I'm struggling.... Boxster S / Impreza STI / E46 M3?
Discussion
Honestly, I tend to tie myself in knots when it comes to deciding on which car next.
The backstory here is as follows:
Had a 2006 Hawkeye Impreza STi - Spec D. Absolutely loved it. Sold it due to very high miles making me nervous (the dreaded 2.5 engine) and a new job which involved driving lots of miles daily.
I have always regretted it. I took that car around Europe and to the 'Ring etc. and had a fantastic time with it. I moved onto an E46 330cd. I put all new suspension on it but had sold it within 6 months, losing a packet in the process. I just couldn't bond with it, despite having always liked BMWs and had a couple of E36s in the past.
After that I had an E60 535d which I liked a lot, but it wasn't dynamic enough really due to its size and the fact that it had a lot of tired suspension components that were past their best. I longed for another Impreza and bought a cheap WRX Wagon PPP. I've really loved having a Subaru again. There's just something about them that clicks with me, which is ironic as I never ever wanted one until I bought a classic Wagon many moons ago as a winter hack and for tip runs etc. That was the start of a bit of a love affair really.
I knew when I bought the WRX that it wouldn't be as good as my old STi, but I also knew that I was paying a much lower price as a result. And it has the added practicality you get with a wagon. I’ve spent a bit of money on it, put a Spec C quick steering rack on it and a couple of other bits like Brembo brakes etc. But I’ve reached the point where I want more and if I spend the money it needs on new suspension, a remap, a new turbo etc. I won’t be far off STi money. We did the Goodwood track day recently and I decided after that that the narrower tracked Wagon was never going to be as good for track days and the like as a wide track Blobeye or Hawkeye STi. But as always when it comes to changing cars, I tend to look at what else I could buy also and the M3 is a bit of a bucket list car for me. Unfortunately it is also a polar opposite of the Subarus that I love. I also didn’t bond with my E46 330cd, but I’m sure that was as much because of the diesel lump as anything else. Looks wise, it was gorgeous. It handled well too. It just felt like something was….. missing.
The other alternative is a Boxster. I like them, but I am concerned that the original Boxster S won’t feel quick enough. If I buy an STi I am getting a sub 5 seconds 0-60 car. Not the be all and end all of the total driving experience, granted, but a good indicator of the power and pace on offer. The M3 is very close to this too.
I’ve gone on a fair bit now, but I am very interested in hearing about any similar dilemmas anyone may have had, what they ended up doing and opinions on the cars etc.
If I buy an Impreza then I have to choose between wide track 2.0 Blobeye, 2.5 Hawkeye or 2.5 hatch. If I buy a 2.5 I have to be prepared to spend £2.5k at some point on a rebuild if and when the engine hits trouble. But the torque of the 2.5 is wonderful. Great low down grunt. If I buy a Boxster, I am not going to have as quick a car on paper, but also having had many MR2s I am a fan of mid engined cars. Could be good on track? Finally, if I buy an M3 it will be a 2003 onwards facelift. Potentially more suited to track driving than an Impreza? Also tempted to go SMG seeing as it won’t be used in traffic/around town etc.
Sorry for the long ramble…
The backstory here is as follows:
Had a 2006 Hawkeye Impreza STi - Spec D. Absolutely loved it. Sold it due to very high miles making me nervous (the dreaded 2.5 engine) and a new job which involved driving lots of miles daily.
I have always regretted it. I took that car around Europe and to the 'Ring etc. and had a fantastic time with it. I moved onto an E46 330cd. I put all new suspension on it but had sold it within 6 months, losing a packet in the process. I just couldn't bond with it, despite having always liked BMWs and had a couple of E36s in the past.
After that I had an E60 535d which I liked a lot, but it wasn't dynamic enough really due to its size and the fact that it had a lot of tired suspension components that were past their best. I longed for another Impreza and bought a cheap WRX Wagon PPP. I've really loved having a Subaru again. There's just something about them that clicks with me, which is ironic as I never ever wanted one until I bought a classic Wagon many moons ago as a winter hack and for tip runs etc. That was the start of a bit of a love affair really.
I knew when I bought the WRX that it wouldn't be as good as my old STi, but I also knew that I was paying a much lower price as a result. And it has the added practicality you get with a wagon. I’ve spent a bit of money on it, put a Spec C quick steering rack on it and a couple of other bits like Brembo brakes etc. But I’ve reached the point where I want more and if I spend the money it needs on new suspension, a remap, a new turbo etc. I won’t be far off STi money. We did the Goodwood track day recently and I decided after that that the narrower tracked Wagon was never going to be as good for track days and the like as a wide track Blobeye or Hawkeye STi. But as always when it comes to changing cars, I tend to look at what else I could buy also and the M3 is a bit of a bucket list car for me. Unfortunately it is also a polar opposite of the Subarus that I love. I also didn’t bond with my E46 330cd, but I’m sure that was as much because of the diesel lump as anything else. Looks wise, it was gorgeous. It handled well too. It just felt like something was….. missing.
The other alternative is a Boxster. I like them, but I am concerned that the original Boxster S won’t feel quick enough. If I buy an STi I am getting a sub 5 seconds 0-60 car. Not the be all and end all of the total driving experience, granted, but a good indicator of the power and pace on offer. The M3 is very close to this too.
I’ve gone on a fair bit now, but I am very interested in hearing about any similar dilemmas anyone may have had, what they ended up doing and opinions on the cars etc.
If I buy an Impreza then I have to choose between wide track 2.0 Blobeye, 2.5 Hawkeye or 2.5 hatch. If I buy a 2.5 I have to be prepared to spend £2.5k at some point on a rebuild if and when the engine hits trouble. But the torque of the 2.5 is wonderful. Great low down grunt. If I buy a Boxster, I am not going to have as quick a car on paper, but also having had many MR2s I am a fan of mid engined cars. Could be good on track? Finally, if I buy an M3 it will be a 2003 onwards facelift. Potentially more suited to track driving than an Impreza? Also tempted to go SMG seeing as it won’t be used in traffic/around town etc.
Sorry for the long ramble…
The way it feels IS very important. For what it's worth, I've still got an MR2 roadster on the drive, and when I take that out I always enjoy it, despite the fact that it's slower than the Subaru.
However, it's that lack of power that leaves it feeling like the whole experience is missing something vital.
However, it's that lack of power that leaves it feeling like the whole experience is missing something vital.
Shaoxter said:
MR2 Turbo? 
I don't want to go back. I've had 3! Enjoyed them, but too many "old car" issues and the sills are rotten on most of them and a nightmare to get sorted well. I modded my last one so much that starting again from scratch would be pretty soul destroying!And yes, Impreza prices have gone insane.
Put it this way, my 2006 Hawkeye STi Spec D cost me £5500 from a dealer. Granted, it had high miles, but I can't find another for under £7k now. Wide track Blobeyes are almost all £8k + but for the odd one here and there.
Thing is, I know that I love driving Subarus and they are pretty balistic cars. But I don't want to not experience other cars and there will always be lots of Imprezas around to choose from when I decide to come back, should I plump for one of the others.
danjama said:
Stick a V6 in your MR roadster!
It's a LOT of hassle and expense to do so. I was going to put a 2ZZ into it but in all honesty, I can't really be bothered when my Mrs finds the car so difficult to get on with. She's quite tall, and requires a degree of comfort due to a chronic muscle/joint pain condition. She does love the Subarus though and she's also keen to try an M3 and/or Boxster so she'll be supportive of whichever choice I make.
I worry that I will have to go test drive a Boxster and an M3 but I absolutely hate having to go and ask for a test drive of something that I don't know if I want yet. Probably sounds daft, but there we are.
The way a car feels IS important to me, but equally, if it isn't quick enough then it will irritate me.
Part of me thinks that the Subaru would be a better all round bet than the M3, but I've had a few Subarus and never had an M3. Plus the SMG and RWD could make for a fantastic occaisional track day tool as well as not leaving my Mrs in agony during/after a long Euro trip?
Poopipe said:
Im not sure its possible to "replace" a scooby. They really get under your skin somehow
Can you stretch to a spec c/ra-r or one of the other more "focused" models?
Failing that the obvious choice is an evo.
The boxster will feel slow as s
te if a 911 is anything to go by and i suspect the m3 will feel a bit fat and sterile (certainly the case with non-m sporty 3 series)
Very true. I was left with a longing that wasn't fulfilled again until I bought another!Can you stretch to a spec c/ra-r or one of the other more "focused" models?
Failing that the obvious choice is an evo.
The boxster will feel slow as s
te if a 911 is anything to go by and i suspect the m3 will feel a bit fat and sterile (certainly the case with non-m sporty 3 series)Evo is an interesting option and I have thought about it, but I know a hell of a lot about Subarus (and have a trusted specialist) and I know zilch about Evos other than having the impression that they need a service every two minutes! It's definitely something I would look at though if I did decide "right that's it, I am going to get something else instead".
I've thought about a Spec C but in all honesty, the tiny fuel tank and the complete lack of any comfort or sound deadening would probably make it too hardcore for my needs. If it was purely a track tool, it would be perfect. That's not going to be the case though.
*Al* said:
I have a Z4 coupe 3.0 Si with a couple of suspension mods, fantastic car imo.
I test drove one of these before buying the 535D. It was just a bit... meh. I liked it, and as I said to my Mrs it was a nice car and I did like it, but it didn't blow me away. It was the steering that really killed it for me. I wanted to love it but just didn't.I decided that if I was going to live with electric PAS then I was going to buy the more practical car and got the 5er.
ryanthescot said:
what about a z3m coupe? not too dissimilar to an m3 - smaller and shouldn't depreciate as quickly (they could well be above your budget right enough)
They are well out of budget now. Prices are soaring on the bloody things. I saw a Z3M roadster on AT the other day that the seller thinks they are going to get £19k for. Must have looked at the Breadvan and thought "Hell, it's the same car, I'm onto a winner here!".Exige sounds fun 
I like how the MR2 roadster drives, it's just not powerful enough. I tend to adapt driving style to suit. In the roadster I take the car right through the rev range, but in the Impreza I tend to change gear much earlier.
I'd also like to get some proper track tuition and really learn to drive a car properly. I don't want the car to do things for me, if that makes sense? I want to be quick on track because I've honed my talent.
I like how the MR2 roadster drives, it's just not powerful enough. I tend to adapt driving style to suit. In the roadster I take the car right through the rev range, but in the Impreza I tend to change gear much earlier.
I'd also like to get some proper track tuition and really learn to drive a car properly. I don't want the car to do things for me, if that makes sense? I want to be quick on track because I've honed my talent.
mcelliott said:
Ran a bug eye station wagon (PPP) from new for13 years - absolutely loved it, fabulous car, could not fault it - alongside an E46 M3. Absolutely love it, fabulous car. Sorry I can't be of more help!
Edit - ok the noise for the Subaru, as you probably know, is fantastic! But the M3, THAT ENGINE!
Very helpful Edit - ok the noise for the Subaru, as you probably know, is fantastic! But the M3, THAT ENGINE!
Around 4pm I was convinced an SMG M3 was the car. Sufficiently special feeling etc. and one ticked off the list.
Now I've just got through looking at more Impreza and love them again
Actually seen a Hawkeye at a price that could allow £2k put aside towards forged pistons....
TheJimi said:
Did you get my email?
Not that I have seen, let me check properly.Welshbeef said:
Surely the question should be which driven wheel configuration do you prefer be the first question - AWD is very different to RWD and mid engined is very different to front engines rwd.
After that surely its practicality what do you need or not need
Then what type of engine forced induction or N/A
Then looks
Then price to buy plus ongoing running costs.
3 very different cars none are direct competitors on anything apart from cost to buy and even then that's stretching it.
For a lot of people that's probably the case. Me, however, I like RWD and I like permanent AWD, but each has its own rewarding qualities. There's not much like a really well balanced RWD car on the right road in the right conditions. That goes for both front and mid engined, but obviously that road and those conditions may differ slightly. Same principle applies though.After that surely its practicality what do you need or not need
Then what type of engine forced induction or N/A
Then looks
Then price to buy plus ongoing running costs.
3 very different cars none are direct competitors on anything apart from cost to buy and even then that's stretching it.
AWD, that can also be great and it has its own merits. I do much prefer the rear biased AWD of the STIs over the 50/50 split that my WRX has. People add stiffer anti roll bars and the like to alter the characteristics of the car and that's fine, but it's all a bit... artificial?
Funnily enough, our 3 current cars are an R170 SLK, an MR2 Roadster and the Impreza. All three are different layouts and all 3 have their upsides, although the whacky steering of the SLK isn't one of them
Cards on the table: I plan on financing the car, putting down around £3k cash. Because of that I am reluctant to really spend more than I have stated. I know finance is a dirty word here!
But I can afford to finance and to still put money aside for maintenance etc. so I don't personally see a problem with that. It's funny, I'm sat here wearing my PH 50 years of 911 t-shirt right now..... If I spent over £12k - £14k then I'd be buying one of those and realising a bit of a dream, absolutely no question.
Sooooo..... that's the wildcard option. Play the long game, save a few more ££££, buy with a bigger budget. It does mean I will have to spend around a grand on the current car though to get it up to scratch (shocks, springs ARBs) and keep myself content with the power level.
paulmoonraker said:
TheJimi said:
He will the first big bill it chucks at him 
I would hope the homework has been done. They are expensive cars to maintain.I'm handy enough with the spanners myself but would need to make a judgement call on the car itself to decide whether to do certain jobs myself or pay someone else and have a nice receipt to put in the file....
TheAngryDog said:
Alot of the jobs on the M3 can be done yourself. Its just the parts that can be expensive. Rear discs are £237 a pair, fronts are around £300 a pair.
Yeah my previous E46 was fairly easy to work on. I replaced the RTABs, the FCABs and the lower arms, springs, shocks, top mounts, steering rack ends, track rods etc. Running Brembos on the Impreza so the discs and pads on that can be a little bit costly.
I'll have to find out the dos and don'ts for the M3 with things like upgrading the anti roll bars and that sort of thing.
Had a fantastic day out yesterday in the Yorkshire Dales with the Impreza and its winter tyres!
The Mrs has said that we should keep the Subaru.... and sell the SLK and the MR2 instead.
So we'll run the Impreza and an M3. Win-win! Might not be an STi but will go nicely alongside the BMW when we get one.
The Mrs has said that we should keep the Subaru.... and sell the SLK and the MR2 instead.
So we'll run the Impreza and an M3. Win-win! Might not be an STi but will go nicely alongside the BMW when we get one.
I think I may be having a change of heart on the M3. Was all set to go see one at the weekend but I've been reading up on the boot floor/subframe issue and it's put the frighteners on me!
It sounds as though it will likely happen to most E46s at some point simply because it's an inherent design fault. Couple that with the cost to repair as almost all are outside of the ten year goodwill period and it's a big thing to consider.
Facelift 986 Boxster is starting to look very appealing again....
It sounds as though it will likely happen to most E46s at some point simply because it's an inherent design fault. Couple that with the cost to repair as almost all are outside of the ten year goodwill period and it's a big thing to consider.
Facelift 986 Boxster is starting to look very appealing again....
No I agree, and I know enough these days to be prepared for big bills. But the boot floor thing in the M3 is now really bothering me.
So I'm weighing it up and giving it some thought. I'm a pretty impulsive person and whatever I buy, I will be wondering afterwards if I should have bought the other. That's just my nature and something that I have learned to come to terms with.
I'm torn really between going for the legendary, big power, amazing engined M3 but having to worry about the boot floor or going for the slightly slower but still adequate baby Porsche with the drop top and amazing soundtrack and handling, which will probably beat an M3 around a twisty track.
One thing I do know now is that should I go for an M3, I will not be buying one that hasn't had the repair or a very recent inspection and clean bill of health.
Big money services etc. are fine. It's something you expect when you buy a performance car. Cracking boot floors are not fine!
So I'm weighing it up and giving it some thought. I'm a pretty impulsive person and whatever I buy, I will be wondering afterwards if I should have bought the other. That's just my nature and something that I have learned to come to terms with.
I'm torn really between going for the legendary, big power, amazing engined M3 but having to worry about the boot floor or going for the slightly slower but still adequate baby Porsche with the drop top and amazing soundtrack and handling, which will probably beat an M3 around a twisty track.
One thing I do know now is that should I go for an M3, I will not be buying one that hasn't had the repair or a very recent inspection and clean bill of health.
Big money services etc. are fine. It's something you expect when you buy a performance car. Cracking boot floors are not fine!
Edited by TroubledSoul on Monday 5th January 15:06
Yeah of course they can. Like I say, I'm fine with that. I just think the boot floor thing is pretty ridiculous and if you have it inspected and it's fine, how do you know when to have it inspected next? It's unlikely to last forever.
Do you pay somebody to reinforce it, or do you keep getting it inspected yearly?
On the flipside of that, I rarely keep cars longer than a year anyway, but if I really bonded with something special, I wouldn't want to feel like I have to move it on before it goes wrong.
FFS. If I don't buy an E46 M3 now then I most likely never will. What a predicament.
Boxster S, Bose sounds, flat 6, top down.... has to be nice, right?
I think I'm going to have to drive both and see if either grabs me significantly more than the other before making a final decision.
I drove my MR2 at the weekend and thought "I'm going to miss this...."
I don't like having to choose
Do you pay somebody to reinforce it, or do you keep getting it inspected yearly?
On the flipside of that, I rarely keep cars longer than a year anyway, but if I really bonded with something special, I wouldn't want to feel like I have to move it on before it goes wrong.
FFS. If I don't buy an E46 M3 now then I most likely never will. What a predicament.
Boxster S, Bose sounds, flat 6, top down.... has to be nice, right?
I think I'm going to have to drive both and see if either grabs me significantly more than the other before making a final decision.
I drove my MR2 at the weekend and thought "I'm going to miss this...."
I don't like having to choose
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