Elise and 540i replacement... Cayman S/Z4M/M5? Help.

[petrolveins]

Hi Folks,

Currently got a S2 Elise 111S and an E39 540i Auto Sport.

Running 2 cars seems ridiculous, especially for insurance and since I got the 540i the Elise doesn't see any use.

I've spent ages trying to narrow down one choice and I'm almost there but I keep being tempted away.

Criteria first. Budget is around £15k for the perfect car, but really I should try to spend less than that. I need the car for my short 10 mile round trip daily commute, which the 540i sees about 19mpg on. I also will be driving to Ireland fairly regularly with it on the rough roads over there, and I will do the odd big Europe trip. I'd also like to think I could partake in the very occasional track day with it. Ideally I want something I love and keep for a few years,

I don't need more than 2 seats, 4 is nice but not needed, as for boot space, don't need lots, but the Elise was taking the piss. I'd also like to be able to achieve 30mpg when I try on the motorway, the 540i can just about do it.

I love both my cars, the Elise for the noise and relationship between engine, gearbox and noise is wonderful. I also love the way the big 540i can be hustled along a B-Road at surprising pace, but the gearbox while fantastic for day to day doesn't like hooning, it also can't get the power down easily with the lack of LSD. As much as I prefer older cars, I'd also like something with Xenons and heated seats.

On that bases here are my top 3 choices....

A Cayman S seems to tick every box very well indeed, and is one of those dream cars for me so worth going with all the budget for. Perhaps its the badge, but the Cayman just seems special. Of the 3 its the only one I've not driven, but I did drive a Boxster S of the same age and adored that! It also seems to boast the best fuel economy which is nice. Now, being practical, are these IMS issues as widespread on the Cayman as the internet suggests? For my money I'd probably be looking at a 70k car, so in 2 years or so I'll probably pass 100k with it, are they sensitive to this sorta mileage? Are there any other big costs to worry about? Being new to Porsche it's an unknown to me.

Z4M also appeals a lot, for a little bit less money than the Cayman. Cayman strikes me a precision tool which can be enjoyed at all speeds, the Z4M though is more of an animal that needs grabbing by the scruff of the neck. Wonderful engine and feels very cocoon like inside which I like. Less worried about reliability here as I've driven BMWs for a few years now and have an excellent specialist which makes it seem a safer bet than the Cayman, but universally agreed the Cayman is the better drivers car.

Lastly and I keep crossing this off the list and adding it back again because ultimately it has been my realistic dream car since it came out.... the E39 M5.
I love my 540i, just wish it had a manual and a LSD and bit more power and noise. My big concern with the M5 is reliability and potential big costs. Fuel economy I can handle, but big maintenance bills not so much. Also is £12k the going rate for a nice 01/02 example with under 100k on them these days? I keep coming back to them, just for the way they look, I adore the shape, the lights, the interior, oh and that noise. I'm a sucker for a big heavy fast german saloon. But I worry I'm keeping this on my list as a heart before head deicison.

Before you all suggest it the E46 M3 really doesn't do it for me, weirdly though I did drive a 130i at Birds Garage and loved it! Though it needs an LSD and a decent exhaust to really unlock the potential, it's taken me ages to get to these 3 so I'd like to try and stick with them seeing as I've explored and ruled out everything from 996s, VXR8s to 335is and 650is.

I read one comment on a thread on here about something I was exploring, can't remember what but it said, don't let yourself find that you are on an amazing road somewhere in Europe in the wrong car with the right car in the garage. This is exactly what I felt on the route napoleon this summer in the 540i. I want one car that does all the things I want it to well.

Some practical real world comments and advice on the above 3 cars would be greatly appreciated, google does a great job of throwing up horror stories.

[petrolveins]

Thanks for the suggestions chaps. Don't want an Auto so SLK is out.

Was really hoping for some M5/Z4M/Cayman owners to come forward. Should probably venture into the model specific forms on here.

[petrolveins]

talksthetorque said:

We have a Z4M Coupe, and I certainly would not recommend it for 'Rough Irish Roads'
It pitches over low speed bumps and the front lip is quite low. You may end up scraping the front.
Plus it will barely get up to temp on that commute every day.

My old 330i never got upto temp on my commute either. Thanks for the info regarding it pitching and the front lip, when I travel to Ireland I often take a small local ferry with a nasty ramp angle, though sadly I suspect all 3 cars will struggle

[petrolveins]

All the comments help guys.

I would love to keep two cars, but being 22 insurance on 2 cars is around £2,500 which raises if an M badge is involved. Per year an additional car will cost me £3-5k extra running I reckon and when I don't listen to man maths this can't be justified. That money can be saved for better things.

Beginning to think the Z4M may be a little harsh for what I want. Not had much feedback on the M5 yet...

[petrolveins]

JetskiJezz said:

edc said:

If you've tried a Boxster S and liked it why not get one? Roof down/top off opportunities like the Elise and handlng almost identical to the Cayman. Arguably, more practical with 2 boots. At £15k you are comfortably in 987 territory which is more refined and daily like than 986 with a more spacious cabin. However, I would consider a 986 550 Anniversary. It has as standard the factory option M030 sports suspension so possibly brings you closer to the Elise for handling than a regular Boxster. You should be able to get one at £10k or less which leaves you plenty left over for the inevitable modifications or upgrades or just a bit as contingency.

I would agree with the above, if you really are after just one car to try and fit all situations then surely be Boxster S ticks pretty much all of the boxes.
Open-air motoring with the sun out.
Big enough double boot space
Relatively well built
Plenty of different options
Perfectly comfortable cross country on relatively rough roads

Having said this I too don't think the one car can really do everything perfectly, but with up to £15 K to play with and wanting some level of practicality it's what I would do.

I'm beginning to think this is an option I should be exploring. Just not very keen on the look of them. The Cayman and Z4M look more special, and ultimately I want something I've wanted to own if that makes sense? Something that will give me a great deal of pleasure just saying that I own one.

SuperVM said:

I've had an E39 M5 and would think it very heavy for track work, though I appreciate you only plan to do the occasional track day. They are great cars and do handle better than their weight suggests they should, but I still found mine a bit wallowy for b-roads and I imagine that would only get worse on the track. Having said that, mine was on reasonably old suspension and I believe a refresh makes a vast difference. The noise with custom straight through back boxes was phenomenal above 4.5k RPM and always put a smile on my face.

I appreciate you've said E46 M3s aren't for you, but I've had two E36 M3s and I haven't owned anything else that has done everything as well, I think you should probably drive one before dismissing them. Your budget is starting to touch E90 M3s, so perhaps those are worth considering, though reasonably heavy again.

Weight isn't the issue, I quite enjoy a heavy car, and the 540i was fine down the back roads, just a little slow with the gearbox. Wouldn't want to go as old as an E36 for a daily, too dated inside now for me. How long did have your M5 for, how were maintenance and running costs?

[petrolveins]

barchetta_boy said:

How much will you be looking for for your 111S?

Around £16k

[petrolveins]

Just read about cmoose and his Cayman S experience, the bore score new engine experience. I realise this doesn't affect every car but this IMS/RMS/Bore score issue seems widespread across all the Porsche content I am looking at, is it really worth the risk?

[petrolveins]

edc said:

What about swirl flaps on diesels and Nikasil liners etc. All problems. Get a 986 and no bore problems. My new one had a new IMS when I did the clutch but it already had 105k on it. Between them mine have done 190k.

Swirl Flaps and Nikasil to me seem to be well documented and easy to find out about on a car. This IMS business has confused the hell out of me, granted most say its a small number of cars affected, but it's risk I'd rather not take. I don't think £15k will get me a Cayman with a warranty on it :/ I'd love to be wrong, but I feel more comfortable in the BMW world. Perhaps I need to venture to a Porsche specialist and talk to them about IMS and all these things, reassure myself.

[petrolveins]

edc said:

There are plenty of horror stories on the Internet but you should be able to find out about the IMS quite easily. Bear in mind most stuff you will read is not of a person's actual experience but something that they have heard and are now repeating. RMS is not worth worrying about. I was similar to you when i bought my first one but in then end I couldn't be bothered to read through all the crap and just bought a car anyway. On a 986 you can mitigate your risk by changing the IMS bearing. Depending on what bearing you use and whether you opt to change the clutch at the same time then it will cost you something in the region of £700-1200.

First bit of practical advice I've heard about IMS, thank you. The price you quote, would that be a Porsche specialist pricing? I see you are in Surrey too? Anyone worth going to see and talk to about IMS and what to look for on a Cayman and the cost/process of prevantive work?