1 DAY LPG CONVERSIONS eg LEEDS LPG/ SAVE-CAR LPG
Discussion
Hi- I have had 3 cars converted over the past 15 years and went for the higher end systems. This time, for various reasons, I have decided to get my wife's little Hyundai 4 cylinder 1200cc car converted with a lower end system. Price quotes have ranged from £700 to £1350 - would you believe for the same system.
I have spoken to many installers and they trip out the old story that you get what you for. They also say it is impossible to get a good installation done in a day , fully calibrated etc. Firstly I dont believe in the adage you get what you pay for - my last system was a top of the range Prins vsi and I have had nothing but problems - and done by a UKLPG approved installer ( which really counts for nothing in my experience).
Given the above I would like to hear people's views and experiences of the cheaper Polish systems. Also I would like to hear from people who have the 1 day conversion installation. I mention 2 installers above - any views good/bad ?
I have spoken to many installers and they trip out the old story that you get what you for. They also say it is impossible to get a good installation done in a day , fully calibrated etc. Firstly I dont believe in the adage you get what you pay for - my last system was a top of the range Prins vsi and I have had nothing but problems - and done by a UKLPG approved installer ( which really counts for nothing in my experience).
Given the above I would like to hear people's views and experiences of the cheaper Polish systems. Also I would like to hear from people who have the 1 day conversion installation. I mention 2 installers above - any views good/bad ?
giblet said:
Surely it depends on the installer and his competency? I'm planning to finally get my current cat converted to LPG as I've spent over £1300 in V Power in just over 6 months and only covered just over 4600 miles.
I'm planning to use a fellow member from the owners club who has experience of converting cars with the same engine as well as other cars. Quote is reasonable and his own car is running with the same level of performance on both LPG and V Power.
hI - Yes you are absolutely correct. Give me a good installer and a lower price system anytime over an expensive system poorly installed. My reason for asking specifically about LEEDS LPG and SAVE-CAR LPG is simply because they are both 1 day installers and I was wanting to hear any feedback - good or bad I'm planning to use a fellow member from the owners club who has experience of converting cars with the same engine as well as other cars. Quote is reasonable and his own car is running with the same level of performance on both LPG and V Power.
All that jazz said:
The price isn't as simple as you're making out though, is it. You have missed out the bit where your equivalent of mpg running on LPG is something silly like 15-20mpg if you're lucky vs maybe 40-45mpg in a petrol on a long run. So back-of-a-fag-packet calculation means your LPG cost per mile is more like 80-90p/l which when you factor in the conversion costs as well doesn't make it a particularly attractive proposition to someone already running a reasonably economical petrol car, particularly the smaller engined cars.
With all due respect I think you are incorrect . On our other 2 vehicles we lose very little in comparison to runniing on petrol. Did you mean 15-20% rather than 15-20mpg ? charltjr said:
Yep, you will lose mpg on gas if the engine is tuned for the same performance as petrol. It's just chemistry - LPG has less energy per litre when burned than petrol so you burn more of it. 10 to 20 percent is quite normal.
OP the way the one day places usually work is to have several fitters working on the car at one time. It can work quite well especially on cars they're familiar with but they rely on quick turnaround and economies of scale so if you have something which causes them problems routing pipe work, locating components or mapping you're going to get even more of a rush job than you might want.
Finding a good installer is definitely the hard part, sorry but I've no idea about the two places you mention. It's a shame IMO that the industry is so poorly regulated. The LPGA is a toothless trade body not a proper regulator. But I digress
Absolutely agree with everything you have said above OP the way the one day places usually work is to have several fitters working on the car at one time. It can work quite well especially on cars they're familiar with but they rely on quick turnaround and economies of scale so if you have something which causes them problems routing pipe work, locating components or mapping you're going to get even more of a rush job than you might want.
Finding a good installer is definitely the hard part, sorry but I've no idea about the two places you mention. It's a shame IMO that the industry is so poorly regulated. The LPGA is a toothless trade body not a proper regulator. But I digress
ArmaghMan said:
Man alive there is some misinformation in this thread.
Firstly the drop is 10-15 % in mpg at worst. Drop in power roughly the same.
My question though is why convert something that's already doing good mpg.
I converted an E 39 M5 when I was using it as a daily, and then took the kit out and put it into my E39 528i when I decided to keep the M for sunny day use only.
For sure you will see a drop in oomph, which doesn't really matter with 400 bhp or 190 bhp but I wouldn't want to be driving a small engine with even less power.
As you have already had LPG conversions done you are a convert. All I can add is that the service you have gotten from your previous installers can't have been great. My 2 conversions were both done by the same guys, not cheap, but the job was done right. Never crossed my mind to go anywhere else.
Hi. It was myself who questioned the original post claiming a drop in 15-20mpg ! I have had 4 conversion s done in total - from top of the range Prins to a cheaper Landi Renzo . Guess what - the Prins system bought in 2012 has given me heaps of problems ( funnily enough only on the continent - different gas quality?) whilst the 10 year old Landi Renzo has given me no probs at all. It depens on the installer - no doubt. Firstly the drop is 10-15 % in mpg at worst. Drop in power roughly the same.
My question though is why convert something that's already doing good mpg.
I converted an E 39 M5 when I was using it as a daily, and then took the kit out and put it into my E39 528i when I decided to keep the M for sunny day use only.
For sure you will see a drop in oomph, which doesn't really matter with 400 bhp or 190 bhp but I wouldn't want to be driving a small engine with even less power.
As you have already had LPG conversions done you are a convert. All I can add is that the service you have gotten from your previous installers can't have been great. My 2 conversions were both done by the same guys, not cheap, but the job was done right. Never crossed my mind to go anywhere else.
Re your question as to why do it. Quite simply the car has only done 4500 miles and it gives me approx 45mpg.
I will be keeping this car for a good few years and it will be doing a good number of miles. Makes sense to me to have it done - all being well I will recoup in 15000 miles max.
austinsmirk said:
I'd rather chew my arm off than drive a Hyundi to turkey. surely on that sort of distance its doing 60mpg from its 1200 cc engine to begin with.
Why not fly and hire a car for buttons like any normal person.
Each to their own - no problem for me. Why the problem doing 60mph?As regards your other question I hate flying and I stay over there for 8- 10 weeks at a time. Why not fly and hire a car for buttons like any normal person.
Leemcd said:
Gotta say seems pointless on such a small engine, also drive toTurkey in a 1.0 corsa!?!? That sounds like a punishment!
I do average 65mph on the way over and I am taking a real chance doing that in some countries. 1.0 litre - what''s your problem. You want to harden up ! 1 litre or 3 litre - no difference to me other than the huge price differential. Yes it lacks a bit of comfort but hey ho it gets me there - every time . The lack of comfort is more than compensated by the huge price differentials. Why pay £20k upwards for a car - waste of money says I. DaveCWK said:
I love LPG. I converted & setup my car myself. If you have a really 'normal' car which the installer has converted many times it may be ok getting it done at a '1 day conversion' place as they will know exactly what to do and could just crack on.
If it is anything unusual/something that would require a bit of problem solving I wouldn't risk it. I'd estimate it took me around 40-50hours to install my system in its entirety.
RE parts quality, some of the polish stuff is very good, some is a bit mickey mouse. For example the Polish controller systems (STAG/LPGTech) are far better than a prins/AEB system. Smaller more modern form factor, easier to set up, more advanced controlling algorithms, far more stable, actually still being developed/updated by the manufacturer...
Hana injectors are as reliable and accurate as Prins; a set for a 4 cylinder car with an aluminium gas manifold are around £100, in comparison to an average cheap plastic set at £35.
Even basic things like the T pieces used for the coolant circuit to the evaporator; spend an extra £3 and get aluminium ones + decent hose clamps and they will never fail.
Tell the instller you are willing to spend an extra £100 on higher quality bits and you will be sorted.
Most don't do this, and just want the absolute cheapest conversion possible (after all, LPG is all about saving money right?), and then wonder why bits start failing after 9 months.
Very constructive reply Dave. Thanks. I have a Prins on my other car and I think they are overrated - other than the injectors of course. One of the guys that quoted me uses the STAG 300 ISA2 control unit. Other than the Hanna and Keihlin injectors - any others any good? And what reducer would you recommend.If it is anything unusual/something that would require a bit of problem solving I wouldn't risk it. I'd estimate it took me around 40-50hours to install my system in its entirety.
RE parts quality, some of the polish stuff is very good, some is a bit mickey mouse. For example the Polish controller systems (STAG/LPGTech) are far better than a prins/AEB system. Smaller more modern form factor, easier to set up, more advanced controlling algorithms, far more stable, actually still being developed/updated by the manufacturer...
Hana injectors are as reliable and accurate as Prins; a set for a 4 cylinder car with an aluminium gas manifold are around £100, in comparison to an average cheap plastic set at £35.
Even basic things like the T pieces used for the coolant circuit to the evaporator; spend an extra £3 and get aluminium ones + decent hose clamps and they will never fail.
Tell the instller you are willing to spend an extra £100 on higher quality bits and you will be sorted.
Most don't do this, and just want the absolute cheapest conversion possible (after all, LPG is all about saving money right?), and then wonder why bits start failing after 9 months.
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