Selling a car, payment by bank transfer. If it seems dodgy..
Discussion
After some advice as to how to make sure I don't get stung.
I have a car advertised for sale (nothing special), someone with a strong scottish accent rang up and was very keen, he asked the usual questions about the car and then after very brief haggling we agreed a price we were both happy with.
That's when he pointed out he would need to have the car collected as he is in 'the middle of scotland' and can't take enough time out from his business to easily fetch it himself (I'm a bit north of Bristol). Smelling a rat I dug deeper and asked how he would expect to pay for the car if he wasn't even coming to view it, he first asked if he could pay by card but I explained I am not a dealer and can't accept card payments, at which point he said he could do a bank transfer.
I was happy with that although was strongly thinking something smells fishy but went along with it for now. Anyway he said he would call back the next day to confirm etc, he called the next day to ask for my postcode to get a quote from a haulage company, I gave him my postcode (no other address details) and he said he would call back.
He then called back to say he had got a shipping quote that was happy with (£400) and he would pass me onto his wife to sort the bank transfer as he said he was inept when it comes to the internet and computers. He passed me onto his wife who also had a strong scottish accent, she took my bank details and said they would do the transfer straight away and they would ring to let me know it had gone though.
I checked my bank and sure enough the full amount had been transferred and was showing as cleared in my account
I then had another call from him to say it should have gone through and he would call me in the week to arrange with me about the haulage firm coming to collect it, but he explained he doesn't know as yet when it is likely to be. We left it at that basically.
I have his name. (or so he says)
I have his mobile number.
He told me his business name (which is his surname) and it checks out on google, based in Falkirk.
He told me the name of the haulage company, it also checks out on google and is based in Falkirk.
The bank transfer was for the full amount we agreed (no less/no extra) and it shows up as a 'FPI' transfer and has his name attributed to it.
I made it clear on the phone that I wouldn't let the car go without photo I.D. of whoever was collecting it. (not a problem).
It all checks out rather more convincingly then the usual scams going round, so am I lucky and have a genuine buyer?
I will be going to the bank tomorrow to ask them about the security of the payment and whether they can confirm it won't be returned (I.E. they are happy it hasn't been transferred from a stolen account).
I will also call him back to confirm some details I forgot to earlier, like how he plans to sort the V5 as I WILL NOT post it to him, I will only post it directly to the DVLA. I would also like to send him a receipt by email, have him sign it and scan/email back to me saying sold as seen (should I put that as he hasn't actually seen it?).
EDIT: I will also call his company directly from the numbers on their website and see if it goes through to this chap and/or his wife. Likewise the haulage firm, I will call the numbers on their website and ask if they have had instruction from his business to collect the car. [/edit]
Anyway I am currently in the position where I have the car, the V5, the keys and the money. I haven't given out my full address (can't see the car from the road) so I am not concerned about it being stolen, it is still insured by me anyway.
Apart from the above is there anything else anyone can think of I can/should do to protect myself incase this all goes tits up?
I have a car advertised for sale (nothing special), someone with a strong scottish accent rang up and was very keen, he asked the usual questions about the car and then after very brief haggling we agreed a price we were both happy with.
That's when he pointed out he would need to have the car collected as he is in 'the middle of scotland' and can't take enough time out from his business to easily fetch it himself (I'm a bit north of Bristol). Smelling a rat I dug deeper and asked how he would expect to pay for the car if he wasn't even coming to view it, he first asked if he could pay by card but I explained I am not a dealer and can't accept card payments, at which point he said he could do a bank transfer.
I was happy with that although was strongly thinking something smells fishy but went along with it for now. Anyway he said he would call back the next day to confirm etc, he called the next day to ask for my postcode to get a quote from a haulage company, I gave him my postcode (no other address details) and he said he would call back.
He then called back to say he had got a shipping quote that was happy with (£400) and he would pass me onto his wife to sort the bank transfer as he said he was inept when it comes to the internet and computers. He passed me onto his wife who also had a strong scottish accent, she took my bank details and said they would do the transfer straight away and they would ring to let me know it had gone though.
I checked my bank and sure enough the full amount had been transferred and was showing as cleared in my account
I then had another call from him to say it should have gone through and he would call me in the week to arrange with me about the haulage firm coming to collect it, but he explained he doesn't know as yet when it is likely to be. We left it at that basically.
I have his name. (or so he says)
I have his mobile number.
He told me his business name (which is his surname) and it checks out on google, based in Falkirk.
He told me the name of the haulage company, it also checks out on google and is based in Falkirk.
The bank transfer was for the full amount we agreed (no less/no extra) and it shows up as a 'FPI' transfer and has his name attributed to it.
I made it clear on the phone that I wouldn't let the car go without photo I.D. of whoever was collecting it. (not a problem).
It all checks out rather more convincingly then the usual scams going round, so am I lucky and have a genuine buyer?
I will be going to the bank tomorrow to ask them about the security of the payment and whether they can confirm it won't be returned (I.E. they are happy it hasn't been transferred from a stolen account).
I will also call him back to confirm some details I forgot to earlier, like how he plans to sort the V5 as I WILL NOT post it to him, I will only post it directly to the DVLA. I would also like to send him a receipt by email, have him sign it and scan/email back to me saying sold as seen (should I put that as he hasn't actually seen it?).
EDIT: I will also call his company directly from the numbers on their website and see if it goes through to this chap and/or his wife. Likewise the haulage firm, I will call the numbers on their website and ask if they have had instruction from his business to collect the car. [/edit]
Anyway I am currently in the position where I have the car, the V5, the keys and the money. I haven't given out my full address (can't see the car from the road) so I am not concerned about it being stolen, it is still insured by me anyway.
Apart from the above is there anything else anyone can think of I can/should do to protect myself incase this all goes tits up?
Edited by Pet Troll on Tuesday 28th October 23:21
Ari said:
Seriously?
I know, if you have to ask etc. I'm normally the one who says 'seriously' on threads like these! This doesn't scream scam to me as much as others though as he isn't asking me to pay the haulage firm etc, has paid me in full (from seemingly his own bank account) but hasn't overpaid and asked for a partial refund. He spoke to me on the phone so he exists as more than nigerian scammer sending emails.
He implied it would be a good couple of weeks before the car is collected, plenty of time for the bank to discover a dodgy payment. If it was a hacked account wouldn't he want to collect ASAP before anyone reverses the payment?
[quote=Who me ?]Have a closer look at some of the TV programs warning about scams. One constant message is NEVER, EVER to accept payment by bank transfer. I can't remember why, but it's no 1 on the scammers hitlist.
[/quote]
I have watched a fair few, some with that annoying bald man, but don't recall being told not to accept payment by bank transfer, plenty saying not to pay by bank transfer. If you could find out why it's a bad idea then please let me know, the only comeback I can see doing a search is if the account is hacked then the bank can refund it. As said I will be going to the bank tomorrow and enquiring about this.
[/quote]
I have watched a fair few, some with that annoying bald man, but don't recall being told not to accept payment by bank transfer, plenty saying not to pay by bank transfer. If you could find out why it's a bad idea then please let me know, the only comeback I can see doing a search is if the account is hacked then the bank can refund it. As said I will be going to the bank tomorrow and enquiring about this.
MissChief said:
As a resident of Central Scotland I've often had to look very far afield to find a rare or unusual car. The car market in Scotland has far fewer 'PH' or unusual vehicles compared to The midlands and further south. A friend bought a mk.2 MR2 Turbo from a guy in Portsmouth after getting a friend to look at it to confirm it was indeed as described. Reckoned any similar car up here was easily £1.5k more due to low supply and high demand. He flew down and drove it back without issue. OP, what car is it? If it's something in a rare spec or an unusual car then I wouldn't mind. So far anyway it seems (and I say SEEMS!) above board. Usually there's extra money to arrange shipping and you lose that money.
It's odd because all the cars I seem to end up looking at seem to be in scotland a majority or the time, shonky old peugeots like 205 GTI and such like. (Don't mock me, it's an illness)!The car in question here is a 406 coupe 2.2 HDi, the 2.2 HDi's can be harder to find but are by no means rare or exciting/unusual. The price agreed (and paid) is £1100.
Well I went to the bank yesterday and they confirmed that the money had properly cleared into my account, that is was sent from cleared funds, that the name on the transfer is the name of the account holder (which matches the name the buyer gave me) and that it could only be reversed if the account had been hacked.
They also said they have new measures in place to protect me if it does get reversed due to it being a hacked account, they didn't elaborate on this as they said it was very new procedures and they hadn't used it so far.
I've emailed the guy and asked for a copy of photo ID with name and address so I can fill in the V5.
They also said they have new measures in place to protect me if it does get reversed due to it being a hacked account, they didn't elaborate on this as they said it was very new procedures and they hadn't used it so far.
I've emailed the guy and asked for a copy of photo ID with name and address so I can fill in the V5.
Joe5y said:
Every car that I have paid for in the last few years have been done by bank transfer. Normally, having seen the car, agreed a price then sat on the guys drive with my phone and transferred there and then. Waited for him to confirm that he has received and I'd be on my way with a new car.
I don't think paying for a car via bank transfer is a bad thing. In fact I'd be more wary about accepting cash.
Agreed, in that situation I wouldn't have the slightest problem. It's because he hasn't seen the car and isn't coming to fetch it but is sending a haulage firm to collect it that got my alarm bells ringing!I don't think paying for a car via bank transfer is a bad thing. In fact I'd be more wary about accepting cash.
I didn't want to mention any names but I've been told it's Falkirk Car Carriers coming to fetch it and they seem like a legit company.
I rang the 01324 number for 'his company' that I found on google and he answered so all seems legit, don't think there's anything else I need to do really.
I rang the 01324 number for 'his company' that I found on google and he answered so all seems legit, don't think there's anything else I need to do really.
fridaypassion said:
You can't hack bank accounts.
There is a lot of confidence fraud around where people are conned into doing bank transfers but the actual bank transactions are valid and cannot be recalled. You are not going to get a bloke in your lounge logging onto someone elses bank account to pay you for a car.
Actually they can be hacked, I am involved in an issue currently where someones bank account was hacked and money transferred out into someone elses account without the account holders knowledge of permission. But I can't go into details as it will no doubt end up in court.There is a lot of confidence fraud around where people are conned into doing bank transfers but the actual bank transactions are valid and cannot be recalled. You are not going to get a bloke in your lounge logging onto someone elses bank account to pay you for a car.
I am happy that this guy is legit now but I will keep this thread updated.
MissChief said:
Pet Troll said:
Actually they can be hacked, I am involved in an issue currently where someones bank account was hacked and money transferred out into someone elses account without the account holders knowledge or permission. But I can't go into details as it will no doubt end up in court.
I am happy that this guy is legit now but I will keep this thread updated.
Except that's not 'hacked' in the sense that someone managed to gain access without knowing the details. That's more likely someone was able to get the customers details via phishing or a key logger the account owner was unaware of?I am happy that this guy is legit now but I will keep this thread updated.
Back on topic: someone on here who lives in Falkirk pm'd me and said he had heard of the guy through work friends or similar and that he does exist. Also as mentioned earlier I rang the landline number on his business website and the correct person answered.
The only issue now is making sure I am protected against him claiming the vehicle is not as described. I have detailed all faults with the car and he said he was happy but I can't write a 'sold as seen' receipt as he hasn't seen it, nor can I get him to sign it as I won't ever meet him. Any suggestions as to what to do?
The car was collected today by Falkirk car carriers, no problems. I got a receipt to say they have collected it. I have filled in the V5 (and kept a photocopy) but left the new keepers signature blank and written a covering letter explaining that the new keeper wasn't present to sign it. Hopefully they will understand!
Rick101 said:
Aye, but the fact it's not signed means it's quite possible they won't process it.
I agree, however I don't feel comfortable fraudulently signing someone else's name so am going to take the chance and hope it reaches someone with a hint of common sense, unlikely I know!The DVLA must realise that people buy cars without being present to sign the document? It must happen fairly regularly and their own advice states not to post the V5 to the new keeper but to send it directly to them (DVLA).
Just to update:
I have had an acknowledgement slip back from the DVLA noting the change of keeper, no mention of the fact the new keeper hadn't signed the V5c.
So it would seem this all turned out to be ok in the end, the money is still in my bank and not heard anything from the new owner since the car was collected.
I have had an acknowledgement slip back from the DVLA noting the change of keeper, no mention of the fact the new keeper hadn't signed the V5c.
So it would seem this all turned out to be ok in the end, the money is still in my bank and not heard anything from the new owner since the car was collected.
rallycross said:
You do realise that anyone could sign the V5, making up any name they feel like at the time its not as if there is a crack team of experts sitting in Swansea checking every signature (the DVLA is not like the Matrix!)
I do realise that, it's like a cheque, no one checks the signature unless there is a problem. But if there was some kind of problem then I would like to be able to confidently say I have done things by the book and not get into any hot water about signing on someone elses behalf.It may sound overly cautious or anal but having had a whole heap of stress a few years ago about a DVLA 'fine' and threatening court action for 'not sending off a v5' (even thought I did) I do my best to keep everything squeaky clean with the DVLA.
Edited by Pet Troll on Friday 19th December 23:09
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