Ambulance and a red light

[Charlie Michael]

So this morning I found myself in a slightly difficult position. I'm at a set of lights, with a car next to me and a lane that filters for left-only. Bearing in mind that I'm already parked at the lights, an ambulance comes from behind me and wants to go through the junction that I, and the other car are at, blocking it's progress.

The Ambulance driver gets right behind me with sirens and lights flashing, he then proceeds to hold down his horn for me to move, at this point, I decide not to, due to the simple fact that I cannot go through a red light, I can't go back, as there's an Ambulance there, I can't go right, as there is a car there, and I can't move over to the left to either join the left filter lane or mount the curb as there is an island in the middle with a high curb that my car cannot mount.

I felt guilty that I was inconveniencing an Ambulance and obviously in all other situations, I would move over (there's a hospital near where I live so moving over is a regular thing round here), however, am I in the wrong for not moving forward? What is the legal standpoint for this situation, as I have heard stories before of other motorists receiving fines for going through a red light, hence my reluctance to go forward.

[Charlie Michael]

EnthusiastOwned said:

The ambulance was clearly in a rush and more than likely this was a life or death situation for someone. So you just sat there because you shouldn't go through a red light? Are you serious?

What's wrong with slowly nudging forward into the junction or moving right in front of the car to the side of you then reversing back to get out of the junction? Did you not notice or hear anything prior to pulling up? I find it hard to believe your only option was to just sit there.

Edited by EnthusiastOwned on Wednesday 26th November 10:24

Did you read my post? I said that I had already pulled up, handbrake on before I even heard the ambulance coming round a corner with it's blues on. The ambulance also parked close enough to my rear bumper that reversing was out of the question.

Of course I don't want to be the reason that someone lives or dies, however, I have never been in a situation where my only route out of the situation was to go through a red light. so I'm asking on here for opinions from those that have been in this situation before and straight from the horse's mouth of the emergency services drivers.

I will add that after 10 seconds or so, the lights changed and I pulled over past the junction to let him through. So hopefully it had no impact on the person they were heading for.

[Charlie Michael]

Obviously I expected that this question would divide opinions, however, surely this topic alone demonstrates two things; 1, that people don't expect any sympathy from the law for doing the morally correct thing and 2, I didn't know that the police can force you through a red light but and ambulance/fire engine cannot. Every day is a school day.

[Charlie Michael]

KTF said:

Charlie Michael said:

I didn't know that the police can force you through a red light but and ambulance/fire engine cannot. Every day is a school day.

They cant 'force' you, they have to 'direct' you i.e. gesture you through using hand signals.

If they are sitting behind you at a red light, lit up like a Christmas tree, the same rules apply as per the other services.

Sorry, wrong word used there.

[Charlie Michael]

EnthusiastOwned said:

I read your post and you said you were at some lights and an ambulance came from behind, nothing about pulling up before hearing/seeing the ambulance. Anyway, my main interpretation was that you had the option to move forward through a red light and you made the decision not to and you sounded quite obsequious in your writing tone. My opinion is that you should have made an effort to move through the red light, proceeding with caution; priority being safety and common sense > letting the ambulance pass > red light law > potential slapped hand and fine.

The ambulance driver smashing the horn down clearly meant he was saying 'get the **** out of the way'. He must have thought it was safe to do so judging by the training people are mentioning.

Here's where I say it:

"So this morning I found myself in a slightly difficult position. I'm at a set of lights, with a car next to me and a lane that filters for left-only. Bearing in mind that I'm already parked at the lights, an ambulance comes from behind me and wants to go through the junction that I, and the other car are at, blocking it's progress."

As has been said by several others, you should not go through a red light as the law currently makes doing so, an offence.

I agree that the law needs to account for a degree of common sense and if it allowed me to creep forward enough to allow the Ambulance to get round without consequence then of course I would.

He could very well be telling me to "move the **** out of the way", however, considering that I cannot. It matters not what he' screaming at me.

Also, please see the video posted earlier as to what the emergency services themselves believe is the right thing to do in my situation.

I too have been in an ambulance screaming in pain, I have also relied on an Ambulance getting to my location pronto, but I'd rather have an Ambulance get there in one piece a minute late, than not at all due to something happening along the way. As per this that happened near to me recently:

http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/sunbury...

[Charlie Michael]

surveyor said:

I don't see what that reports bring.... It certainly does not say that an ambulance forced a BMW through a red light that was then crashed into.

Ultimately if you do decude to go through a red light you do it carefully and make sure that other traffic has seen the ambulance and is giving way until you can get out the way. You don't just go haring across...

I feel like I'm going round in circles - If the law as it exists now, prohibits me from having the ability to use my brain to judge whether going through a junction on a red light to aid an emergency vehicle, otherwise suffer the consequences of a fine, then I will not go through a red light.

As has been stipulated by the vast majority of posters on this thread, the only emergency service that is allowed to direct you through a red light is the police.

That link I posted is there to merely demonstrate how some people react to sirens blaring and what panic can cause in a similar situation. Yes, it's not exactly what happened to me, but panic in drivers is a big thing. Some react well to stressful situations, others react poorly. That article shows what happens when someone doesn't react correctly.

Now, how does the Ambulance driver behind me this morning know that I am not going to panic with him behind me blaring with every noise at his disposal and cause another accident?

[Charlie Michael]

Challo said:

I think it depends on the junction, and what you can or cannot do. Most of the times its possible for you creep forward slightly across the white line allowing enough space for the Emergency Vehicle to get through.

If it was blind junction, and i was not able to see the other traffic then I would not have moved, and waited till the green light.

OP - Can you show us the junction in question?

The is the junction: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4107103,-0.29673...

I'm in the left lane of the right only lanes so effectively the middle lane.

As I said before, I can creep forward - but only past a red - which is where I felt unsure as to what to do.

[Charlie Michael]

surveyor said:

No obvious camera's. Plenty of you to creep forward and move to one side.

Not surprised he was a little pissed off. Obviously he should not be pressuring you, but he knows what he's heading to and you don't.

This morning I didn't have room to creep to the side - I tend to sit quite close to the curb when in a queue so as to allow motorbikes room in the middle to filter. The Ambulance had come from the left hand lane as it was less busy. So he's parked diagonally behind me straddling 2 lanes, but he's so far over to my nearside that I couldn't reverse and swing right.

Literally, my only option was to go forward. I will also add that the junction is very busy (normally a crowd standing in the middle (school kids) as there is a school to the left and a school straight over. They're all waiting for their respective lights to go green for them.

[Charlie Michael]

surveyor said:

Charlie Michael said:

surveyor said:

No obvious camera's. Plenty of you to creep forward and move to one side.

Not surprised he was a little pissed off. Obviously he should not be pressuring you, but he knows what he's heading to and you don't.

This morning I didn't have room to creep to the side - I tend to sit quite close to the curb when in a queue so as to allow motorbikes room in the middle to filter. The Ambulance had come from the left hand lane as it was less busy. So he's parked diagonally behind me straddling 2 lanes, but he's so far over to my nearside that I couldn't reverse and swing right.

Literally, my only option was to go forward. I will also add that the junction is very busy (normally a crowd standing in the middle (school kids) as there is a school to the left and a school straight over. They're all waiting for their respective lights to go green for them.

You've got plenty of room to move forward and pull to one side without even affecting the traffic flow into the junction.

Yes this is not legal, but given that there is no camera you have to make your own moral judgement as you do when you exceed the speed limit. Personally in the absence of a visible camera I'd have gone forward to let him by. Legally you were in the right, so if that suits you go for it.

The thing is that if I knew that I could creep forward, I would!

I don't want to impede progress made by any emergency vehicle. I guess ultimately, I'm being selfish in thinking of myself above someone in a much worse situation than mine, however, that was my default 'go-to' approach purely based on the fact that I don't want to get stung financially for years by risking getting a fine/points by doing what is the right thing. It pisses me off that there is no flexibility for common sense.

[Charlie Michael]

EnthusiastOwned said:

Anyway, back to the point - We still haven't found out whether it was actually clear (safe) to move forward or not, other than the red light; only that the OP chose not to. My argument here is from the angle that the OP could have safely moved forward and it was clear to do so, but chose not to because of the red light and the law.

It was clear for me to move forward through the red light.

You're also right that using common sense, I could've moved forward safely - However, seeing the responses from here. It appears that some others that have driven through the red light, have ended up suffering unfairly at the hands of the law.

Also, seeing as a couple of Paramedics have said that I have done the right thing. It is something that I will continue to do so in the future.

[Charlie Michael]

EnthusiastOwned said:

What if your delay results in someone dying? is that not worth the unfair hands of the law?

How exactly do you expect me to answer that?

As I said before, I don't want someone to die because I held up an ambulance. However, when the law is so strict, my first instinct is to look out for myself. I also at the time had in my head the stories of people getting fined/points on their licence and my gut response was to stay put to not risk that.

I don't think you'll change your opinion on what I did and I can't change what happened this morning now, so we'll have to agree to disagree.