Bore scoring potential dispute with dealer

[Monkeynut21]

I bought a porker off a dealer a little while ago and complained from the outset that it didn't feel right and was using a lot of oil. They took the car in a couple of time and did a few basic checks but not a borescope in spite of my recommending it. They said they had done all they could ( I disagreed ) and that they consider the matter closed. I could not get the car inspected by anybody else for a little while as I've been working away, now I have they have told me is score bores,it's a very good porsche specialist BTW.

The garage I bought it from want to inspect the car themselves, fair enough i don't have a problem with that but they are hinting that I should claim on the warranty. Quite apart from the fact the warranty has a £5000 limit that probably will not cover the full cost, I don't think it's a warranty claim as it is a fault the car was sold with rather than one it has developed.

What do you guys think.

[Monkeynut21]

hornetrider said:

State that you complained from the outset and that your opinion is that the issue was there from purchase. Put the ball in their court.

That pretty much what I've done at the moment.

[Monkeynut21]

SpeckledJim said:

How did it feel on the test-drive?

I was coming from a nice comfy super smooth GT car so it felt quite rough and ready by comparison so I probably wasn't the best person to judge if there was an issue on the test drive, but after a couple of weeks I was sure something wasn't right.

[Monkeynut21]

SpeckledJim said:

I don't think so.

If he only noticed it after the test drive (and after buying it), then is it really that pronounced? And if it is, then has it come on since after the car was sold?

Or if it was doing it on the test drive, why not tackle the issue at that point, or walk away?

The issue of heavy oil consumption wasn't something I could pick up off the test drive.

[Monkeynut21]

SpeckledJim said:

Granted. In and of itself though, is it an issue you are going to be able to force? If it's a £6k bill that someone is going to need to cough up for, or £10 of oil every few weeks, you could expect considerable, and probably understandable, resistance.

Especially if it's 10 years old (or similar).

The car is 7 years old. The car has bore scoring, it's not supposed to have it and whilst it is manifesting it's self in heavy oil consumption it will eventually lead to engine failure. The warranty company may argue but to me it's like saying the wheel bearing is shot but lets not do anything about it till the wheel falls off, that just doesn't make sense.

[Monkeynut21]

turboteeth said:

Just how much oil is the car using? And how long ago did you purchase it??

If I'm using it like a normal car just popping to the shop and going backwards to work I get about 600 miles to a liter if I drive it like a Porsche, spirited not a loon I'll get half that. I've owned the car for almost 7 months the first 4 of which I was trying to get the dealer to accept my concerns were genuine and sadly the last 3 I've been working away most of them.

[Monkeynut21]

papa3 said:

Assuming the warranty company is an aftermarket/3rd party affair then they won't entertain a fault that was present at time of sale, that would be a reconditioning issue, not a warranty one. Damned if you do etc...

What was the age and mileage at time of sale?

Was the price within the market norm or cheaper than most?

How long have you had the car and what mileage have you covered?

Car was bought 7 months ago as detailed in my last post with 60k on the clock. The price was normal for the market at that time and I've covered 5k

Edited by Monkeynut21 on Tuesday 30th September 22:44

[Monkeynut21]

turboteeth said:

I would imagine if yours drives ok and has not actually failed as such, a warranty claim is unlikely to be successful. Have you tried speaking to a friendly Pork Indy to get their views?

It is a bit of a tough one as it's not as it's supposed to be and it will eventually go pop as sure as eggs is eggs but as I said in the first post my view is that the garage that sold me the car not the warranty company should take responsibility as they sold it with the fault

[Monkeynut21]

SpeckledJim said:

If you've driven through the problem for 7 months and 5,000 miles there's no way anyone will be giving you a new engine, sorry.

As I have said in a previous post In that 7 months 4 were spent trying to get the garage to take me seriously and the other 3 i have mostly spent out of the country. As I bought the car from a dealer half way down the country a thousand of the 5k I've put on it have been tripping down there to try and get it sorted.

[Monkeynut21]

SpeckledJim said:

That doesn't really work in your favour. The dealer will suggest that if the problem is so bad, why hasn't it caused an actual definable problem over all that time and mileage?

The definable problem is bore scoring. It is not a problem the goes from good to bad in a short space of time, but it WILL go bad.

[Monkeynut21]

KungFuPanda said:

I'd hate to hijack this thread but my car had the same problems I presume and the previous owner had a full engine rebuild by Hartech. Uprated liners, pistons, Low Temp Thermostat, uprated IMS bearing all backed up by invoices from them.

I'm thinking of selling. Would this kind of history make the car more saleable to those in the know?

Personally I would say yes as it's been done at hartech with good documentation to back it up.

[Monkeynut21]

SpeckledJim said:

Yes, but if it hasn't gone bad yet (after 5000 miles), you can't point to a specific failure and ask to have it fixed. You have a used car that works.

The engine might well be 80% of the way to failure, but that might also be true of every bush on the car, but you can't reasonably ask for them all to be changed.

Things that are 7 years old can wear out, and that's especially true of these famously flaky Porsche engines. All used cars are somewhere on the way to breaking down, but before that actually happens, you can't really hang your hat on anything.

If the engine had actually properly let go within a few months of buying it, I think you'd have a better case. This is in the awkward hinterland between 'not a problem, they all do that' and 'failure'.

I'm afraid I cannot agree with your logic. Are you really implying that the engine of a car is a consumable part in the same way as a bush? I can accept that all the parts of a car have a design life, a tyre 1 year, brake pads 2 years, bushes 5 years, that's fine but to say that an engine showing sighs of failure after only 60k is fair wear and tear is stretching things too far in my opinion, especially when you consider that the average euro box will quite happily manage 200k and will most likely be scraped not for engine failure but because of some other costly repair.

Lets say for the sake of argument that I do accept that an engine is a consumable item and that the present damage is fair wear and tear, you state that I "can't point to a specific failure", bore scoring is a very specific failure it may not be a catastrophic failure but it is still a failure. To use a similar analogy as your bush, if you have a wheel bearing that is grumbling and showing the first sighs of failure, is that bearing broken? do you fix it now and prevent future problems and extra expense or do you leave it till it collapses and causes more damage. Personally I think if a part is not working the way a designer intended it too then it's broken/failed.

My argument with the garage is very simple. You sold me a car with damage that will lead to catastrophic failure I believe you are responsible for the repair. They will either agree or not I will have to wait and see.

Edited by Monkeynut21 on Wednesday 1st October 16:36

[Monkeynut21]

Rick1.8t said:

I remember one of the manufacturers listing 'acceptable' oil consumption every thousand miles (not sure if it was porshe?) - I think that went upto 1 ltr per thousand miles which seems very high for a 'good' engine.

Does your car have such a recommendation? - Surely if consumption is above this 'official' figure it may help the argument.

Although it can me more if I drive like miss daisy it can be as low as 300 miles per liter if driven like a porsche. Porsche say a maximum of 600 miles to 1.5 liters, a ridiculous number if you ask me.

[Monkeynut21]

tjlees said:

Reject and get you money back or get it repaired entirely for free.

The sales of goods act is very clear.

I would do an internet search or ask a solicitor to help you draft a formal letter, send it by recorded giving them 14 days to respond before taking further action.

9 times out of 10 this works - for the other 10% hire a solicitor preferably on no win no fee basis.

Good luck OP

My preferred option it to just hand it back to them and forget about it but as we all know life is rarely as simple as that so I'm prepared for a fight if I have too.

Magic919
I'd also be happy enough for Hartech to repair it but then I would worry that it's been done to the cheapest, lowest spec possible as the garage would want to minimize the cost.

[Monkeynut21]

Magic919 said:

Hartech's budget fix would still be pretty good. You'll be better off than you were. Insist on having the dialogue with Hartech and decide if you want to pay more when you know the options.

I agree Hartec's work is second to non and I know the car would be great with their help and it's one of the many scenarios playing out in my mind.