Diesel backlash
Discussion
After the recent smog problems and increased press coverage of the fact that diesel is still horribly polluting, do you think the gov will be forced to raise the price of diesel a lot once the economy is a bit better? It's about time everyone stopped obsessing about CO2 figures and focused on the stuff that poisons city air.
It isn't very politically attractive to 'attack' drivers of crappy Ecoboxes rather than the rich, but the current obsession with diesels as being 'green' is very hard to explain!
It isn't very politically attractive to 'attack' drivers of crappy Ecoboxes rather than the rich, but the current obsession with diesels as being 'green' is very hard to explain!
I get the point that most car buyers dont think very deeply about the total cost of running a car, but how on Earth was anyone ever persuaded that diesel was the way to go for economy and/or the environment?
The current generation of highly complex diesels are still very polluting (in the ways that matter), do not actually get great MPG in the real world and will be worth naff all once the turbos or injectors give up (making them, in the long term, not very good value as hardware).
I'm not impressed by the efficiency of the small turbo diesels and petrols. Real world mpg is almost always around 45-50, so you spend 2/3 as much as you would if you drove something with a 3 litre petrol engine and actually enjoyed your driving. I exaggerate, but it is hardly like these things are getting 70mpg and actually saving anyone money (once you take into account purchase costs, etc).
The current generation of highly complex diesels are still very polluting (in the ways that matter), do not actually get great MPG in the real world and will be worth naff all once the turbos or injectors give up (making them, in the long term, not very good value as hardware).
I'm not impressed by the efficiency of the small turbo diesels and petrols. Real world mpg is almost always around 45-50, so you spend 2/3 as much as you would if you drove something with a 3 litre petrol engine and actually enjoyed your driving. I exaggerate, but it is hardly like these things are getting 70mpg and actually saving anyone money (once you take into account purchase costs, etc).
The_Burg said:
Diesel winter shed does high 40's mpg and actually is quite rapid. 60+ on long distance.
(1.9 TDi remapped to 170hp allegedly). Pretty impressive and the shove in the back is impressive.
Normal car has 140 ish and does 30mpg and would be left for dead by turbo shed.
On paper the shed is over 3 seconds slower to 60. In the real world it would struggle.
Diesels have the peak where it is actually used. For a petrol you need to be revving to double the rpm. Which is much more fun, but in normal go to work / shopping etc the diesel wins every time.
I have never understood this argument about diesel acceleration. You ARE allowed to change down to get into a petrol car's power band. A lot of journos now assume that is beyond the average driver so talk about 'usable' power (i.e. how well a car will pull in a high gear).(1.9 TDi remapped to 170hp allegedly). Pretty impressive and the shove in the back is impressive.
Normal car has 140 ish and does 30mpg and would be left for dead by turbo shed.
On paper the shed is over 3 seconds slower to 60. In the real world it would struggle.
Diesels have the peak where it is actually used. For a petrol you need to be revving to double the rpm. Which is much more fun, but in normal go to work / shopping etc the diesel wins every time.
Matthen said:
JamesK said:
Even assuming the following:
Average price per litre of £129.75 petrol / £136.26 diesel (current national average prices)
A saving of £20,000 in fuel (the absolute minimum I can infer from your comment)
That your petrol was HALF as efficient as your diesel (25mpg / 50mpg)
You would have to do over 178,000 miles to achieve that saving.
If all that is true then well done. Yes I am bored.
I object. I paid 132 pence for a litre of diesel last week - a damn sight less than the 136 pounds you're suggesting is average. Incidentally - My diesel car returns 72 mpg @ 60 mph - the petrol equivalent returns 35... so your numbers aren't completely unrealistic. Average price per litre of £129.75 petrol / £136.26 diesel (current national average prices)
A saving of £20,000 in fuel (the absolute minimum I can infer from your comment)
That your petrol was HALF as efficient as your diesel (25mpg / 50mpg)
You would have to do over 178,000 miles to achieve that saving.
If all that is true then well done. Yes I am bored.
I did the same run in a 320d and a Cayman S recently, driving both like a granny (except for overtaking and a few bursts of acceleration): 55mpg in the BMW, 35 mpg in the Pork.
I think a lot of the difference that most people see results from the fact that people drive fuel efficient cars in a fuel efficient way (because it's no fun no matter how you drive it), whereas it's hard to resist driving a fast petrol car like a fast petrol car. If you wanted to, though, I reckon you could push 40mpg over a tank in some pretty decent petrol cars (including NA ones).
scubadude said:
My garage this morning had both petrol and diesel at 130.9p/ltr, given that my twice as economical diesel which was only £100 more to buy than the petrol version is paying for itself with ease.
Oh and it also has 3x the torque- very handy for towing.
I find it rather hilarious people/government moaning about diesel exhaust, we've known they are more polluting since the late 1800's FFS!
So that means we should just put up with the pollution? Diesel is grossly under-taxed and a sea change is required if we want a rational system.Oh and it also has 3x the torque- very handy for towing.
I find it rather hilarious people/government moaning about diesel exhaust, we've known they are more polluting since the late 1800's FFS!
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