd muck about with this sort of thing.
I'd like to see you cut your kidney out drawing an Épée. 
I once got a finger cut to the bone with a Sabre, even though it was a regulation blunt springy one. Never put your ungloved hand in front of your body.
doogz said:
GroundEffect said:
We also use the carline X,Y,Z coordinates. X = length of car, Y = width of car, Z = down a wormhole (aka height).
Do you have some sort of centre point you work from or measure things from?We measure up from the baseline, forward from the aft perpendicular, and left or right from the centreline.
Zero for engines is crank centreline on the rear face of block.
HustleRussell said:
I'm the only one here who actually likes 'N/S' and 'O/S' then? seems pretty natural to me, although when I have used them in conversation it almost invariably results on 'which side is that?' sort of questions. I put that down to their stupidity rather than my excessive car geekery though.
Excellent, so which side is the nearside of a GDM but UK registered E30 M3 parked facing on-coming traffic in Paris?Also which is the neaside of two consecutive chassis numbered E30 M3s one of which is GDM and the other of which is UKDM? I'm pretty sure the nearside of the UK one is left, and the German one is right.
Which would mean that you'd need to order a nearside door from Germany to replace your offside door in the UK. Although as soon as you unbolt it from the car it's just a right hand door, because the whole nearside/offside thing can't cope with parts, only cars when parked next to a kerb with a clearly defined side of the road for normal travel.
Of course the label on the door would say "R" on it, because BMW are a global company that don't use horse terms to needlessly double their stock of spare parts.
It's odd that no one at all says that the UK drives on the nearside, we all drive on the left.
Although as you say, I may just be too stupid to understand the thing.
kambites said:
Out of interest, which side would the Germans have mounted their horses from?
The left, assuming that the majority of their sword using horse riders were right handed.Sadly nearside is defined as "the side of a vehicle nearest the kerb" rather than the horse usage which just means the left side of the horse.
Obviously the vehicle definition is mental, especially if applied to a horse drawn carriage used in a country that drives on the right, in which case the nearside of the horse would be on the offside of the vehicle, even though all of their lefts would be on the left.
bqf said:
Isn't nearside the drivers side?
It depends, hence my hatred of the stupid naming convention.It's the driver's side of a LHD car in the UK.
Basically the nearside is the same as the side of the road you drive on in that country (although the definition is really badly worded so even that isn't always true), so with a normal RHD car in the UK it's the left. Unless you go on holiday to France, in which case it's the right.
It's anyone's guess which side is the nearside on a ferry, which is why it's so important not to to crash on a ferry as no one will be able to fill out an insurance form correctly.
I always use "left" and "right" because anyone who can't get that right is going to have to be so stupid they spend quite a bit of their life with painful feet trying to work out why their gloves don't fit. Plus "left" and "right" are the international standard for automotive engineering.
Face for Radio said:
People inventing scenarios to poke holes in a system that they don't like is a bit boring.
If you speak to anybody in the motor trade, or anybody with a brain, in this country and refer to nearside or offside, then they know automatically where you mean.
The point is the automotive industry uses right and left. If the people who design, engineer and manufacture cars use a standard I'm a little confused as to why people would use a horse riding term instead.If you speak to anybody in the motor trade, or anybody with a brain, in this country and refer to nearside or offside, then they know automatically where you mean.
It didn't bother me until I did some work for a Teir 1 supplier in 1995, which was when I found out that OEMs don't use horsey terms, they use a system that always works instead.
Frik said:
Captain Muppet said:
Zero for vehicles is is mid-point of the front axle at ground level.
Zero for engines is crank centreline on the rear face of block.
Zero for motorbikes is through the crankline regardless IIRC.Zero for engines is crank centreline on the rear face of block.
And whoever opened the XYZ orientation arguement - I will hunt you down and kill you.
busta said:
But which end is number 1? That requires the same or more knowledge than knowing offside and nearside.
Number 1 cylinder (or rotor for wankels) is the one at the "front" of the engine, ie the one furthest from the block to gearbox face. So pretty easy* to spot just by looking at the engine and also not dependant on seeing the car the engine goes in, or even knowing which way round the engine is mounted, unlike naming a headlight correctly as either "nearside" or "offside"** without it being fitted to the car (or indeed knowing which country it'll be in most of the time once fitted).Main bearings, cam caps and the like are also numbered starting at the front and working back.
However with V engines it gets tricky, because some manufacturers start at 1 for the furthest forward cylinder, then "2" is the next furthest back, so on the other bank, Some manufacturers call "2" the next cylinder on that bank.
Typically the banks will be "left" for the one that's on the left if viewed from behind, and "right" for the one that's on the right. People who can't get this sort of thing the correct way round will also not be able to tell which side another person keeps their right arm.
Engines without two seperate banks may use "left" and "right" or "inlet" and "exhaust" depending on layout. Again, these are pretty obvious.
And there are random exceptions, obviously. Like the ford V8 that starts with cylinder 5.
Not really a problem unless you are trying to order just a number 2 HT lead, rather than a set. And also not the sort of thing untrained people ever have to cope with - I've never had a MOT failure sheet with a cylinder number on it, but I have had several with "nearside" and "farside"*** on them.
* Easy given that the only people who need to tell which end is the front are also people who have already identified a need to do something on one specific cylinder, and therefore must have a degree of automotive knowledge.
** Weird that the opposite of "nearside" isn't "farside", and the opposite off "offside" isn't "onside".
*** Sorry, I mean "starboard"
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff