Brand New Citroen DS5 - plenty of faults and bad paint job
Discussion
Hello and thank you for your time
After much consideration and a crazy amount of courage I have decided not to buy a Seat Leon Touring FR but a brand new Citroen DS5 2.0 HDI manual. Very soon this proofed to be a huge mistake.
The car was purchase by finance, PCP. The OTR price of the vehicle was 17000 pounds, heavily discounted from 25000 pounds. This big discount of 8000 pounds made me choose this car. Big mistake. The Conditional Credit Agreement was signed on 17-04-2014.
Also relevant is the fact that this was a distance selling purchase. This vehicle was advertised via AutoTrader home page and all the correspondence between me and the dealer (***************** - Stourbridge) was via phone or email.
I have recorded each phone conversation with dealer representatives, I kept the email correspondence between us and also I have detailed and relevant video recordings about how the car behaves.
Friday (21.03.2014) I took delivery of a brand new Citroen DS5 which I bought with finance by PCP provided by Barclays Partner Finance. As soon as I drove the car from the dealer I've noticed Steering and Braking faults with the car. The most obvious defect was the fact the car suffered from a bad wheel alignment, the steering wheel stayed all the time lean to the left and the car was pulling constantly left, no matter of the camber of the road.
I immediately turned to the dealer to report the issues with the car. The dealer briefly inspected the car and they told me that they used some kind of brake spray to clean the brakes and also test drove the car and informed me that the car is fault free. This seemed very weird to me because no spray cleaner in this world will cure a bad wheel alignment but I was too tired to argue (been travel for 4h by train to reach Dealer's location)
I've set up again on the road and I noticed that nothing has really changed with the car's issues, obviously.
When I arrived home (more than 140 miles away) I have contacted the dealer by phone explaining that none of the problems with the car have been fixed. I've been told that on Monday (24.03.2014) I will be contacted by the Dealer's Service Manager who will discuss with me this matter.
Nobody contacted me and I decided to take the car to an independent and reputable tracking specialist. The wheel alignment job print out clearly shows that the car's tracking was off.
This was not the only problem with my brand new car.
Here is full list of faults:
1. Bad wheel alignment and tracking causing the vehicle to constantly pull to the left.
2. Steering wheel was off centred, it stays leaned towards passenger side.
3. Steering wheel vibrates at motorways cruise speeds 60 – 70 mph.
4. Steering wheel shakes under braking.
5. The car is very unstable on uneven and slightly bumpy roads, especially when braking, causing the car to change trajectory towards incoming traffic or pavement.
6. The steering wheel is twitching and jerking back and forth every time the front wheel goes over small bumps and cracks on the surface of the road, also causing the car to change trajectory towards incoming traffic or pavement.
7. Miss coloured front bumper – painted in a different shade of grey.
8. Rattling noise coming from the right hand side rear passenger door.
Tuesday ,25.03.2014, morning I've contacted the dealer and told them that I'm willing to return the car to them so they can have a full check of the car. They agreed to bring the back to them, which I did.
They kept the car for one and a half day before calling me to come pick up the car. They did offer me a courtesy car with almost identical mileage, a Citroen C3 which drives flawless.
I went back to the dealer to pick up the car and noticed that there was an improvement to some of the issues but most of them were still not fixed. There was no more steering wheel vibration at motorways cruise but still the steering wheel was shaking under braking sometimes.
This steering shake under braking was pointed out by me to the dealer Service Manager ****** when we test drove the car together but he informed me that this was normal because of the road condition which I strongly rejected. He also tried to convince me that the steering wheel jerking and twitching from left to right was absolutely normal. I've explained to him that maybe this is normal with an used car with many miles on the clock but not with a brand new car with 3 miles on the clock.
Every time my car goes over small bumps and cracks on the road the steering wheel is abruptly twitching and shaking back and forth, making the car to suddenly change direction to the left or right very rapidly. I have tried to explain to the dealer that this is not normal or safe but he disagrees with me.
On 31-03-2014 I phoned the Dealer and Informed him that I want to reject the car. I’ve been informed that they have to speak with Citroen UK. Later that day they come back to me and told me that they opened a case with Citroen and also informed me that I have to book in the car with another Citroen dealer for an independent opinion, if this can be considered independent opinion. I agreed with that and on 01-04-2014 the car was with my local Dealer *************** Southampton.
One of the mechanics has test drove the car with me and immediately noticed that the car was pulling left in a very strange way. He also noticed that the steering wheel is twitching and jerking every time the front wheels go over small bumps and cracks on the road. He told me that they have to check the air pressure, disk brakes and something like connecting the steering rack to a device that will tell if the wheel alignment of the car changes while driving the vehicle. This part is very technical for me.
Later that day they called me to tell me that I can take the car back. They gave me a job report that says that while the car was pulling left when during the test drive, they couldn't find anything wrong with any of the steering and suspension components so the car is OK at the moment of the testing.
On the evening of 01-04-2014 I emailed a formal Complaint Letter to the Dealer. On 02-04-2014 I have received an email confirming that they have received the letter.
On 03-04-2014 I have noticed that the front bumper is painted in a noticeable different shade of grey then the rest of the car!!!!!
Here are some video links to my YouTube channel:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/26371319@N02/sets/72...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDvNjn3Ais
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9di-go9u-A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2YOyYslUY0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QZAhTatjGk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyjTSxxifGg Citroen C3 - driven on the same roads - steering rock solid no jerkines.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7-kQOyh_II
This is the story so far.
Is the steering behaviour normal for a new car or I'm just to demanding?
Do I have enough evidence to go with the car back and reject it?
I've done a little bit of research and found out that others have been successful in rejecting their cars. http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/citroen-c3-picasso...
Thank you
After much consideration and a crazy amount of courage I have decided not to buy a Seat Leon Touring FR but a brand new Citroen DS5 2.0 HDI manual. Very soon this proofed to be a huge mistake.
The car was purchase by finance, PCP. The OTR price of the vehicle was 17000 pounds, heavily discounted from 25000 pounds. This big discount of 8000 pounds made me choose this car. Big mistake. The Conditional Credit Agreement was signed on 17-04-2014.
Also relevant is the fact that this was a distance selling purchase. This vehicle was advertised via AutoTrader home page and all the correspondence between me and the dealer (***************** - Stourbridge) was via phone or email.
I have recorded each phone conversation with dealer representatives, I kept the email correspondence between us and also I have detailed and relevant video recordings about how the car behaves.
Friday (21.03.2014) I took delivery of a brand new Citroen DS5 which I bought with finance by PCP provided by Barclays Partner Finance. As soon as I drove the car from the dealer I've noticed Steering and Braking faults with the car. The most obvious defect was the fact the car suffered from a bad wheel alignment, the steering wheel stayed all the time lean to the left and the car was pulling constantly left, no matter of the camber of the road.
I immediately turned to the dealer to report the issues with the car. The dealer briefly inspected the car and they told me that they used some kind of brake spray to clean the brakes and also test drove the car and informed me that the car is fault free. This seemed very weird to me because no spray cleaner in this world will cure a bad wheel alignment but I was too tired to argue (been travel for 4h by train to reach Dealer's location)
I've set up again on the road and I noticed that nothing has really changed with the car's issues, obviously.
When I arrived home (more than 140 miles away) I have contacted the dealer by phone explaining that none of the problems with the car have been fixed. I've been told that on Monday (24.03.2014) I will be contacted by the Dealer's Service Manager who will discuss with me this matter.
Nobody contacted me and I decided to take the car to an independent and reputable tracking specialist. The wheel alignment job print out clearly shows that the car's tracking was off.
This was not the only problem with my brand new car.
Here is full list of faults:
1. Bad wheel alignment and tracking causing the vehicle to constantly pull to the left.
2. Steering wheel was off centred, it stays leaned towards passenger side.
3. Steering wheel vibrates at motorways cruise speeds 60 – 70 mph.
4. Steering wheel shakes under braking.
5. The car is very unstable on uneven and slightly bumpy roads, especially when braking, causing the car to change trajectory towards incoming traffic or pavement.
6. The steering wheel is twitching and jerking back and forth every time the front wheel goes over small bumps and cracks on the surface of the road, also causing the car to change trajectory towards incoming traffic or pavement.
7. Miss coloured front bumper – painted in a different shade of grey.
8. Rattling noise coming from the right hand side rear passenger door.
Tuesday ,25.03.2014, morning I've contacted the dealer and told them that I'm willing to return the car to them so they can have a full check of the car. They agreed to bring the back to them, which I did.
They kept the car for one and a half day before calling me to come pick up the car. They did offer me a courtesy car with almost identical mileage, a Citroen C3 which drives flawless.
I went back to the dealer to pick up the car and noticed that there was an improvement to some of the issues but most of them were still not fixed. There was no more steering wheel vibration at motorways cruise but still the steering wheel was shaking under braking sometimes.
This steering shake under braking was pointed out by me to the dealer Service Manager ****** when we test drove the car together but he informed me that this was normal because of the road condition which I strongly rejected. He also tried to convince me that the steering wheel jerking and twitching from left to right was absolutely normal. I've explained to him that maybe this is normal with an used car with many miles on the clock but not with a brand new car with 3 miles on the clock.
Every time my car goes over small bumps and cracks on the road the steering wheel is abruptly twitching and shaking back and forth, making the car to suddenly change direction to the left or right very rapidly. I have tried to explain to the dealer that this is not normal or safe but he disagrees with me.
On 31-03-2014 I phoned the Dealer and Informed him that I want to reject the car. I’ve been informed that they have to speak with Citroen UK. Later that day they come back to me and told me that they opened a case with Citroen and also informed me that I have to book in the car with another Citroen dealer for an independent opinion, if this can be considered independent opinion. I agreed with that and on 01-04-2014 the car was with my local Dealer *************** Southampton.
One of the mechanics has test drove the car with me and immediately noticed that the car was pulling left in a very strange way. He also noticed that the steering wheel is twitching and jerking every time the front wheels go over small bumps and cracks on the road. He told me that they have to check the air pressure, disk brakes and something like connecting the steering rack to a device that will tell if the wheel alignment of the car changes while driving the vehicle. This part is very technical for me.
Later that day they called me to tell me that I can take the car back. They gave me a job report that says that while the car was pulling left when during the test drive, they couldn't find anything wrong with any of the steering and suspension components so the car is OK at the moment of the testing.
On the evening of 01-04-2014 I emailed a formal Complaint Letter to the Dealer. On 02-04-2014 I have received an email confirming that they have received the letter.
On 03-04-2014 I have noticed that the front bumper is painted in a noticeable different shade of grey then the rest of the car!!!!!
Here are some video links to my YouTube channel:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/26371319@N02/sets/72...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDvNjn3Ais
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9di-go9u-A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2YOyYslUY0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QZAhTatjGk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyjTSxxifGg Citroen C3 - driven on the same roads - steering rock solid no jerkines.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7-kQOyh_II
This is the story so far.
Is the steering behaviour normal for a new car or I'm just to demanding?
Do I have enough evidence to go with the car back and reject it?
I've done a little bit of research and found out that others have been successful in rejecting their cars. http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/citroen-c3-picasso...
Thank you
Edited by mbrad26 on Saturday 5th April 17:49
Edited by mbrad26 on Sunday 6th April 20:26
Edited by mbrad26 on Monday 7th April 23:04
Edited by mbrad26 on Tuesday 8th April 17:38
Edited by mbrad26 on Tuesday 8th April 18:06
Edited by mbrad26 on Tuesday 8th April 18:07
Edited by mbrad26 on Tuesday 15th April 17:52
Thanks for your replies.
I know very well that there are other options around, but the DS5 was my choice. There isn't one brand considered to be fault free, all of them have their own stories.
The front bumper is made from the same material as the rear one yet only the front bumper has a different shade of paint.
From what you've seen on the vids is the steering OK, is this what is to be expected from a brand new car? The wheels size is 17" with 225/50/r17.
Thanks guys
I know very well that there are other options around, but the DS5 was my choice. There isn't one brand considered to be fault free, all of them have their own stories.
The front bumper is made from the same material as the rear one yet only the front bumper has a different shade of paint.
From what you've seen on the vids is the steering OK, is this what is to be expected from a brand new car? The wheels size is 17" with 225/50/r17.
Thanks guys
WinstonWolf said:
That bumper definitely looks a different colour.
Does the wheel suddenly kick left like It appears in the video?
Have you got a printout of the geo? If not you need one...
I'd say most of the driving problems are down to alignment.
Yes I have print out and is available on flickr. The wheel alignment is perfect.Does the wheel suddenly kick left like It appears in the video?
Have you got a printout of the geo? If not you need one...
I'd say most of the driving problems are down to alignment.
Shambler said:
Contact your finance company and tell them you are not happy with the car. I would imagine you are well within your rights to reject the car as you have not yet "accepted" the car.
All-ready done that. They told me that that they raised the issues with the Dealer under section 75 of Consumer Credit Act 1974 but they close it because the Dealer can't do anything else
. This was before discovering the miss coloured bumper.I've contacted them again (both Finance Company and Stourbridge ******* Dealer) with the new issue and so far I have no news from any of them.
I understand that for me to be successful in rejecting the car I have to take the car back to the Dealer and leve it there along with all the documentation and the keys. I'm willing to do just that but what if they refuse to take it back? Can I just leave it there?
Cheers
Edited by mbrad26 on Tuesday 15th April 17:53
WinstonWolf said:
The steering is not OK IMO, it always kicks left. Can you get someone to safely video it on the wrong side of a deserted road to eliminate the camber effect?
As long as the road is straight and no inclination left or right the steering is perfectly fine. I can feel a little vibration through the steering wheel but I guess is just the surface of the road. The problems with the steering only appear when the front wheels goes over bumps an cracks. Is just like bump steer - in my opinion.
also under braking on rough surfaces the steering is twitching and jerking, and the car pools hard left or right.
Thanks guys for support and advice. Much appreciated.
I also own 6 years old Honda Civic EX with 17" wheels, with 42000 miles on the clock that behave way better on the same roads that I'm driving the DS5. Don't have any vids yet. But I do have video recordings with the Citroen C3 that the dealer gave me as a courtesy car and the way it drives is absolutely flawless - on the same road. Although one can argue that is not the same car, different suspension set-up and tyre size.
Anyway, tomorrow morning I will take the car back to the dealer and I will leave it with all the documentation and both keys. I will come back here with more details tomorrow.
Cheers
I also own 6 years old Honda Civic EX with 17" wheels, with 42000 miles on the clock that behave way better on the same roads that I'm driving the DS5. Don't have any vids yet. But I do have video recordings with the Citroen C3 that the dealer gave me as a courtesy car and the way it drives is absolutely flawless - on the same road. Although one can argue that is not the same car, different suspension set-up and tyre size.
Anyway, tomorrow morning I will take the car back to the dealer and I will leave it with all the documentation and both keys. I will come back here with more details tomorrow.
Cheers
Hello again
First of all : A big THANK YOU for your support!
I've just returned from Stourbridge where this morning I've rejected the car officially. Got everything on record.
All the car's documents and keys where left at the Citroen ***********. I also have given them a letter explaining all the reasons behind my actions. They didn't wanted to touch the car's key but I just left them on the reception desk while video recording.
I have also sent 2 Complaint Letters: one to the Dealers' Customer Service Manager and one to the Finance Company, explaining why I reject the car and informed them that I hold them equally responsible under Sale of Goods Act 1979 and Consumer Credit Act 1974.
Some strange things happened with the car on my way back to Stourbridge. In three occasions when the front axle went over some small bumps on the motorway, 75-80 mph, the entire car begun vibrating - a high amplitude vibration through the steering wheel, seats and chassis. This made my blood frozen. Never happened to me before with any car. Very strange.
Anyway, now I feel pretty relaxed.
Cheers
First of all : A big THANK YOU for your support!
I've just returned from Stourbridge where this morning I've rejected the car officially. Got everything on record.
All the car's documents and keys where left at the Citroen ***********. I also have given them a letter explaining all the reasons behind my actions. They didn't wanted to touch the car's key but I just left them on the reception desk while video recording.
I have also sent 2 Complaint Letters: one to the Dealers' Customer Service Manager and one to the Finance Company, explaining why I reject the car and informed them that I hold them equally responsible under Sale of Goods Act 1979 and Consumer Credit Act 1974.
Some strange things happened with the car on my way back to Stourbridge. In three occasions when the front axle went over some small bumps on the motorway, 75-80 mph, the entire car begun vibrating - a high amplitude vibration through the steering wheel, seats and chassis. This made my blood frozen. Never happened to me before with any car. Very strange.
Anyway, now I feel pretty relaxed.
Cheers
Edited by mbrad26 on Tuesday 15th April 17:56
M4cruiser said:
Just an idea M Brad - do you think this one would be a good replacement for yours?
It's a black demo DS5 Dsign at Freeborn, £16,000,
Check out Autotrader, it pops up quite easily, I can't make the url link work.
Have a look (it's in your area) and let them know if that's what you want.
Thanks for the heads up but I want a brand new car because I want to be free of any worries if possible It's a black demo DS5 Dsign at Freeborn, £16,000,
Check out Autotrader, it pops up quite easily, I can't make the url link work.
Have a look (it's in your area) and let them know if that's what you want.
M4cruiser said:
Hi M brad,
Looks like you went prepared for an overnight and maybe to scare them too:-
http://www.expressandstar.com/news/emergency-servi...
HahahaLooks like you went prepared for an overnight and maybe to scare them too:-
http://www.expressandstar.com/news/emergency-servi...
)The time is just about wright
I hope I don't get nicked tonightOMG - I'm going to hide now
Hi all
There are some interesting developments.
Late last-night, trying to find ways to make my story more public and to get those responsible to act more quickly, I decided to post pics of the front bumper on Twitter and on Citroen's Facebook pages such as Citroen UK or Citroen and so on.
This strategy seems to pay-off because I have all-ready spoke with some one from Citroen UK Head Office. Citroen UK has contacted me early this morning on Facebook and 20 min ago or so, on my phone.
Thank you guys for support
There are some interesting developments.
Late last-night, trying to find ways to make my story more public and to get those responsible to act more quickly, I decided to post pics of the front bumper on Twitter and on Citroen's Facebook pages such as Citroen UK or Citroen and so on.
This strategy seems to pay-off because I have all-ready spoke with some one from Citroen UK Head Office. Citroen UK has contacted me early this morning on Facebook and 20 min ago or so, on my phone.
Thank you guys for support
Pappagallo said:
My colleague has taken delivery of a C4 Grand this week, in what I think is the same colour as yours. I've just been for a look and there is only very slight colour mismatch between bonnet and bumper. Probably the same as what our grey MX-5 had. Nothing like as bad as what is in your pics.
The rear bumper is in the same shade as with the rest of the car. No difference whatsoever, it's like they are one piece...the rear bumper is made from PVC or plastic.t400ble said:
One point from me.
When you bought the car,did you not take a good look at it?
No test drive?
Yes I did took a good look...but I didn't noticed.When you bought the car,did you not take a good look at it?
No test drive?
Its strange but I didn't. If you look from bigger distance or if you get very close to the bumper you begin to see the difference. I was buying a brand new car not a used one and as a consequence I did not expected this sort of problems.
I made the mistake of completely trusting the dealer. Lesson learned.
Test drive? NO
It was a brand new car with 3 miles on the clock, with all the wraps still on the trims (inside) -as I requested to be.
Cheers
With these feet said:
If the dealer wont accept it back then return it under the finance agreement.
As said, there is sufficient evidence the car is not as it left the factory and has been repaired. Not unusual to have a car repaired before delivered but in this case I would back it, especially with what looks like geometry issues with the steering.
Tell them you want another and compensation for the time wasted on what shouldnt be returning to the dealer till the first service.
Already returned the car on Sunday morning. They didn't want it back but I left it with them and the keys on the reception desk while I've recorded everything on video. Also left them a letter explaining why.As said, there is sufficient evidence the car is not as it left the factory and has been repaired. Not unusual to have a car repaired before delivered but in this case I would back it, especially with what looks like geometry issues with the steering.
Tell them you want another and compensation for the time wasted on what shouldnt be returning to the dealer till the first service.
Between me and the dealer isn't any kind of binding contract.
I all-ready requested full refund for all my expenses to the Finance Company.
Just waiting for their response before taking further action.
Cheers
Negative Creep said:
I normally open these threads with a sceptical mindset but that is one of the worst colour matches I've ever seen. Did they go into Halfords and pick up the first grey spray paint they found?
I know exactly what you mean. I don't know how they painted the front bumper but trying to sell the car like that is speechless - is like they just don't give a ...
I mean ...do you hope the customer wont notice at some point??? What were they thinking?
Is beyond any kind of common sense.
You hear about this kind of stories happening to others but you just go ahead and not believe that this will ever happen to you...until it does.
Now I can say that I have no more confidence in any Dealer, no matter who that Dealer is and who it represents.
This is clear example of negligence, fraud and with the risk of sounding a little bit hysteric - pure theft.
Cheers
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