996 GT3 (mk2) or TVR Sagaris
Discussion
Hi all,
New to pistonheads and was told about this site by a Tvr owning friend who is a member here and says it's a good site for Tvr info,
Was looking at getting a mk2 996 Gt3 but have recently driven a Sagaris and was blown away by how good it was and how much better it is than the Cerbera and Tuscan I tested, it really does put a massive smile on your face when you drive it and gives a real sense of occasion that is missing when you drive the Gt3,
Still my head says Gt3 but heart says Sagaris so has anybody owned both who can give me some long term ownership experience please,
Thanks
New to pistonheads and was told about this site by a Tvr owning friend who is a member here and says it's a good site for Tvr info,
Was looking at getting a mk2 996 Gt3 but have recently driven a Sagaris and was blown away by how good it was and how much better it is than the Cerbera and Tuscan I tested, it really does put a massive smile on your face when you drive it and gives a real sense of occasion that is missing when you drive the Gt3,
Still my head says Gt3 but heart says Sagaris so has anybody owned both who can give me some long term ownership experience please,
Thanks
V8RX7 said:
Since when did buying a toy have anything to with a sensible decision ?
You buy the one you WANT - the more you cannot justify it, the better the toy.
Maybe I'm getting old, though I felt 21 again driving the Sagaris.You buy the one you WANT - the more you cannot justify it, the better the toy.
Both great cars it's a difficult one, been reading posts on pistonheads trying to get an unbiased view on both cars.
ClarkPB said:
Don't own a Sagaris but own a 996.2 GT3 Club Sport - I bloody love it and it feels like an event every time I take it out - that's maybe partly down to the bucket seats/harness,fire extinguisher and roll cage which obviously you don't get in the comfort spec. Never once have I felt like it needs more power and the feedback you get through the wheel is like nothing else I've driven.
Not that it should matter really but both cars are slightly appreciating and it may be a case of being quite difficult to find a really good one.
You're right finding a really good one is difficult and owners of good ones aren't selling and also agree that the 996.2 Gt3 is a great drive but then so is the Sagaris.Not that it should matter really but both cars are slightly appreciating and it may be a case of being quite difficult to find a really good one.
How long have you owned yours and have you had any issues?
ClarkPB said:
Lotus E300S said:
You're right finding a really good one is difficult and owners of good ones aren't selling and also agree that the 996.2 Gt3 is a great drive but then so is the Sagaris.
How long have you owned yours and have you had any issues?
Had it almost exactly 2 years now and the only problem I have is that I don't get to drive it enough! How long have you owned yours and have you had any issues?
It's only done 14k miles and is mint underneath so I wouldn't expect any problems,it's been over serviced if anything.
Harris_I said:
Sorry, I can't comment on the Sagaris having never driven one, but I was intrigued by these two comments.
I've owned my 996 GT3 for over 10 years now, for several of which it was campaigned in sprint and wheel to wheel racing with Cup mods. Nothing else I've driven gets close to combining an authentic GT experience (as in the motorsport definition) and a road car. I've also raced a 996 Cup and the difference was marginal. The icing on the cake was race-proven reliability. The engine has only now been fully rebuilt.
You can get a more immediately visceral thrill from other cars but the downside is useability: my Caterham hardly ever ventures out onto the road. That's not to say the GT3 is not thrilling: it comes down to set up and the extent to which you wish to consider Cup or RS components.
It also requires a very particular driving technique to get the most out of it. I find most modern supercars too accessible and that kind of bores me. The GT3 took me years to work out and I'm still learning.
For me the GT3 is a head and heart decision. I could never sell mine.
Both great cars that put a smile on your face when driving it's just for me the Sagaris is just that bit more special probably because of its looks and uniqueness. I've owned my 996 GT3 for over 10 years now, for several of which it was campaigned in sprint and wheel to wheel racing with Cup mods. Nothing else I've driven gets close to combining an authentic GT experience (as in the motorsport definition) and a road car. I've also raced a 996 Cup and the difference was marginal. The icing on the cake was race-proven reliability. The engine has only now been fully rebuilt.
You can get a more immediately visceral thrill from other cars but the downside is useability: my Caterham hardly ever ventures out onto the road. That's not to say the GT3 is not thrilling: it comes down to set up and the extent to which you wish to consider Cup or RS components.
It also requires a very particular driving technique to get the most out of it. I find most modern supercars too accessible and that kind of bores me. The GT3 took me years to work out and I'm still learning.
For me the GT3 is a head and heart decision. I could never sell mine.
Darkslider said:
If I was spending that much money on a car, I would want it to make me stand there looking at it for five minutes after opening the garage door before even getting in it. And when I got to my destination and parked up, I want a car that I can't walk away from in the car park without turning around to look at it.
As good as they are, a 911 is never going to do that to anyone. I see too many of them (in various guises) on a day to day basis, while a very good car they lose that special something a rarer car has.
So for me it'd be the Sag, no question.
Nice colour, do you know what that specific colour is called?As good as they are, a 911 is never going to do that to anyone. I see too many of them (in various guises) on a day to day basis, while a very good car they lose that special something a rarer car has.
So for me it'd be the Sag, no question.
greggy50 said:
I would say the GT3 myself for sure think it would be a better driving experience and unlike most 911s the engine is bulletproof as well.
Love the sagaris but issue for me is you can get a T350 for £20k spent £8k on a 4.3 rebuild better suspension and for around £35k all in have a car that has more power and it as good to drive as a sag for near enough 1/2 the price.
Problem is the Sagaris is a big improvement over the older Tvr models and driving one of the older models after driving the Sagaris really brings this home, even though it looks mental it really is a pussycat to drive and could certainly be used every day and is very composed on the road, it really is as good as a 996 gt3 which did surprise me. I'm not sure if just better suspension on the older Tvr models is enough to get them to compete with the overall feel of a Sagaris.Love the sagaris but issue for me is you can get a T350 for £20k spent £8k on a 4.3 rebuild better suspension and for around £35k all in have a car that has more power and it as good to drive as a sag for near enough 1/2 the price.
Harris_I said:
I was at one time considering a Sagaris. But I realised I couldn't ask for anything more from the GT3 driving experience as the car is essentially the same design brief: a race car that took a wrong turn off the track and ended up on the road. (Except only one of them actually has motorsport provenance).
Everyone of course has different opinions. The world would be a boring place otherwise. But I am somewhat baffled as to the love for the Sagaris purely on looks and presence (and yes it does look amazing). Traditionally the debate was often 996 GT3 vs the F360 or the F430. Uusually it was a dead heat: those who wanted that indefinable presence went for the Ferrari, those for whom the driving experience mattered above all else went for the Porsche.
Personally if I were to pick a TVR it would be a Griffith 500 as it offers something materially different to the GT3. In fact I'm off to look at the classifieds...
I had a good drive in a 360 and even though it sounded wonderful it didn't drive as well as the Gt3 or Sagaris and it didn't feel that quick.Everyone of course has different opinions. The world would be a boring place otherwise. But I am somewhat baffled as to the love for the Sagaris purely on looks and presence (and yes it does look amazing). Traditionally the debate was often 996 GT3 vs the F360 or the F430. Uusually it was a dead heat: those who wanted that indefinable presence went for the Ferrari, those for whom the driving experience mattered above all else went for the Porsche.
Personally if I were to pick a TVR it would be a Griffith 500 as it offers something materially different to the GT3. In fact I'm off to look at the classifieds...
greggy50 said:
The T350 is only a couple of years older than a Sagaris I am sure if you spent £4/5k on some fancy suspension and dampers it could be made to drive just as nice as the Sagaris.
The chassis is the same, only the pick up points are extended outwards on the Sagaris. The wishbones are the same length if I recall correctly.
2004+ T350's had same size a/roll bars as Sagaris as well
Above information is from a bit of research I am not a geek!
But do believe with the 4.3 and better suspension a T350 could be just as nice as a Sag except quicker in a straight line...
Yes I have heard these 4.3-4.5 speed six engines are very good.The chassis is the same, only the pick up points are extended outwards on the Sagaris. The wishbones are the same length if I recall correctly.
2004+ T350's had same size a/roll bars as Sagaris as well
Above information is from a bit of research I am not a geek!
But do believe with the 4.3 and better suspension a T350 could be just as nice as a Sag except quicker in a straight line...
TA14 said:
If you look at the PH classifieds now the most expensive price is £60K and the cheapest is £46K and they're all from dealers so it's perhaps feasible that private sales would be £40K upwards? I'm saying that I don't think that you can do a full conversion for half the cost of a Sag and by the time you add in other bits (like the larger dia manifold, the rear spoiler, the front winglets...) your £35K is getting very close to a Sag value. 4.3 T350s seem to fetch below £30K.
I like the T350c style better but I don't think that a T350c modified to as close Sag spec as possible as a way of having a cheaper Sag makes sense. As is usually the case just buy the car that you like.
The 2 cheap Sags in the classified are damaged repaired with colour changes and I think one is a catD, I have looked at a few and any decent Sagaris is £55,000 plus.I like the T350c style better but I don't think that a T350c modified to as close Sag spec as possible as a way of having a cheaper Sag makes sense. As is usually the case just buy the car that you like.
Harris_I said:
dvs_dave said:
You could say exactly the same about the GT3. Why not buy a 5k 996 with a knackered engine and spend 30k on making it into a GT3 copy?
Plus a bit. The engine alone would be £40,000 plus fitting.£100,000 for a new Sagaris
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/t...
Is that how much they would cost now if still made?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/t...
Is that how much they would cost now if still made?
LaSource said:
I think it depends on how you intent to use the car.
If you are not going to track, use mainly for road use, taking the other half out on a Sunday, weekend hoon, etc...even I would be attracted to the Sagaris....and I am a die hard GT3 nut! It is a beautiful car.
On the other hand, if you want to be able to go home, jump in the seat, bomb it down to Spa or the Nurburgring, push it around the track at the edge of your ability, and then tear back to your home, park up, go to work...and not lose a penny (ok, man maths...track days do cost in maintenance especially if you like looking after your steed)...then there is no better car than the GT3! As others have said the learning journey is long and rewarding...with a vast degree of car setup and resulting driving behaviour. I love driving it on the road too.
However, reading this thread, I sense the Sagaris is for you. It would turn my head if you drove past in a Sagaris.
Plan is to track it so would like to think a Sagaris is up to a Spa and Nurburgring trip.If you are not going to track, use mainly for road use, taking the other half out on a Sunday, weekend hoon, etc...even I would be attracted to the Sagaris....and I am a die hard GT3 nut! It is a beautiful car.
On the other hand, if you want to be able to go home, jump in the seat, bomb it down to Spa or the Nurburgring, push it around the track at the edge of your ability, and then tear back to your home, park up, go to work...and not lose a penny (ok, man maths...track days do cost in maintenance especially if you like looking after your steed)...then there is no better car than the GT3! As others have said the learning journey is long and rewarding...with a vast degree of car setup and resulting driving behaviour. I love driving it on the road too.
However, reading this thread, I sense the Sagaris is for you. It would turn my head if you drove past in a Sagaris.
rigga said:
Lotus E300S said:
£100,000 for a new Sagaris
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/t...
Is that how much they would cost now if still made?
There has been much debate in the tvr section about this since the news that there might be a resurrection of the brand, and its generally recognized that should any car's be forthcoming, they would be nowhere near the price tags of the originals in the Wheeler and Smolenski tenure, could well be looking at towards the 100k mark for the type of car tvr are known for, but with modern driver aids and priced not to leave the company in financial turmoil.http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/t...
Is that how much they would cost now if still made?
Makes more sense to purchase one of the originals now.
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