Needlessly misleading "What car?" thread
Discussion
Hello.
I hate these threads, but here we go: my deeply rubbish E36 323 Coupe is too broken to live with, and too worthless to fix, so it's time for it to be replaced. I've enjoyed having it (it's handsome and makes a nice noise when it isn't misfiring or being drowned out by that nasty grinding noise something in the gearbox makes), but it's supposed to be a sensible alternative to my Elise, and continually going wrong isn't something I can put up with.
I've never even heard of a faulty fuel filler flap before.
It might be haunted.
Anyway, I need something that compliments the Elise (S1, so anything with electric windows is going to seem decadent) and previous cars that have done the job really well have been: MX5 turbo, RX7 FC non-turbo, mk2 MR2 NA and the 323. Yes, I realise that for 5 years I had two two-seat convertibles, but they were different enough that I never got bored of either of them.
Pretty much all of the cars in my garage are cars I'd be happy to own again, and they all pretty much do the job, but I'm getting too old and lazy to spend my weekends fixing cars and some of them have been a lot of grief (200SX and 323 being the two most continually broken cars I've owned, with the AX and Silvia being borderline unacceptable), so something reliable would be nice.
Of the cars I've had the one I most loved (apart from the Elise, which I'm keeping forever), despite it being slow and burning a horrific amount of fuel, was the 1986 RX7, but they are rare and rusty. And just because I had one that rusted away before eating it's engine doesn't mean I'm willing to poke Fate in the boob by buying another expensive non-reciprocating time bomb.
For the last ten years or so my second car has been a shed, budget of £1k or less (never less than fifty quid though, I have my pride). I like sheds, I don't have to worry about them so I can take a risk (like buying a 25 year old wankel engine with no service history), but on the other hand they tend to be a bit rubbish (like having major structural rust). So while I'd be happy to bung a few hundred quid on something eccentric, I can actually afford* about £7k on something that'll be good. Fun seems easier to have in something cheap, but grief isn't much fun - I actually have a graph for this somewhere**.
My typical journey is down twisty b-roads, commuting or with either archery equipment or a rifle in the boot (both of which fit in the Elise, just).
I'm not a total RWD snob I do like the occasional dab of oppo and the intention was to take up drifting again in the 323, if it hadn't been so broken all the bloody time. It's been a while since I've been black-flagged from a track day so maybe something suitable for that would be nice.
While I didn't like doing only 17mpg in the RX7, it's totally worth buying that much petrol for the right car.
Finally I hate convertibles. I like having a roof over my head, and I refuse to buy another convertible just to be constantly sniped at by convertibalists about why I haven't got my roof one way or the other. I expect when they go camping they sleep under an open sky with a tent neatly folded on the ground behind them and tell all the normal campers that they are doing it wrong, and think that everyone in a hotel must be jealous. I expect they even go around telling everyone that if you sleep fast enough you don't get wet when it rains.
Sorry, got myself a bit off topic there. FFS Honda why didn't you make an S2000 coupe? I like coupes.
So there you go - what car do I buy?
My problem with these threads is that the authors seem to be either utterly clueless about which cars they like or massive attention w
es. In order to make it absolutely clear which of those is the case here I've already bought my new car after searching for the right example in the exact optimum spec of my chosen model for several months***. I pick it up in three days, by which time the 323 will be a small metal cube, unless it finds a way to get being crushed wrong too.
In memory of the good old days with 300 I'll start it off by suggesting an eighties Z28 (too unappealing), a Smart (too smug) and a Unimog (too manly).
* well I can afford about £1k a year on a second car, so if it's a £7k car it's going to have to last me 7 years, or not depreciate. Also that £7k is going to have to come out of my emergency redundancy fund****, so it'll need to be something I can sell in a hurry, or a cheap shed.
** the graph was for girls, but the data works pretty well for cars too.
*** although I nearly wobbled and bought something else at the last minute because I'm a bit fickle and a bit stupid.
**** if savings offend you feel free to assume I'll be borrowing the whole thing from Wonga, or some kind of long term rental, or whatever.
I hate these threads, but here we go: my deeply rubbish E36 323 Coupe is too broken to live with, and too worthless to fix, so it's time for it to be replaced. I've enjoyed having it (it's handsome and makes a nice noise when it isn't misfiring or being drowned out by that nasty grinding noise something in the gearbox makes), but it's supposed to be a sensible alternative to my Elise, and continually going wrong isn't something I can put up with.
I've never even heard of a faulty fuel filler flap before.
It might be haunted.
Anyway, I need something that compliments the Elise (S1, so anything with electric windows is going to seem decadent) and previous cars that have done the job really well have been: MX5 turbo, RX7 FC non-turbo, mk2 MR2 NA and the 323. Yes, I realise that for 5 years I had two two-seat convertibles, but they were different enough that I never got bored of either of them.
Pretty much all of the cars in my garage are cars I'd be happy to own again, and they all pretty much do the job, but I'm getting too old and lazy to spend my weekends fixing cars and some of them have been a lot of grief (200SX and 323 being the two most continually broken cars I've owned, with the AX and Silvia being borderline unacceptable), so something reliable would be nice.
Of the cars I've had the one I most loved (apart from the Elise, which I'm keeping forever), despite it being slow and burning a horrific amount of fuel, was the 1986 RX7, but they are rare and rusty. And just because I had one that rusted away before eating it's engine doesn't mean I'm willing to poke Fate in the boob by buying another expensive non-reciprocating time bomb.
For the last ten years or so my second car has been a shed, budget of £1k or less (never less than fifty quid though, I have my pride). I like sheds, I don't have to worry about them so I can take a risk (like buying a 25 year old wankel engine with no service history), but on the other hand they tend to be a bit rubbish (like having major structural rust). So while I'd be happy to bung a few hundred quid on something eccentric, I can actually afford* about £7k on something that'll be good. Fun seems easier to have in something cheap, but grief isn't much fun - I actually have a graph for this somewhere**.
My typical journey is down twisty b-roads, commuting or with either archery equipment or a rifle in the boot (both of which fit in the Elise, just).
I'm not a total RWD snob I do like the occasional dab of oppo and the intention was to take up drifting again in the 323, if it hadn't been so broken all the bloody time. It's been a while since I've been black-flagged from a track day so maybe something suitable for that would be nice.
While I didn't like doing only 17mpg in the RX7, it's totally worth buying that much petrol for the right car.
Finally I hate convertibles. I like having a roof over my head, and I refuse to buy another convertible just to be constantly sniped at by convertibalists about why I haven't got my roof one way or the other. I expect when they go camping they sleep under an open sky with a tent neatly folded on the ground behind them and tell all the normal campers that they are doing it wrong, and think that everyone in a hotel must be jealous. I expect they even go around telling everyone that if you sleep fast enough you don't get wet when it rains.
Sorry, got myself a bit off topic there. FFS Honda why didn't you make an S2000 coupe? I like coupes.
So there you go - what car do I buy?
My problem with these threads is that the authors seem to be either utterly clueless about which cars they like or massive attention w
es. In order to make it absolutely clear which of those is the case here I've already bought my new car after searching for the right example in the exact optimum spec of my chosen model for several months***. I pick it up in three days, by which time the 323 will be a small metal cube, unless it finds a way to get being crushed wrong too.In memory of the good old days with 300 I'll start it off by suggesting an eighties Z28 (too unappealing), a Smart (too smug) and a Unimog (too manly).
* well I can afford about £1k a year on a second car, so if it's a £7k car it's going to have to last me 7 years, or not depreciate. Also that £7k is going to have to come out of my emergency redundancy fund****, so it'll need to be something I can sell in a hurry, or a cheap shed.
** the graph was for girls, but the data works pretty well for cars too.
*** although I nearly wobbled and bought something else at the last minute because I'm a bit fickle and a bit stupid.
**** if savings offend you feel free to assume I'll be borrowing the whole thing from Wonga, or some kind of long term rental, or whatever.
Edited by Captain Muppet on Wednesday 3rd September 00:04
Fantuzzi said:
Haha nice thread, you have bought the car, now want us to give you ideas of what you could have got? Or do you want us to guess the car you got?
Both. Although I'll be upset if you suggest something I like more than the car I bought, because it'll mean I'm an idiot.Fantuzzi said:
Either way, S2000 with a hard top.
I just can't do it again. Silly to let irrational hatred affect my decision, but then I am silly. Although I have heard that the handling is a bit wonky. But the real reason is the roof, and all the imagined judgement from people I pretend I don't care about.Fantuzzi said:
I am also a anti convertablist, my mr2 has a hardtop, my next car (s1 elise) will have one as well.
My S1 Elise has a hardtop and is left outside all year, totally waterproof. Amazing car, it makes me so happy.R6VED said:
What a completely pointless but thoroughly enjoyable post to read, this is why I come to PH almost everyday.
I just love reading rambling self indulgent nonsense. I am not being sarcastic or ironic just to be clear.
That is the nicest thing anyone has ever said about something I've written. Thank you.I just love reading rambling self indulgent nonsense. I am not being sarcastic or ironic just to be clear.
Fantuzzi said:
Captain Muppet said:
Fantuzzi said:
I am also a anti convertablist, my mr2 has a hardtop, my next car (s1 elise) will have one as well.
My S1 Elise has a hardtop and is left outside all year, totally waterproof. Amazing car, it makes me so happy.Is it on standard dampers?
Bill said:
Captain Muppet said:
Depreciation must be savage if they are within a £7k budget.
Did you want sensible answers? 
If GT86s are that low already then that's an amazing call, or if they're a bit too similar in concept to the Elise (ie lowish weight/power, focus on handling) then 350Z.
I came very close to buying a 944 instead, but it would have been a project, and I'm too lazy for any more projects.
I'll trade it in for a GT86 when they get to £6k.
I might trade the GT86 in for an F-type coupe when they get down to £6k, unless Exiges ever get down to that level, but it looks extremely unlikely.
Fantuzzi said:
Captain Muppet said:
Fantuzzi said:
Captain Muppet said:
Fantuzzi said:
I am also a anti convertablist, my mr2 has a hardtop, my next car (s1 elise) will have one as well.
My S1 Elise has a hardtop and is left outside all year, totally waterproof. Amazing car, it makes me so happy.Is it on standard dampers?
So, I've had this for a week now:
I'm really enjoying it. I'm not enjoying the flimsiness of the interior, or the fact that the passenger door mirror unit was glued on (fixed now with engineering), or the 4 hours I spent yesterday changing light bulbs that definitely all blew after the MOT 10 days ago which was certainly not in any way not thorough, or the godawful slime the entire interior is coated with because it was "valeted". But pretty much everything else is making me happy.
It makes a nice noise, it munches up miles with no fuss, my rifle fits in the stupid boot, it's comfy, it has all the toys I've only ever had in borrowed cars before (remote central locking is still exciting for me, and it's only now that I understand how annoying bad SatNavs can be). I realise I'm mentioning a lot of negatives, but that's either modesty or not wanting to offend whatever it is that administers Karma. I keep doing pointless drives in it (like the 15 miles to take these pictures just so they have the same backdrop as some pictures I did once of my MX5 that no one else has ever seen), I keep staring out of the window at it, I keep driving past a warehouse 8 miles away which has a particularly reflective black glass frontage.
If I didn't have the Elise as well I'd want more steering feel, and I'd probably want to know why it weighs so much, but in the context of being part of a fleet it fills it's slot pretty well. I need to have a drive on wet roads, and possibly on a track, before I can form any opinions about handling - so far it's lots of grip and not much in the way of clues as to when the grip might run out.
But as a thing to belt hither and yon about the countryside in it's been brilliant.
Just in case anyone from Nissan is reading:
Why does it weigh so much?
Why did you put the fuel filler release under the dash next to the bonnet release rather than, say, where all the other switches are?
And the biggy - what is the point of having a hatchback with a huge structural brace in the middle of it? Just put a normal boot on the back like an S15. And if you do have to have a massive brace running across the rear of the car (and I'm reasonably certain there are less intrusive and lighter ways of getting the same chassis stiffness) then why not add some sort of feature that stops anything in the boot from ending up in the passenger footwell when you brake heavily? It's a terrible compromise, and having a sticker on the hatch showing how you can load two sets of golf clubs in there doesn't make it any better, it just makes me think you designed this feature in as some kind of marketing guff.
In conclusion: I'm enjoying it and wouldn't change a thing*, other than the massive silver door handles that make me feel like I'm climbing in to a SMEG fridge.
* technically a lie, I'm itching to weld up the diff, give it some more steering lock and smoke around sideways in it, but this is supposed to be transport, not a project.
I'm really enjoying it. I'm not enjoying the flimsiness of the interior, or the fact that the passenger door mirror unit was glued on (fixed now with engineering), or the 4 hours I spent yesterday changing light bulbs that definitely all blew after the MOT 10 days ago which was certainly not in any way not thorough, or the godawful slime the entire interior is coated with because it was "valeted". But pretty much everything else is making me happy.
It makes a nice noise, it munches up miles with no fuss, my rifle fits in the stupid boot, it's comfy, it has all the toys I've only ever had in borrowed cars before (remote central locking is still exciting for me, and it's only now that I understand how annoying bad SatNavs can be). I realise I'm mentioning a lot of negatives, but that's either modesty or not wanting to offend whatever it is that administers Karma. I keep doing pointless drives in it (like the 15 miles to take these pictures just so they have the same backdrop as some pictures I did once of my MX5 that no one else has ever seen), I keep staring out of the window at it, I keep driving past a warehouse 8 miles away which has a particularly reflective black glass frontage.
If I didn't have the Elise as well I'd want more steering feel, and I'd probably want to know why it weighs so much, but in the context of being part of a fleet it fills it's slot pretty well. I need to have a drive on wet roads, and possibly on a track, before I can form any opinions about handling - so far it's lots of grip and not much in the way of clues as to when the grip might run out.
But as a thing to belt hither and yon about the countryside in it's been brilliant.
Just in case anyone from Nissan is reading:
Why does it weigh so much?
Why did you put the fuel filler release under the dash next to the bonnet release rather than, say, where all the other switches are?
And the biggy - what is the point of having a hatchback with a huge structural brace in the middle of it? Just put a normal boot on the back like an S15. And if you do have to have a massive brace running across the rear of the car (and I'm reasonably certain there are less intrusive and lighter ways of getting the same chassis stiffness) then why not add some sort of feature that stops anything in the boot from ending up in the passenger footwell when you brake heavily? It's a terrible compromise, and having a sticker on the hatch showing how you can load two sets of golf clubs in there doesn't make it any better, it just makes me think you designed this feature in as some kind of marketing guff.
In conclusion: I'm enjoying it and wouldn't change a thing*, other than the massive silver door handles that make me feel like I'm climbing in to a SMEG fridge.
* technically a lie, I'm itching to weld up the diff, give it some more steering lock and smoke around sideways in it, but this is supposed to be transport, not a project.
Update: I'm still hugely self indulgent.
Also it's been three months or so with the 350Z so I've got to know the thing a bit. Annoyingly I now like the stupid boot. There is something nice about the reflection of the stupid silver strut brace in the rear window - it stops you seeing behind you properly when it's sunny or at night under streetlights, but it's a constant reminder that you aren't driving something normal. Also I have a velcro strap so my shopping gets tied to the strut brace and doesn't roll around so much. It's still all very stupid, it just doesn't make me cross any more.
Other things I like more than I thought I would: heated seats (I've been very anti them in the past and I'm sorry, I was wrong), cruise control (I use it for all the tedious 30/40/50 limits on my b-road trips), the ESP (it works well enough that I don't worry about her crashing it when she borrows the car, but not so well that I don't feel superior when I turn it off and hoon around) and the looks have grown on me to the extent that I can drone on about the tumblehome and what-not for hours.
I still love the noise, and the torque, and the comfyness. I have gone off the airbag warning light a bit, since I now see it about half the time, at a frequency of about 1Hz. I must fix it.
The satnav is still terrible. The interior quality and rubbish ergonomics are of 996 911 scale, to the extent that I'm sometimes embarrassed when passengers touch the satnav cover, and genuinely furious that turning the ESP off or on often involves washing the headlights instead (don't put important switches out of sight next to unimportant ones) and that it toggles the headlight washers on to slave them to the windscreen washers which forces you to wash the headlights to turn the headlight washers off.
In fact the whole car reminds me of the 996 911 I used to borrow quite often. Except without the random hatred from strangers or the constant worry about the engine going pop. Solid and undramatic most of the time, but with the potential for drama always there if you want it.
I found how to cope with the slightly inert feel of the car - go faster. Once I'm a good 20% past the point where passengers start complaining it feels like my old RX7 did at normal speeds, and like an MX5 does when stuck in commuter traffic. Fortunately this is less of a problem in the wet, when the throttle is basically yaw control, and the steering does a reasonable job of letting you keep on top of things (it's no MX5, but it makes every BMW I've driven feel like it was broken). But constant handling joy is what the Elise is for, so I'd be quite pissed off if a Nissan made it obsolete.
Steering lock is worryingly limited for something so naturally sideways, to the extent that it's the first mechanical thing I'd change if I were going to drift the thing. Also I'm struggling with the diff a little on transitions - it's not as predictable as the welded diffs I'm used to. Still, if I weren't for those two issues I'd almost certainly be dangerously anti-social in it all the time, so it's probably just as well.
Average MPG has gone up from 23.9 to 25 over the last month, which is pretty much all I ever got from my MX5.
All things considered I'm pretty happy with it. Apart from the airbag warning light and a few knackered lightbulbs the only problem has been a wet footwell which a bit of silicone spray on the door seals seems to have fixed. It needs some tyres and I'm quite looking forward to buying it a nice set of something appropriate, rather than resenting the cost which was how I viewed maintenance on the E36.
It'd be nice if I could fit a set of spare tyres in it, but I'm not sure they'd fit even if I took the passenger seat out. Toyota knew what they were doing when they made that a requirement of the GT86...
Also it's been three months or so with the 350Z so I've got to know the thing a bit. Annoyingly I now like the stupid boot. There is something nice about the reflection of the stupid silver strut brace in the rear window - it stops you seeing behind you properly when it's sunny or at night under streetlights, but it's a constant reminder that you aren't driving something normal. Also I have a velcro strap so my shopping gets tied to the strut brace and doesn't roll around so much. It's still all very stupid, it just doesn't make me cross any more.
Other things I like more than I thought I would: heated seats (I've been very anti them in the past and I'm sorry, I was wrong), cruise control (I use it for all the tedious 30/40/50 limits on my b-road trips), the ESP (it works well enough that I don't worry about her crashing it when she borrows the car, but not so well that I don't feel superior when I turn it off and hoon around) and the looks have grown on me to the extent that I can drone on about the tumblehome and what-not for hours.
I still love the noise, and the torque, and the comfyness. I have gone off the airbag warning light a bit, since I now see it about half the time, at a frequency of about 1Hz. I must fix it.
The satnav is still terrible. The interior quality and rubbish ergonomics are of 996 911 scale, to the extent that I'm sometimes embarrassed when passengers touch the satnav cover, and genuinely furious that turning the ESP off or on often involves washing the headlights instead (don't put important switches out of sight next to unimportant ones) and that it toggles the headlight washers on to slave them to the windscreen washers which forces you to wash the headlights to turn the headlight washers off.
In fact the whole car reminds me of the 996 911 I used to borrow quite often. Except without the random hatred from strangers or the constant worry about the engine going pop. Solid and undramatic most of the time, but with the potential for drama always there if you want it.
I found how to cope with the slightly inert feel of the car - go faster. Once I'm a good 20% past the point where passengers start complaining it feels like my old RX7 did at normal speeds, and like an MX5 does when stuck in commuter traffic. Fortunately this is less of a problem in the wet, when the throttle is basically yaw control, and the steering does a reasonable job of letting you keep on top of things (it's no MX5, but it makes every BMW I've driven feel like it was broken). But constant handling joy is what the Elise is for, so I'd be quite pissed off if a Nissan made it obsolete.
Steering lock is worryingly limited for something so naturally sideways, to the extent that it's the first mechanical thing I'd change if I were going to drift the thing. Also I'm struggling with the diff a little on transitions - it's not as predictable as the welded diffs I'm used to. Still, if I weren't for those two issues I'd almost certainly be dangerously anti-social in it all the time, so it's probably just as well.
Average MPG has gone up from 23.9 to 25 over the last month, which is pretty much all I ever got from my MX5.
All things considered I'm pretty happy with it. Apart from the airbag warning light and a few knackered lightbulbs the only problem has been a wet footwell which a bit of silicone spray on the door seals seems to have fixed. It needs some tyres and I'm quite looking forward to buying it a nice set of something appropriate, rather than resenting the cost which was how I viewed maintenance on the E36.
It'd be nice if I could fit a set of spare tyres in it, but I'm not sure they'd fit even if I took the passenger seat out. Toyota knew what they were doing when they made that a requirement of the GT86...
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