Does budget = rubbish?

[e21Mark]

I had to buy a couple of 235/50x14 last weekend and whilst I would have liked Toyo 888's I simply couldn't afford them right now, at £199 each. I didn't want to go down the route of the Ling-Long or Sunny but I did notice there is now a trackday Nangkang available. If honest, I simply couldn't get my head around the idea of fitting a Nangkang to an M3! Instead, I opted for a pair of Toyo R1R and I am told they are the same compound as 888's but with a better wet weather tread pattern. The certainly look nice enough but having only done a few miles, I can't comment on performance yet.

So I just wondered if anyone else was running Toyo R1R? Also, was I foolish to discount the new Nangkang? I mean, we used to bin Yoyohama for being absolute rubbish back in the day.

What are the best of what might be called budget tyres?

[e21Mark]

Isn't it fair to assume that tyres have moved on somewhat since 1990 though?

I'm not talking about £29.99 tyres from China but the less expensive options from major manufacturers. Nangkang get slated by most (apart from stretch tyre or drifters) but now make an NS2R which is supposedly pretty good. They've got to overcome the brand snobbery before people will take them seriously.

[e21Mark]

Mound Dawg said:

I've run R1Rs, in fact one of the first sets in the country went on my car and Toto were actually interested in my comments. Unfortunately they were fitted in November so my first report was "They're st on snow".

Subsequent track use showed that they worked really well although like the previously fitted R888s they like a lot more negative camber than my Alfa 75 is happy with so the outside edge of the tread tore up a bit.

Good grip though, Nurburgring track times about the same as the R888 although better track knowledge/bravery may have helped here.

What surprises me is your reference to cost. The R1R 205/50 15 cost me more than the R888s they replaced????

Using Yoko AD08 now, actually usable on the road and don't blow chunks like the Toyos.

I bought a Yoko A529 as a spare and it certainly feels like much harder rubber than the Toyo to the touch. I bought the R1R from EARs Motorsport although a few suppliers list them at about £100. They jump to £150 for the 245's I'll need for the rears though, or £199 each for r888's.

[e21Mark]

Qwert1e said:

e21Mark said:

They certainly look nice enough

1. I'm not aware that "looks" are particularly relevant to tyre performance
2. M3 - with all the obvious costs - and then skimping on tyres seems a bit of a waste.

It's not a case of skimping on tyres though. It's simply that I only had a certain budget and was trying to get the best tyre for my money. I also looked at the tyre to compare tread pattern, the look of the shoulder of the tyre and to feel the compound of the rubber. I found looking helped me evaluate potential purchases and their potential performance.

Having looked for more objective views re the Nangkang track day tyre, it appears that they are actually pretty good and have held their own in direct comparison with 888's, Yoko etc. hopefully someone who's actually used them can volunteer an opinion?

[e21Mark]

s m said:

BritishRacinGrin said:

So none of the contributors in this thread have tried them but we have several people dismissing them as st.

We've a couple of contributors who clearly have no idea what sort of tyre an R888, T1R, NS2R etc

I've tried all the Toyos - see post above yours

Meant to thank you for that. The sun is finally out here, so plan to see how the R1R feel when pushing on a bit?

Also been reading several good reviews on the Nangkang NS-2R and they certainly seem popular amongst people that have used them. Maybe they've upped their game? Yokohama used to be absolute dross back in the late 80's and early 90's!

[e21Mark]

I have absolutely no doubt that there are a few folk on here who are perfectly able to tell me if a tyre they've used is any good, or not. Whether I choose to take said advice is down to me but even being able to get a general consensus is helpful.

I understand Nangkang getting the slating they do, although I'm unsure what percentage is down to the actual tyre as opposed to the "stanced", "slammed and/or "drift" groups that tend to favour them? I had Sunny's on slave wheels for my old e30 track car and whilst I wouldn't use them on circuit, they were perfectly reasonable for road use. (Flame suit on!)

Anyway, am off to see how these Toyo are now that the sun is out and the roads are dry?!

[e21Mark]

kambites said:

Agreed but the OP asked if budget tyres were always crap. The answer is "no". They're just usually crap.

I've yet to see a poor review of the tyre he's asking about from someone who's used it.

That's the thing isn't it? People that have used a tyre give good reports yet, those that haven't, refuse to believe it.

In case I wasn't clear originally, I wasn't seeking to cut corners or get away with spending the minimum amount on tyres. I simply have a limited budget and wondered if some of the more affordable options, such as the Nangkang, were worthy of consideration? Especially given that the NS2R is a control tyre in some race series.

I used to think Pirelli were great till I tried P6000! They made part worn Linglongs look awesome!

[e21Mark]

HannsG said:

In my opinion on an M3. Yes....it does....

I don't think you should compromise on a car like that. I have P-zeros on mine at the moment. And they are really st tyres on my M3. Can't wait to get them changed when time allows!

Sorry, it does what?

Given the stock tyre on my M3 was a 205/55r15 I don't feel I've compromised the performance of my car at all. I run Dunlop Direzza rears (245/40r17) and they offer phenomenal grip. As previously stated, I've just fitted Toyo R1R up front. (235/40r17) and having put a few miles on them earlier today, they seem perfectly acceptable. I didn't find them quite as good as the Kuhmo they replaced but I hope I'll just get used to the slight difference in feel? When the time comes to replace the Dunlop on the rear, I may well opt for the Toyo again.

[e21Mark]

RWD cossie wil said:

See, I have P-zeros on my 911 turbo & my M3, and my 530d, I think they are great tyres!

A lot of tyre performance is subjective, something that allows a 0.5 sec a lap faster and stops 2m faster when driven in controlled conditions by a pro isn't really indicative of real world performance, that tyre might have a very sudden breakaway on the limit, or a particular handling characteristic that makes it harder to drive for the average Joe?

Personally I quite like the P-zeros as they give great steering feel & have a very progressive break away, but it's largely down to individual preference as the premium tyres are all very good.

Worst tyres I ever used were Avons, quite an expensive tyre, but when fitted to my Sierra cossie (years ago) it turned the car from a nice to drive well mannered rear drive chassis into a bouncy horrible mess that felt like the car had a hinge in the middle, such was the nature of the tyres very soft sidewall.

I guess that's another consideration? The dynamics of one cars chassis over another, will effect the characteristic of that same tyre.

Ideally I would run 16" wheels on my M3 but the inflated cost, over the more common 16", is tough to do on my budget.

[e21Mark]

Well a few miles in and the Toyo R1R have actually acquitted themselves pretty well. They felt quite different to the Kumho I had been running up front, but the Toyo actually have more grip. I run Dunlop rears, which are NLA, but I got a lucky break today and snagged a pair of 245/40x17 Toyo r888's to replace them. They usually cost £199 each but I paid £150. The combination of Kumho fronts and Dunlop rears worked really well and I'm hoping the combination of R1R front and 888 rears works the same? I'm sure they'll certainly be better in wet weather, where I always found 888's struggled in heavier rain or standing water. Time will tell I guess?

[e21Mark]

BritishRacinGrin said:

I wouldn't run that combination personally. I thought the whole point of this thread was to find you a tyre which you could match front and rear? What you have now are two tyres with fairly different water clearance and warm-up characteristics. I'd expect this to lead to unpredictable balance in extremes of conditions i.e. cold or wet.
Of course what'll probably happen is you'll bump this thread in a few months to say that you haven't died in a ball of flames yet and therefore, by your measure, they're fine

I take your point but I was previously running a similar set up with a combination of Kumho & Dunlop which worked really well. My Kumho also had a better / more suitable wet weather tread pattern with the wider Dunlop rear, having little in the way of a tread pattern. I know a fair bit of time was invested to find a combination that worked (by previous people who ran the car) and I found it to handle really nicely, with plenty and grip, good balance and very predictable on the limit.

I haven't fitted the new rears yet but my reasoning was that they have the same characteristics as the Dunlop they'll replace and share the same compound as the Toyo fronts, although I imagine the differing tread patterns will afford a slight difference in warm up. Obviously, running wider rears on a RWD car there will most likely be a difference in the time the tyres take to warm up anyway. Would that not be true were I to run the same tyre front & rear?

Were I not open to advice and suggestion I wouldn't ask. Mind you, neither would I blindly accept the first opinions offered either.

Edited by e21Mark on Saturday 9th August 07:35

[e21Mark]

BritishRacinGrin said:

The Dunlops had a lot more tread than the 888's.

These are the Dunlop.